Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[whosetosay...]

"Most scholars believe that the Deuteronomic Code was composed during the late monarchic period, around the time of King Josiah (late 7th century BCE), although some scholars have argued for a later date, either during the Babylonian captivity (597–539 BCE) or during the Persian period (539–332 BCE)."


The bible is mythology and the dates cannot be confirmed. If we look at archeology we get the earliest possible dates of any mention of Israelites at 1200 BC.
The Deuteronical text was likely reworked during the Persian period.

I suggest you post proof or concede like many others you are uttering that which you have learned from others.
It is 2,000 years since Christ. How did time change after he died and rose from the dead.. The archaeological settings of key events his book A treasury of bible pictures, There are discoveries and he talks about the settings of key events. What we cannot do is write off history and key events because they are religious,

Archeologist William Denver:
"
Evidence of the early Israelites
The Bible chronology puts Moses much later in time, around 1450 B.C.E. Is there archeological evidence for Moses and the mass exodus of hundreds of thousands of Israelites described in the Bible?
We have no direct archeological evidence. "Moses" is an Egyptian name. Some of the other names in the narratives are Egyptian, and there are genuine Egyptian elements. But no one has found a text or an artifact in Egypt itself or even in the Sinai that has any direct connection. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. But I think it does mean what happened was rather more modest. And the biblical writers have enlarged the story.


Is there mention of the Israelites anywhere in ancient Egyptian records?
No Egyptian text mentions the Israelites except the famous inscription of Merneptah dated to about 1206 B.C.E. But those Israelites were in Canaan; they are not in Egypt, and nothing is said about them escaping from Egypt."

We also know the Israelites emerged from the Canaanite society which is left out of biblical text.

If you study the Egyptians you will find they were selective on the parts of History they recorded.
When they failed or lost they had a loss of memory when writing history.
Doesn't seem unusual that an account happening in the bible was in a place that existed but somehow you believe it to be a myth?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

If you study the Egyptians you will find they were selective on the parts of History they recorded.
When they failed or lost they had a loss of memory when writing history.

You're going to have to do better than that. Why not mention the fact that archeologists have not found a scintilla of evidence 3 million Hebrews ever set foot in the Sinai, much less wandered in it for 40 years.

After a century of excavations trying to prove the ancient accounts true, archeologists say there is NO conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, were ever enslaved, ever wandered in the Sinai wilderness for 40 years or ever conquered the land of Canaan under Joshua’s leadership.

Doubting the Story of Exodus

 

[joelr]

I suggest you post proof or concede like many others you are uttering that which you have learned from others.
It is 2,000 years since Christ. How did time change after he died and rose from the dead.. The archaeological settings of key events his book A treasury of bible pictures, There are discoveries and he talks about the settings of key events. What we cannot do is write off history and key events because they are religious,

Your strawman shows you don't even believe what you say. This isn't information from "others". This is the consensus of Christian scholarship.
archeology shows most biblical narratives are things that happened on a much smaller scale and were enlarged by writers or are myths that never happened. The 2 creation stories are closely paralleled with 2 Mesopotamian creation myths as is Noah's Ark. So we know those are likely borrowed stories.
There is no evidence of Exodus but rather evidence the early Israelites emerged from Canaanite culture. It's a national foundation myth as described by scholar carol Meyers here: NOVA | The Bible's Buried Secrets | Moses and the Exodus | PBS

I don't really know what you are talking about regarding history changing? The OT was never history and wasn't intended to be history. There wasn't even a word for history?

If you study the Egyptians you will find they were selective on the parts of History they recorded.
When they failed or lost they had a loss of memory when writing history.
Doesn't seem unusual that an account happening in the bible was in a place that existed but somehow you believe it to be a myth?

Most mythology is written in a place that existed in the real world. Hindu and Greek myths take place in real places and wars.
We know the OT is myth because everything is borrowed mythology. They didn't even have an afterlife beyond wandering around in Sheol and then when occupied by Persians and Greeks they learned about souls who belong in a place called heaven and all of those concepts we now associate with religion. This is more borrowed myth.

A recent paper I just read on the Israelite religion explains they took Gods from the Canaanites and formed their own mythology.
Israelite Religion

"The tripartite hierarchy of the divine world—Yahweh,the Sons of God or Heavenly Host, and the angels—derives from the earlier structure of Canaanite religion."

"On the levelof high god, El seems to have merged with Yahweh, who ab-sorbs El’s name and has many of his attributes. Asherah inIsraelite religion becomes the name of a sacred pole or treein local Yahwistic shrines, although there are hints in some texts that she was worshiped as a goddess in some times and places."

 

[joelr]

When you look at the sky, don't you wonder, who made this? The creation declares the glory of God.

