Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[We Never Know]

Without the trees we couldn't survive and vice versa show that nature has order and purpose that can only be explained by a Creator.

From what I've read of the bible its a collection of stories. Each story has lessons within it.

Lets take David and Goliath. The story itself may be untrue but the lessons in it are true.

For example these 5 lessons...

1. Don't let fear stop you from taking on a challenge or obstacle.

2. Size doesn't matter. Don't let the size of an obstacle stop you from trying.

3. Make use of what your have. Don't be afraid to try with what your have.

4. Believe in yourself and your possibilities. If you don't believe in yourself you've already lost.

5. Don't under estimate yourself or you will hold yourself back from succeeding.

 

[Skywalker]

Why do you keep using lying sources? You know better than that.

You are wrong again. It is like calling a rich person "eccentric" and a poor person "crazy". The definition is the same, it is just special pleading for a class. Miracles are magic. People use that term because they know that it is foolish to believe in magic so they fool themselves by calling them miracles. Like it or not, they are magic.

Magic is being a spiritual mover and shaker apart from submission to God. The teachings of Jesus do not reflect name it and claim it theology. God can give us those things if he wanted to, but God isn't a butler or a genie in the bottle. Jesus came to save us and to teach us how to live, not to entertain us. John 14:13

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

[Skywalker]

From what I've read of the bible its a collection of stories. Each story has lessons within it.

Lets take David and Goliath. The story itself may be untrue but the lessons in it are true.

For example these 5 lessons...

1. Don't let fear stop you from taking on a challenge or obstacle.

2. Size doesn't matter. Don't let the size of an obstacle stop you from trying.

3. Make use of what your have. Don't be afraid to try with what your have.

4. Believe in yourself and your possibilities. If you don't believe in yourself you've already lost.

5. Don't under estimate yourself or you will hold yourself back from succeeding.

Using figures of speech doesn't mean that the Bible is a collection of stories. You have to look at the context of the verse to know if it's a parable or real and when you read the Bible over and over you notice things that you did't notice before. I believe that people who say that the Bible is stories that teach a lesson are trying to interpret the Bible from the belief of there not being a God, which is absurd when you look at the creation around you and how it has design and purpose. Can/should we interpret the Bible literally? | GotQuestions.org

Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages. An example of a figure of speech would be that if someone said "it is raining cats and dogs outside," you would know that they did not really mean that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. They would mean it is raining really hard. There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally, but those are obvious. (See Psalm 17:8 for example.)

Finally, when we make ourselves the final arbiters of which parts of the Bible are to be interpreted literally, we elevate ourselves above God. Who is to say, then, that one person’s interpretation of a biblical event or truth is any more or less valid than another’s? The confusion and distortions that would inevitably result from such a system would essentially render the Scriptures null and void. The Bible is God’s Word to us and He meant it to be believed—literally and completely.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Piltdown man is not proof that human beings evolved from other beings. Piltdown man was a hoax. The Piltdown Man Fraud - creation.com

Please tell me you don't actually believe all of anthropogeny is fraudulent just because one jerk committed a fraud. Please, I'm begging you!

 

[Skywalker]

Please tell me you don't actually believe all of anthropogeny is fraudulent just because one jerk committed a fraud. Please, I'm begging you!

I believe that the existence of cavemen is exaggerated.There is nothing in the context of Bible verses that hints at the existence of primitive people. God created human beings. The Common Propaganda Regarding "Cave Men"

Our children’s textbooks are filled with references to half-savage “cave men” from whom we allegedly descended. What can we say when our youngsters ask about such teachings?

Evolutionists are consummately skilled at employing distortions, half-truths, and the manipulation of evidence to advance their own philosophical agenda. There is no better example of this than the general evolutionary presentation relative to “cave dwellers.”

Certainly there have been those of the ancient past (and even more recent times) who lived in caves. But the type of domicile in which a being dwells says nothing about his “humanity.” A man who lives in a cave is no more “half-animal,” than is a dog “half-human,” who happens to live in a house. Consider the following facts.

Cavemen in the Bible
The Bible itself speaks of those who lived in caves. After the destruction of Sodom and the other cities of the Plain, Lot and his daughters “dwelt in a cave” (Gen. 19:30). Caves were frequently used as places of refuge in biblical times. (cf. Judg. 6:2; 1 Sam. 14:11; 22:1-2; 23:29; 1 Kgs. 18:4; 19:9; see also other general references, e.g., Num. 24:21; Song of Sol. 2:14; Jer. 49:16; Obad. 3).

Cavemen were human
Anthropological evidence from many cave sites reveals a strictly “human” mode of habitation. There is ample evidence of cooking, sewing, tools, pottery, art work, religious artifacts, and even furniture.

