Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Subduction Zone]

Lmao! Lets start over since you are lost

The dead sea scrolls do exist. Do they have significance? <<<<hint that is a direct question

Try again. Rude and false statements will get you nowhere.

 

[We Never Know]

Try again. Rude and false statements will get you nowhere.

Lol. We are done for now. Go pick one a bible thumper. That's your specialty and what makes you feel supreme lol.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol. We are done for now. Go pick one a bible thumper. That's your specialty and what makes you feel supreme lol.

Then you have no clue, as usual. You could not even have a polite discussion.

Don't blame others when you fail.

 

[We Never Know]

Then you have no clue, as usual. You could not even have a polite discussion.

Don't blame others when you fail.

Lol. Lets start again one more time. If you fail here, then you fail completely..

You already admitted the dead sea scrolls do exist so ....
The dead sea scrolls do exist. Do they have significance? <<<<hint that is a direct question

This is the last time I will play your game. Answer or tuck your tail and run.

You claim many things in the bible are wrong/false only because like christians, you take it literally. What's sad is you don't even realize it.
Some christians make other christians look bad,
Some atheists make other atheists look bad, you are the latter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol. Lets start again one more time. If you fail here, then you fail completely..

You already admitted the dead sea scrolls do exist so ....
The dead sea scrolls do exist. Do they have significance? <<<<hint that is a direct question

This is the last time I will play your game. Answer or tuck your tail and run.

You claim many things in the bible are wrong/false only because like christians, you take it literally. What's sad is you don't even realize it.
Some christians make other christians look bad,
Some atheists make other atheists look bad, you are the latter.

I am not running away. You were being rude and acting foolishly again. When you do that you can no longer make demands. Cut down on the projection and false claims about others and you will get a reply. In fact since you lied about me using a personal attack an apology on your part is in order.

Try again.

 

[Skywalker]

So you understand zero science?
Trees were here before all animals. As life began spending more time out of the water it adapted the ability to breath whatever atmosphere was available. Now looking backwards people who don't understand basic evolution think we live in a magic kingdom where everything is here for us and to help us live.

The earth is so fine tuned for life to exist. For life to breath, the atmosphere had to be fine tuned right away. Everything in nature has an order and a purpose because if you look at how it is designed, it's here for us and to help us live. The universe is finely tuned for life - creation.com

Strong evidence for a Designer comes from the fine-tuning of the universal constants and the solar system, e.g.

• The electromagnetic coupling constant binds electrons to protons in atoms. If it was smaller, fewer electrons could be held. If it was larger, electrons would be held too tightly to bond with other atoms.
• Ratio of electron to proton mass (1:1836). Again, if this was larger or smaller, molecules could not form.
• Carbon and oxygen nuclei have finely tuned energy levels.
• Electromagnetic and gravitational forces are finely tuned, so the right kind of star can be stable.
• Our sun is the right colour. If it was redder or bluer, photosynthetic response would be weaker.
• Our sun is also the right mass. If it was larger, its brightness would change too quickly and there would be too much high energy radiation. If it was smaller, the range of planetary distances able to support life would be too narrow; the right distance would be so close to the star that tidal forces would disrupt the planet’s rotational period. UV radiation would also be inadequate for photosynthesis.
• The earth’s distance from the sun is crucial for a stable water cycle. Too far away, and most water would freeze; too close and most water would boil.
• The earth’s gravity, axial tilt, rotation period, magnetic field, crust thickness, oxygen/nitrogen ratio, carbon dioxide, water vapour and ozone levels are just right.

 

[Skywalker]

You have to quit repeating nonsense that you cannot support.

God reveals Himself through us through His word and creation. People say God didn't introduce Himself to them. God died for everyone. Is that not enough, why would he have to introduce Himself to us?

 

[Subduction Zone]

God reveals Himself through us through His word and creation. People say God didn't introduce Himself to them. God died for everyone. Is that not enough, why would he have to introduce Himself to us?