We know the science behind atmosphere formation. As well as solar systems and galaxies.
Even if some deity creates universes the mythical stories are still just stories.

People who don't believe in the Bible saying the same thing doesn't put the Bible on the same level as those books. I think that probably most of these legends and beliefs come from the fact that everyone had a common beginning and at one time everyone knew God. These accounts were passed down and developed (and became corrupted in some ways) into the stories and traditions that these cultures have today. I think it is just the nature of man to forget and fall away from the truth. I do think the messianic expectation was there from the very beginning ever since the fall, because I think they realized, perhaps more than most people think, that they needed a redeemer in order to be restored to the fellowship and oneness with God that was experienced in Eden. So I don't think it's surprising that that concept was there, people just took it and it became changed into various forms as the cultures developed, and even though they may have held onto the idea, the addition of other gods or pagan practices corrupted it, so that's I think why the gospel was needed, to bring people back to seeking God.

A common apologetics to account for radically different concepts and ideas about Gods. For centuries Jewish high priests knew death meant nothing more than wandering around Sheol. Then they encounter far better myths and suddenly they are preaching the same.
There is no doubt these are just stories. The savior myths only spread around the Mediterranean. It isn't a universal concept. But made-up stories are a universal concept and all religions are made up.
All religions had gospels so saying the gospels were "needed" makes no sense. Most of the basic tenants of behavior like non-judgment and the golden rule was already being taught by Judaism as well as every other cult.
None of that makes the myths real.

This paper explains how the Canaanite religions was used as a model to create the Israelite religion:
"The tripartite hierarchy of the divine world—Yahweh,the Sons of God or Heavenly Host, and the angels—derives from the earlier structure of Canaanite religion."
Israelite Religion

But there is still zero evidence for any supernatural story but vast evidence that it was written to be a mythology to inspire and teach lessons.



"
On the levelof high god, El seems to have merged with Yahweh, who ab-sorbs El’s name and has many of his attributes. Asherah inIsraelite religion becomes the name of a sacred pole or treein local Yahwistic shrines, although there are hints in sometexts that she was worshiped as a goddess in some times andplaces. The second tier of deities, the Children of El
have the same title in Israelite religion (Sons of God;
elohim),
but in Israelite religion have been de-moted into relatively powerless beings. Resheph, for exam-ple, rather than an independent god of war and disease,seems to become a personification of disease, accompanying Yahweh’s awesome march into battle .
Yahweh re-places or absorbs the functions of all of the active gods of thepantheon, hence like El, he is the beneficent patriarch and judge; like Baal, he is the divine warrior; and like Asherahand her daughters, he dispenses “blessings of breast and womb”
. Israelite religion, like Israel’s languageand culture, is a child of the Canaanite or West Semitic world.

 

[joelr]

66 books by 40 different authors (kings, doctors, priests, fishermen, tax collectors, farmers, shepherds & more...), written in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents, over a period of 1,500 years. (Most of the authors never met each other). Yet one constant theme, and mathematically cohesive. God did it this way to prove it's integrated message system is from outside our time domain. Then in 1947 all but one of the scrolls of the Old Testament was found in a cave in Israel dating to 100BC to prove to a 'scientific' and doubting generation that the text has remain unchanged. Evidence that demands a verdict by every person who has heard of it.

Same with Hindu scriptures except they are older.
The authors didn't need to meet, they read the myths and expanded on them. We already know the beginning of scripture is taken from Mesopotamian myths. The introduction of souls, afterlife, God vs Satan, resurrection for everyone at the end of the world were nowhere to be found in this religion for centuries. Then when they learn of it from invading countries they add it to their stories and re-work their theology.

Christian scholarship has long since ben admitting the synooptic gospels are sourced from Mark. The new editions of the NIV bible even state this in the intro.

As Bible.com explains the synoptic problem has been solved by realizing the other gospels are copied from Mark. There is nothing supernatural here. Just myths written about myths.
The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org

hen in 1947 all but one of the scrolls of the Old Testament was found in a cave in Israel dating to 100BC to prove to a 'scientific' and doubting generation that the text has remain unchanged. Evidence that demands a verdict by every person who has heard of it.

Except you fell for the lie the church told you. If you actually stop being brainwashed and read what scholars have to say you will see this is not exactly true.
The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels covers much of this.
Some of the OT was found in this collection. SO? The OT is known to be a myth.
What we did learn was that in the 2nd century there were just as many gnostic sects, many with radically different ideas about Jesus and God. They were beaten out by Bishops who wanted themselves to be the only people who could teach scripture. Yes, by corruption. You will not lean the full truth listening to bias people.
Go right ahead, read all the lost gospel text.