 

[Riders]

Magic is being a spiritual mover and shaker apart from submission to God. The teachings of Jesus do not reflect name it and claim it theology. God can give us those things if he wanted to, but God isn't a butler or a genie in the bottle. Jesus came to save us and to teach us how to live, not to entertain us. John 14:13

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Well that makes God a genie in a bottle.

 

[Riders]

Well I got into this thread too late. Has any secular evidence for Jesus been offered up?

 

[Skywalker]

Well that makes God a genie in a bottle.

God is not a genie in the bottle. God came down to save us and teach us how to live, not to entertain us. The Bible doesn't support the word of faith theology. It goes totally against having a relationship with God and making God a part of your life and knowing God because God is God, not what we can get from God. EXPOSING THE WORD OF FAITH PROSPERITY GOSPEL - JUSTIN PETERS - SO4J

Doctrines of the Word of Faith Movement
What follows is a very brief listing of some of the Doctrines of the Word of Faith movement:

Positive Confessions
Positive Confession – The belief that what is spoken can be brought into literal existence. Believers may simply speak the things which they desire of God and He is obligated to give it to them; hence the label “Name It and Claim It” gospel. If this sounds eerily like God’s act of creation in Gen. 1 and 2, it is.

Little gods Doctrine
Little gods Doctrine – The belief that man was created to be an exact duplicate of God. Believers, then, are little gods on the earth.

Spiritual Death of Jesus
Spiritual Death of Jesus – The belief that Christ’s physical death was insufficient to atone for sin. He also had to die spiritually. Of course, if Jesus died spiritually, then He ceased being God and if He ceased being God even for an instant, He never was God to begin with.

Revelation Knowledge
Revelation Knowledge – The belief that God dispenses to certain believers, apart from the Scriptures, secret knowledge of Himself. This is a modern day version of the ancient heresy of Gnosticism against which the New Testament repeatedly warns.

Health & Wealth
Health & Wealth – The belief that all believers have the right to walk in perfect, divine health and prosper financially. This stems from the erroneous view that sickness was paid for by Christ’s spiritual atonement in hell and that prosperity is a cosmic law ordained by God respectively.

Heresy is never promoted in a manner which exposes its darkness for all to see. Rather, its poison is wrapped in familiar Christian language to make it more palatable. The Word of Faith movement has craftily packaged its counterfeit gospel to look like the real thing. It is making alarming inroads into all Christian churches, including Southern Baptist churches. Many honest, sincere, born-again Christians are being deceived and hurt.

 

[Skywalker]

That is not purpose. That is merely nature. The trees do not exist for us.

Have I stated that there is no god? You may be confused because specific versions of god can be refuted. For example if God can't lie then the "God" of Noah's Ark fame does not exist. That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. Many Christians conflate their personal God being refuted with all versions of God being refuted.

Why would the God who created everything with design and purpose not be a personal God? We don't need taste buds to eat food. They exist because God is a loving God. Deism makes no sense. A parent wouldn't want nothing to do with their kid.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why would the God who created everything with design and purpose not be a personal God? We don't need taste buds to eat food. They exist because God is a loving God. Deism makes no sense. A parent wouldn't want nothing to do with their kid.

You are assuming a God. You first need to demonstrate that there is a God. Nor is there any observable design.

Taste buds have an evolutionary explanation. No magic is needed.

 

[Skywalker]

The full details are not known.

A lack of knowledge is never evidence for a god.

There is no way that nature could just exist, when there are so many variables in nature where life wouldn't exist without those variables there. Without the trees we couldn't survive, and vice versa. This shows that there is a personal God. Basis of Belief

Bruce Alberts, President, National Academy of Sciences writes, "We have always underestimated the cell.... The entire cell can be viewed as a factory that contains an elaborate network of interlocking assembly lines, each of which is composed of a set of large protein machines.... Why do we call [them] machines? Precisely because, like machines invented by humans to deal efficiently with the macroscopic world, these protein assemblies contain highly coordinated moving parts."

Many of us learned about the Miller experiment in high school. In this experiment, electricity was passed through what was thought to be the composition of the early atmosphere. The results were the production of two or three of the protein forming amino acids - the building blocks of life - out of the twenty-two that exist. The implication of the “success” of this experiment was that there could be a naturalistic explanation for our existence.

In the years following this experiment, science has concluded that the atmosphere was nothing like the one that Miller simulated. Two leading origin-of-life researchers, Klaus Dose and Sidney Fox, confirmed that Miller had used the wrong gas mixture. In 1995, Science magazine said that experts now dismiss Miller's experiment because "the early atmosphere looked nothing like the Miller-Urey simulation". In fact, if you repeat the experiment using what is now thought to be an accurate atmosphere, the results are the creation of organic compounds such as Formaldehyde and Cyanide, not life creating compounds.

Even if Miller had been right, amino acids are still a long way from a truly living organism. Stephen C. Meyer, PHD, tells us in The Case for a Creator that, "Even a simple protein molecule, or the gene to build that molecule, is so rich in information that the entire time since the Big Bang would not give you - the 'probabilistic resources' you would need to generate that molecule by chance.