"The apocryphal gospels, discovered by a farmer in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt, are here explained in the context of late second-century RC church history. Gnostic (gnosis, Gk: knowledge) Christians did not believe that human intermediaries (priests, etc.) were necessary for an individual to find God. For the gnostics, enlightenment was an entirely inward and self-determined process. Gnostic Christians believed that Jesus was not divine but an ordinary man with an extraordinary message. They did not believe in the resurrection of the flesh. They did not believe in the eucharist, nor did they have any eschatalogical beliefs. They believed in a higher supreme god and a lower creator god, Yahweh, the Jewish god, who maliciously made man in his image and demanded to be worshipped by him. They believed that "secret wisdom" was handed down to the Apostles by Jesus, esoteric knowledge which was not vouchsafed to ordinary believers but only to mature ones. The gnostics believed that through their way of knowing God they were able to exceed the knowledge of the Apostles. There is language in the New Testament to support this idea of Jesus's secret wisdom. For the masses Jesus had only parables, exoteric knowledge appropriate to the less spiritually advanced. Late in the book some of the techniques for achieving gnosis are reviewed and they are surprisingly close to those used by Buddhists. Though Buddhists are nontheistic what they and the gnostics do has uncanny similarities. Elaine Pagels shows us that there was no early Christian golden age. That is to say, an age that had uniform teachings accepted by all. Instead the teachings were far more diverse than they are today, and highly contentious. Moreover, the RC church could have developed radically differently if some of these writings had been accepted, instead of being purged, as they were, so that someone, perhaps a monk belonging to a monastery near Nag Hammadi, buried them in a jar under the sand 1,600 years ago. "

Psalm 23:6 mentions the afterlife in the Old Testament and it was written before the Persian invasion. "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."

It's a metaphor. They had no heaven for people in Judaism. So much so that during the 2nd temple period many religious leaders insisted the new ideas about heaven and souls was Hellenistic sacreligious garbage (probably influenced by Satan). But the new myths won out because they were more attractive to followers.

"The speaker says that the Lord (God) is like a shepherd to him. This sets up an explicit metaphor in which humanity, or at least the community of believers, is a flock of sheep tended by God. ... Instead, he means that with God as his protector, he won't lack anything he needs."

If yoiu study the cosmology of the time they believed in 7 heavens, all in outer space. The 7th was where God and the stars dwelled. Not people.

 

[Skywalker]

Same with Hindu scriptures except they are older.
The authors didn't need to meet, they read the myths and expanded on them. We already know the beginning of scripture is taken from Mesopotamian myths. The introduction of souls, afterlife, God vs Satan, resurrection for everyone at the end of the world were nowhere to be found in this religion for centuries. Then when they learn of it from invading countries they add it to their stories and re-work their theology.

Christian scholarship has long since ben admitting the synooptic gospels are sourced from Mark. The new editions of the NIV bible even state this in the intro.

As Bible.com explains the synoptic problem has been solved by realizing the other gospels are copied from Mark. There is nothing supernatural here. Just myths written about myths.
The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org



Except you fell for the lie the church told you. If you actually stop being brainwashed and read what scholars have to say you will see this is not exactly true.
The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels covers much of this.
Some of the OT was found in this collection. SO? The OT is known to be a myth.
What we did learn was that in the 2nd century there were just as many gnostic sects, many with radically different ideas about Jesus and God. They were beaten out by Bishops who wanted themselves to be the only people who could teach scripture. Yes, by corruption. You will not lean the full truth listening to bias people.
Go right ahead, read all the lost gospel text.

"The apocryphal gospels, discovered by a farmer in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt, are here explained in the context of late second-century RC church history. Gnostic (gnosis, Gk: knowledge) Christians did not believe that human intermediaries (priests, etc.) were necessary for an individual to find God. For the gnostics, enlightenment was an entirely inward and self-determined process. Gnostic Christians believed that Jesus was not divine but an ordinary man with an extraordinary message. They did not believe in the resurrection of the flesh. They did not believe in the eucharist, nor did they have any eschatalogical beliefs. They believed in a higher supreme god and a lower creator god, Yahweh, the Jewish god, who maliciously made man in his image and demanded to be worshipped by him. They believed that "secret wisdom" was handed down to the Apostles by Jesus, esoteric knowledge which was not vouchsafed to ordinary believers but only to mature ones. The gnostics believed that through their way of knowing God they were able to exceed the knowledge of the Apostles. There is language in the New Testament to support this idea of Jesus's secret wisdom. For the masses Jesus had only parables, exoteric knowledge appropriate to the less spiritually advanced. Late in the book some of the techniques for achieving gnosis are reviewed and they are surprisingly close to those used by Buddhists. Though Buddhists are nontheistic what they and the gnostics do has uncanny similarities. Elaine Pagels shows us that there was no early Christian golden age. That is to say, an age that had uniform teachings accepted by all. Instead the teachings were far more diverse than they are today, and highly contentious. Moreover, the RC church could have developed radically differently if some of these writings had been accepted, instead of being purged, as they were, so that someone, perhaps a monk belonging to a monastery near Nag Hammadi, buried them in a jar under the sand 1,600 years ago. "




It's a metaphor. They had no heaven for people in Judaism. So much so that during the 2nd temple period many religious leaders insisted the new ideas about heaven and souls was Hellenistic sacreligious garbage (probably influenced by Satan). But the new myths won out because they were more attractive to followers.

"The speaker says that the Lord (God) is like a shepherd to him. This sets up an explicit metaphor in which humanity, or at least the community of believers, is a flock of sheep tended by God. ... Instead, he means that with God as his protector, he won't lack anything he needs."

If yoiu study the cosmology of the time they believed in 7 heavens, all in outer space. The 7th was where God and the stars dwelled. Not people.

The context of Psalm 23:6 is about heaven. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. Similarities in beliefs between the Bible and Hellinistic beliefs hint it is just the nature of man to forget and fall away from the truth. I do think the messianic expectation was there from the very beginning ever since the fall, because I think they realized, perhaps more than most people think, that they needed a redeemer in order to be restored to the fellowship and oneness with God that was experienced in Eden. So I don't think it's surprising that that concept was there, people just took it and it became changed into various forms as the cultures developed, and even though they may have held onto the idea, the addition of other gods or pagan practices corrupted it, so that's I think why the gospel was needed, to bring people back to God.

Just because the doctrine of heaven wasn't invented officially during Old Testament times doesn't mean it's wasn't in the scriptures. Regarding the religious leaders not believing in heaven. we can't trust what the clergy say blindly, the only one we can really trust is God. Just because they didn't believe in heaven and souls doesn't mean those concepts dont exist or aren't in the scriptures.

God being like a shepherd in Psalm 23:6 doesn't take away from the concept of heaven is mentioned in that verse.

 

[joelr]

The context of Psalm 23:6 is about heaven. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

It's widely interpreted by Christian scholars as the lord will be with you. It isn't a reference to an afterlife where your soul goes to heaven. Those beliefs were not part of Judaism until the 2nd temple period and even then many high priests considered the new ideas herecy because the Torah does not mention any of them.
You are interpreting things way after the fact and doing revisionist history.

Similarities in beliefs between the Bible and Hellinistic beliefs hint it is just the nature of man to forget and fall away from the truth. I do think the messianic expectation was there from the very beginning ever since the fall, because I think they realized, perhaps more than most people think, that they needed a redeemer in order to be restored to the fellowship and oneness with God that was experienced in Eden.

Eden is a Persian and Mesopotamian myth. We can easily prove you are wrong here because no other cultures had these ideas in their myths. Only cultures in the region. This shows without a doubt that the information is not inherent in peoples consciousness but are local myths that spread around the Middle East.

So I don't think it's surprising that that concept was there, people just took it and it became changed into various forms as the cultures developed, and even though they may have held onto the idea, the addition of other gods or pagan practices corrupted it, so that's I think why the gospel was needed, to bring people back to God.

The Greeks had the myths first. Later the Persians had it. Then the Israelites copied the ideas. Your apologetics are unfounded. IF you bother to study other cultures religions they already had their own gospels and myths. Dr Josh explains that the laws the Israelites had were actually exactly like the laws all nations had around them. There was nothing special or new about the myths or laws. Unlike what they teach you in church.
But you haven't shown any proof of any God? Just stories taken from older stories. None of this is real.

Just because the doctrine of heaven wasn't invented officially during Old Testament times doesn't mean it's wasn't in the scriptures. Regarding the religious leaders not believing in heaven. we can't trust what the clergy say blindly, the only one we can really trust is God. Just because they didn't believe in heaven and souls doesn't mean those concepts dont exist or aren't in the scriptures.

There is no heaven in the Torah. High priests who meditated and studied the "word of God" their entire lives did not agree with these concepts. Scholarship already knows where the myths came from. You can believe what you like but the evidence is clear. These are myths.

God being like a shepherd in Psalm 23:6 doesn't take away from the concept of heaven is mentioned in that verse.

It's about the prescence of God being with someone. The cosmology of the religious scholars back then was there were 7 heavens. The 7th was where God and the stars were. People did not go there. That is basic history.

The Torah, the most important Jewish text, has no clear reference to afterlife at all. It would seem that the dead go down to Sheol, a kind of Hades, where they live an ethereal, shadowy existence (Num. 16:33; Ps. 6:6; Isa. 38:18).