"There's a minimal complexity threshold..... Run the odds of these things falling into place on their own, and you find the probabilities of forming a rather short functional protein at random would be one chance in a hundred thousand trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion. That's ten with 125 zeroes after it! And that would only be one protein molecule - a minimally complex cell would need between three hundred and five hundred protein molecules.

 

[Skywalker]

That is what I have always been saying, but some of our Christian friends (URAVIP2ME) think differently and say 'morals are from Bible'. Now this is an ignorant assertion.

The Bible talks about the holines and justices and love of God and the sinful nature of human beings. The God of the Bible died for every single person and wants all of his creation saved. In pagan religions the sinfulness of people is not emphasized and God being holy and loving is not really talked about-its more about what God can do for us. We all know that we do things we aren't supposed to do. Hell Inside The Earth - by David J. Stewart

The Bible describes man's wickedness and sin nature to a "t." No other book upon the earth addresses the sinfulness of mankind as does the Bible...

 

[Skywalker]

You can't really claim there is a purpose for the universe but you can claim eveything in the universe has a purpose.

The creation declares the glory of God. Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Incredible human hand - creation.com

In it, Dr McGavin outlines several fascinating features of our hand, which gives us a powerful grip but also allows us to manipulate small objects with great precision. This ability sets us apart from other creatures. The muscles in the hand are ‘strangely’ arranged, since most of the hand’s movements are controlled by muscles not located in the hand but in the forearm. The fingers are connected to the forearm by long tendons that pass through a flexible band.

This arrangement gives the fingers movement and strength that would be impossible if all the muscles were in the hand. In short, the hand looks like a bony puppet controlled by the forearm.

The term ‘bony puppet’ gives a wonderful image of how the hand was designed.

In addition, the skin in the fingers is special because it has cells of fat that give cushion-like protection for the huge number of nerve endings underneath. There are four types of skin receptors that respond to pressure (light and deep), touch, pain and temperature. Fingernails help to judge how firmly to hold anything.

The writer makes the assumption that these marvels of nature (hands and feet) appear by random mutation and natural selection in a succession of chance events—without a designer.
All of this is science, factual things that can be observed and verified.

However, Dr McGavin’s evolutionary bias is on show with the statement: “Both the human hand and foot represent a triumph of complex engineering, exquisitely evolved to perform a range of tasks.”

He continues: “When the first four-legged animals began to move onto the land from the sea around 380 million years ago some had as many as eight digits but the familiar five digit pattern soon became the standard which has since been modified in certain groups such as frogs and birds. The hand is one of the most complex and beautiful pieces of natural engineering in the human body.’’

When you look at design like this, don't you wonder who made everything?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no way that nature could just exist, when there are so many variables in nature where life wouldn't exist without those variables there. Without the trees we couldn't survive, and vice versa. This shows that there is a personal God. Basis of Belief

I could say the same about a god. In fact the evidence would support me more than you since we do know that nature exists. We do not know if God exists. You are using an argument from incredulity. That is a logical fallacy.

 

[Skywalker]

I could say the same about a god. In fact the evidence would support me more than you since we do know that nature exists. We do not know if God exists. You are using an argument from incredulity. That is a logical fallacy.

Everyone believes that God exists but some people suppress it because they want to be their own god. Romans 1:20

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everyone believes that God exists but some people suppress it because they want to be their own god. Romans 1:20

Nope, you need more than a quote from a failed book of myths to make that claim.

 

[Skywalker]

I could say the same about a god. In fact the evidence would support me more than you since we do know that nature exists. We do not know if God exists. You are using an argument from incredulity. That is a logical fallacy.

We don't see God but we see his creation all around us. Psalm 19:1

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We don't see God but we see his creation all around us. Psalm 19:1

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

No, that is merely pareidolia. Perhaps you should spend some time trying to learn what is and what is not evidence.

 

[Skywalker]

I could say the same about a god. In fact the evidence would support me more than you since we do know that nature exists. We do not know if God exists. You are using an argument from incredulity. That is a logical fallacy.

Everyone believes that God exists. There is so much evidence all around us that who would deny that there is a God. People don't believe in God because its fits their lifestyle or they want to be in charge of their own life not realizing they are a slave to self destructive behaviors.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everyone believes that God exists. There is so much evidence all around us that who would deny that there is a God. People don't believe in God because its fits their lifestyle or they want to be in charge of their own life not realizing they are a slave to self destructive behaviors.

Nope. There are countless atheists out there. And you do not seem to understand the concept of evidence since you have totally failed to supply any. A lack of belief in your myth has nothing to do with people's "lifestyle". What you said is actually a personal attack against others. It would be the same as if I claimed that all believers in God were mentally deficient. It is probably against the rules of the forum.