It started during the Persian invasion. Obviously this being a Jewish encyclopedia they are not going to say what myths it was taken from:

"
In Second Temple Literature
In the eschatology of the apocryphal literature of the Second Temple period, the idea of heavenly immortality, either vouchsafed for all Israel or for the righteous alone, vies with the resurrection of the dead as the dominant theme. Thus, IV Maccabees, for instance, though on the whole tending toward Pharisaism in its theology, promises everlasting life with God to those Jewish martyrs who preferred death to the violation of His Torah, but is silent about resurrection. II Maccabees, on the other hand, figures the latter prominently (cf. II Macc. 7:14, 23; IV Macc. 9:8; 17:5, 18). The doctrine was, however, stressed by sectarian groups and is vividly expressed in the New Testament."


Everything before it is some form of re-worked myth and everything after it is also re-worked myths that were popular in this area.

 

[Skywalker]

Same with Hindu scriptures except they are older.
The authors didn't need to meet, they read the myths and expanded on them. We already know the beginning of scripture is taken from Mesopotamian myths. The introduction of souls, afterlife, God vs Satan, resurrection for everyone at the end of the world were nowhere to be found in this religion for centuries. Then when they learn of it from invading countries they add it to their stories and re-work their theology.

Christian scholarship has long since ben admitting the synooptic gospels are sourced from Mark. The new editions of the NIV bible even state this in the intro.

As Bible.com explains the synoptic problem has been solved by realizing the other gospels are copied from Mark. There is nothing supernatural here. Just myths written about myths.
The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org



Except you fell for the lie the church told you. If you actually stop being brainwashed and read what scholars have to say you will see this is not exactly true.
The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels covers much of this.
Some of the OT was found in this collection. SO? The OT is known to be a myth.
What we did learn was that in the 2nd century there were just as many gnostic sects, many with radically different ideas about Jesus and God. They were beaten out by Bishops who wanted themselves to be the only people who could teach scripture. Yes, by corruption. You will not lean the full truth listening to bias people.
Go right ahead, read all the lost gospel text.

"The apocryphal gospels, discovered by a farmer in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt, are here explained in the context of late second-century RC church history. Gnostic (gnosis, Gk: knowledge) Christians did not believe that human intermediaries (priests, etc.) were necessary for an individual to find God. For the gnostics, enlightenment was an entirely inward and self-determined process. Gnostic Christians believed that Jesus was not divine but an ordinary man with an extraordinary message. They did not believe in the resurrection of the flesh. They did not believe in the eucharist, nor did they have any eschatalogical beliefs. They believed in a higher supreme god and a lower creator god, Yahweh, the Jewish god, who maliciously made man in his image and demanded to be worshipped by him. They believed that "secret wisdom" was handed down to the Apostles by Jesus, esoteric knowledge which was not vouchsafed to ordinary believers but only to mature ones. The gnostics believed that through their way of knowing God they were able to exceed the knowledge of the Apostles. There is language in the New Testament to support this idea of Jesus's secret wisdom. For the masses Jesus had only parables, exoteric knowledge appropriate to the less spiritually advanced. Late in the book some of the techniques for achieving gnosis are reviewed and they are surprisingly close to those used by Buddhists. Though Buddhists are nontheistic what they and the gnostics do has uncanny similarities. Elaine Pagels shows us that there was no early Christian golden age. That is to say, an age that had uniform teachings accepted by all. Instead the teachings were far more diverse than they are today, and highly contentious. Moreover, the RC church could have developed radically differently if some of these writings had been accepted, instead of being purged, as they were, so that someone, perhaps a monk belonging to a monastery near Nag Hammadi, buried them in a jar under the sand 1,600 years ago. "




It's a metaphor. They had no heaven for people in Judaism. So much so that during the 2nd temple period many religious leaders insisted the new ideas about heaven and souls was Hellenistic sacreligious garbage (probably influenced by Satan). But the new myths won out because they were more attractive to followers.

"The speaker says that the Lord (God) is like a shepherd to him. This sets up an explicit metaphor in which humanity, or at least the community of believers, is a flock of sheep tended by God. ... Instead, he means that with God as his protector, he won't lack anything he needs."

If yoiu study the cosmology of the time they believed in 7 heavens, all in outer space. The 7th was where God and the stars dwelled. Not people.

Similarities between the Bible and other belief systems have to do with probably most of these legends and beliefs come from the fact that everyone had a common beginning and at one time everyone knew God. These accounts were passed down and developed (and became corrupted in some ways) into the stories and traditions that these cultures have today. I think it is just the nature of man to forget and fall away from the truth. I do think the messianic expectation was there from the very beginning ever since the fall, because I think they realized, perhaps more than most people think, that they needed a redeemer in order to be restored to the fellowship and oneness with God that was experienced in Eden. So I don't think it's surprising that that concept was there, people just took it and it became changed into various forms as the cultures developed, and even though they may have held onto the idea, the addition of other gods or pagan practices corrupted it, so that's I think why the gospel was needed, to bring people back to the one true God. Similarities between the Bible and the flood story supports that the same flood happened that non Christians recorded too, and actually supports the Bible.

Everyone knows that there are is God and the devil, and it doesn't take much to figure out there are souls, afterlife, and resurrection for everyone at the end of the world. What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)?"

Answer: Ecclesiastes 3:11 states God has “set eternity in the human heart.” In every human soul is a God-given awareness that there is “something more” than this transient world. And with that awareness of eternity comes a hope that we can one day find a fulfillment not afforded by the “vanity” in this world. Here is a closer look at the verse:

“In the human heart” is an expression representing the mind, soul, or spirit of each person. God places eternity (Hebrew olam) into our heart and soul.

The word translated “eternity” is much debated regarding its translation in this passage. The word olam can be translated as “darkness,” “eternity,” or “the future.” The use of this word could indicate darkness (in the sense of ignorance), contrasting this concept with what follows in verse 11: “Yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.” It could be that Solomon is contrasting human ignorance with God’s perfect wisdom.

A better possibility, and the one that is the typical interpretation, is that olam refers to God’s placing an eternal longing or sense of eternity in the human heart. Taking this understanding to be the correct one, Ecclesiastes 3:11 affirms the idea that humans operate in a different way than other forms of life. We have a sense of eternity in our lives; we possess an innate knowledge that there is something more to life than what we can see and experience in the here and now.

The larger context of the chapter aids our understanding of verse 11. Ecclesiastes 3:1 says, “There is a time for everything, / and a season for every activity under the heavens.” The next seven verses list a series of contrasts: love and hate, scattering and gathering, tearing and mending, weeping and laughter. Then comes verse 11, which begins, “He has made everything beautiful in its time.” In other words, life is comprised of opposite experiences in balance; God has appointed each to its season. Each season is to be considered as part of a whole.

Seasons come and go, but does anything in this life truly satisfy? The answer in Ecclesiastes is, no, all is vanity (Ecclesiastes 1:2). However, through all the ups and downs and vicissitudes of life, we have a glimpse of stability—God has “set eternity in the human heart.” Life is but a vapor (James 4:14), but we know there is something past this life. We have a divinely implanted awareness that the soul lives forever. This world is not our home.

Similarities between Noah's ark and Sumerian beliefs supports the Bible because Sumerian beliefs describe the same flood event the Bible describes. Belief in the one true God was passed down from Noah to his descendants but the information was lost over time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Similarities between Noah's ark and Sumerian beliefs supports the Bible because Sumerian beliefs describe the same flood event the Bible describes. Belief in the one true God was passed down from Noah to his descendants but the information was lost over time.

You have that backwards. We know that the event never occurred, at least nothing like the Bible account. The similarities between the younger Hebrew account is probably due to their copying the story from them.

 

[whosetosay...]

You're going to have to do better than that. Why not mention the fact that archeologists have not found a scintilla of evidence 3 million Hebrews ever set foot in the Sinai, much less wandered in it for 40 years.

How much have these areas changed of the thousands of years and how many people walked there? Since when did Egyptians really write about their failures?

After a century of excavations trying to prove the ancient accounts true, archeologists say there is NO conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, were ever enslaved, ever wandered in the Sinai wilderness for 40 years or ever conquered the land of Canaan under Joshua’s leadership.

Doubting the Story of Exodus

There are archeologists who do believe that biblical accounts. Most written under their old name. Do the Jews not exist? Are they not all over the world and can you take your family geology all the way back to the time of Moses? But the Jews know for the writings existed on scrolls did they not. In fact all the writing of the Prophets existed on scrolls didn't they? We have the Jews themselves as evidence of the tribes of Israel and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Excavate away but look for news where things happen. I remember they found what they believed to be the remains of Noah Ark on mount Ararat. If you cannot see the truth in front of you like the Jews themselves how can you hope to believe in their history?

Bible exodus Red Sea crossing FOUND where Moses 'led Israelites into Saudi Arabia’

Sometimes we need to read and understand that there are others searching for proof too.

But God ultimately shows only truth seekers find what they are looking for because it is necessary to know God.

 

[whosetosay...]

Your strawman shows you don't even believe what you say. This isn't information from "others". This is the consensus of Christian scholarship.

Which Straw Man? No Straw man, no fallacy , nothing made up. You see the bible and it's content is only understood by those whose minds have been open by God. Consensus of Christian scholarship used in the broadest of terms is NEVER going to stand as an argument when up against God himself and his word to those who are lead in Spirit and Truth. You can start right there. Explain what that term means for the believer who is lead by God himself.

archeology shows most biblical narratives are things that happened on a much smaller scale and were enlarged by writers or are myths that never happened. The 2 creation stories are closely paralleled with 2 Mesopotamian creation myths as is Noah's Ark. So we know those are likely borrowed stories.

What about the last two world wars... what is left to show the scale of destruction that it had on the countries involved?
Given what happened at the tower of babel then the stories of Genesis and God would spread far and wide. Noah is a descendant of Abraham so not a borrowed myth unless you are saying there were stories about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in all these other places? No logic in the argument and the only logic that could be taken is that Noah and his Ark existed.

There is no evidence of Exodus but rather evidence the early Israelites emerged from Canaanite culture. It's a national foundation myth as described by scholar carol Meyers here: NOVA | The Bible's Buried Secrets | Moses and the Exodus | PBS

So she went to college and suddenly she knows better than who? Why were the books of OT the first five given to Moses to write? Why were they all about actual places and people named and spoken about?

I don't really know what you are talking about regarding history changing? The OT was never history and wasn't intended to be history. There wasn't even a word for history?

Show me where in the bible this is written? It isn't in fact in the NT Christ a Jew makes it clear that Abraham existed. At no time in the bible has it ever been suggested it was myths.

Matthew 17:2 Moses and Elijah are definitely not mythical nor ever meant to be, The truth is you don't want to know about anything that challenges you to put what you believe to the test.

Most mythology is written in a place that existed in the real world. Hindu and Greek myths take place in real places and wars.
We know the OT is myth because everything is borrowed mythology. They didn't even have an afterlife beyond wandering around in Sheol and then when occupied by Persians and Greeks they learned about souls who belong in a place called heaven and all of those concepts we now associate with religion. This is more borrowed myth.

As I have said show the bible is a myth using the bible itself or admit you have just learned what you want to believe without questioning it's truth to validate it.
It is a well known fact that the Jews learned the sayings of Moses off by heart and passed them down each generation.
It started at Moses but therein lies the proof. From Moses to present date.

A recent paper I just read on the Israelite religion explains they took Gods from the Canaanites and formed their own mythology.
Israelite Religion

If you are going to study something then do it for yourself not through others. Ba'al which means Lord were more than one god because it was the worship of the forces of nature and the Israelites were often tempted to go idol worshipping in that form. The facts are not recent in the 19th century these things known to serious scholars and hence Ba'al is mentioned in the OT. Not hidden but nevertheless a false god and shown to be ny God himself.

"The tripartite hierarchy of the divine world—Yahweh,the Sons of God or Heavenly Host, and the angels—derives from the earlier structure of Canaanite religion."

"On the levelof high god, El seems to have merged with Yahweh, who ab-sorbs El’s name and has many of his attributes. Asherah inIsraelite religion becomes the name of a sacred pole or treein local Yahwistic shrines, although there are hints in some texts that she was worshiped as a goddess in some times and places."

The fact is that the religion of ABRAHAM believed in ONE God and that EL was the father of many false gods so as we said Ba.al Lord many gods being forces of nature means at no time could Yahweh and EL be the same. So we now have a clear and separate fact that Yahweh never came from EL. And Asherah The association of Asherah with trees in the Hebrew Bible is very strong. For example, she is found under trees (1 Kings 14:23; 2 Kings 17:10) and is made of wood by human beings (1 Kings 14:15, 2 Kings 16:3–4). We see Asherah forces of nature and associated with trees and more importantly made from wood by human beings.

Look up Ba'al and see what is written about this god/s and the forces of nature and how the bible clearly defines how false these gods are and nothing to do with the living God. El did not create YAHWEH instead God destroyed the false gods and idols the Jews worshiped when they strayed.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

How much have these areas changed of the thousands of years and how many people walked there? Since when did Egyptians really write about their failures?


There are archeologists who do believe that biblical accounts. Most written under their old name. Do the Jews not exist? Are they not all over the world and can you take your family geology all the way back to the time of Moses? But the Jews know for the writings existed on scrolls did they not. In fact all the writing of the Prophets existed on scrolls didn't they? We have the Jews themselves as evidence of the tribes of Israel and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Excavate away but look for news where things happen. I remember they found what they believed to be the remains of Noah Ark on mount Ararat. If you cannot see the truth in front of you like the Jews themselves how can you hope to believe in their history?

Bible exodus Red Sea crossing FOUND where Moses 'led Israelites into Saudi Arabia’

Sometimes we need to read and understand that there are others searching for proof too.

But God ultimately shows only truth seekers find what they are looking for because it is necessary to know God.

Only Christians believe it. Secular scholar recognize they are myths. Check this out:

Among the ruins of the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit, tablets were found in a language very similar to Hebrew, recording the many myths believed by the city’s inhabitants - including that creation began with the storm god Baal vanquishing the god of the sea Yam and his sea monster-serpent-dragon helpers.

There are striking parallels between the Ugarit text and certain biblical verses. In the Book of Isaiah, for instance, the prophet says: “In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea” (Isaiah 27:1).

That is nearly verbatim to what an anonymous Canaanite bard has to say about Baal: “When you killed Litan, the fleeing serpent, annihilated the twisty serpent, the potentate with seven heads."

The clearest and fullest biblical account of this ancient myth appears in Psalm 74: “For God... Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters. Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness. Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers. The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter” (74:12-17).

And notice this is coming from the Jewish magazine Haaretz so it's even Jewish scholars who are recognizing that much of their Old Testament heritage is stolen from pagan cultures.

Clearly the Jewish writers lifted God killing Leviathan from the Canaanite myth.

Genesis of Genesis: Where did the biblical story of Creation come from?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Which Straw Man? No Straw man, no fallacy , nothing made up. You see the bible and it's content is only understood by those whose minds have been open by God. Consensus of Christian scholarship used in the broadest of terms is NEVER going to stand as an argument when up against God himself and his word to those who are lead in Spirit and Truth. You can start right there. Explain what that term means for the believer who is lead by God himself.




What about the last two world wars... what is left to show the scale of destruction that it had on the countries involved?
Given what happened at the tower of babel then the stories of Genesis and God would spread far and wide. Noah is a descendant of Abraham so not a borrowed myth unless you are saying there were stories about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in all these other places? No logic in the argument and the only logic that could be taken is that Noah and his Ark existed.


So she went to college and suddenly she knows better than who? Why were the books of OT the first five given to Moses to write? Why were they all about actual places and people named and spoken about?
Show me where in the bible this is written? It isn't in fact in the NT Christ a Jew makes it clear that Abraham existed. At no time in the bible has it ever been suggested it was myths.

Matthew 17:2 Moses and Elijah are definitely not mythical nor ever meant to be, The truth is you don't want to know about anything that challenges you to put what you believe to the test.





As I have said show the bible is a myth using the bible itself or admit you have just learned what you want to believe without questioning it's truth to validate it.
It is a well known fact that the Jews learned the sayings of Moses off by heart and passed them down each generation.
It started at Moses but therein lies the proof. From Moses to present date.

Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader.

Such startling propositions --[are] the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years."

New Torah For Modern Minds (Published 2002)

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Everyone knows that there is God and the devil,

I invited satan to dinner once, no kidding. I said I would give my soul to him if he came. He turned down a perfectly good soul. Satan is a figment of man's imagination.

 

[Skywalker]

I invited satan to dinner once, no kidding. I said I would give my soul to him if he came. He turned down a perfectly good soul. Satan is a figment of man's imagination.

You know evil exists if you look around you at all that is going on in the world now. Even without the Bible you know that evil exists. If there is good, there is evil.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

You know evil exists if you look around you at all that is going on in the world now. Even without the Bible you know that evil exists. If there is good, there is evil.

Yes, there is evil and good. Both are products of man's behaviors that have evolved over the last million years. Societies learned that when you bash your neighbor's head in your tribe diminishes thus making it prone to being wiped out by neighboring tribes. Result: murder is bad, therefore it is evil and against the law. God and satan had nothing to do with that.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?: There is no evidence for God himself.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, there is evil and good. Both are products of man's behaviors that have evolved over the last million years. Societies learned that when you bash your neighbor's head in your tribe diminishes thus making it prone to being wiped out by neighboring tribes. Result: murder is bad, therefore it is evil and against the law. God and satan had nothing to do with that.

People's behaviors are influenced by who leads them. There are universal moral principles that apply to all people in all cultures, times, and places. The moral law comes from God. The existence of the law shows that there is a lawgiver.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

People's behaviors are influenced by who leads them. There are universal moral principles that apply to all people in all cultures, times, and places. The moral law comes from God. The existence of the law shows that there is a lawgiver.

More Kool-Aid. Nothing is directly traceable back to God except maybe the heavens as you often say.

 

[Skywalker]

More Kool-Aid. Nothing is directly traceable back to God except maybe the heavens as you often say.

The creation is proof of the Creator. Everything that exists has such an order and a purpose that it can't just exist, there has to be God who designed everything.