No, God does not say that. Nor did he die. Don't conflate a book of myths with anyone saying anything.

 

[Skywalker]

Because OT scripture was written by Bronze age people who knew no science and could only make up silly regional gods and prescribe laws to follow.
The fossil line of hominids is well established from hominids who walked a small amount up to modern humans.
You should at least consider looking at how much evidence we have for the evolution of hominids


Hominidae - Wikipedia

Anthropology shows that the people who scientists call cavemen were entirely human. There is no fossil line of hominids. The people who we call hominids were not proof of evolution, they were proof that people have different ways of life and nobody is primitive. Living in caves doesn't make someone a caveman. The Common Propaganda Regarding "Cave Men"

Cavemen were human
Anthropological evidence from many cave sites reveals a strictly “human” mode of habitation. There is ample evidence of cooking, sewing, tools, pottery, art work, religious artifacts, and even furniture.

Within the caves of the so-called “Neanderthal” people in the region south of Haifa (Israel), there is an abundance of artifacts which reveal that these people were entirely human. [Note: The name “Neanderthal” is taken from a valley in northwest Germany where skeleton remains were found in a cave in 1856.]

For example, there were articles of personal adornment that were, in the words of one authority, “oddly like costume jewelry on sale today in American shops.” And a “rock-cut divan has been found in the important caves of Ophel” near Jerusalem (see M.S. & J. L. Miller, Encyclopedia of Biblical Life, New York: Harper Bros., 1944, p. 235-236).

Cavemen in modern times
The more isolated and culturally-primitive peoples of our planet have continued to live in caves even in modern times. The Pueblo Indians lived in caves. Were they semi-human? A century ago people were still living in caves in Palestine (see McClintock & Strong, Cyclopedia, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1968, Vol. II, p. 168).

“Stone-age” people living today
There are many tribes today, composed of people who are unquestionably and totally “human,” yet, who are even less civilized than many of the cultures of the past – thousands of years past! Contrast the ancient Egyptians with the modern Tasaday people of the Philippines. The Egyptians were much more sophisticated than the Tasaday folks – who are classified as “stone-age” people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Anthropology shows that the people who scientists call cavemen were entirely human. There is no fossil line of hominids. The people who we call hominids were not proof of evolution, they were proof that people have different ways of life and nobody is primitive. Living in caves doesn't make someone a caveman. The Common Propaganda Regarding "Cave Men"

LOL!! Oh my. You do make me laugh.

 

[Skywalker]

Some type of deism or reality being created by some thinking agent still has nothing to do with ancient stories. Even if it were true, Greek Gods are not real, the Hindu religion isn't automatically true and neither are biblical narratives.
When they created Yahweh he wasn't even the God of everything he was only God of Israel and there was a council of divine beings.
Later this was changed. But it's all fiction.

The Bible is different from Greek mythology and the Hindu religion because the Bible talks about God's holiness, justice, love for his creation despite their sins. Other belief systems don't talk about the sinful nature of people. Sin is real. Just like there are human laws we are supposed to follow, none of us can live up to God's standards about respecting oneself and others and that's why he died for our sins. Hell Inside The Earth - by David J. Stewart

The Bible describes man's wickedness and sin nature to a "t." No other book upon the earth addresses the sinfulness of mankind as does the Bible

The Bible doesn't say that Satan was part of a council of divine beings. That is an interpretation based off of only having progressive revelation and rejecting the New Testament.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

You know how as you get older certain body parts do not work as well as when you were younger? Imagine yourself in the dating scene. It appears that some of God's parts do not work as well when he was younger and as a result he is more than a bit shy.

Until someone comes up with a better explanation I am going with that one. Hmmm, what sort of chemical would work as Viagra for God?

Something that would clean out his plumbing, possibly. Liquid Draino?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Sin is real. Just like there are human laws we are supposed to follow, none of us can live up to God's standards about respecting oneself and others and that's why he died for our sins.



The Bible doesn't say that Satan was part of a council of divine beings. That is an interpretation based off of only having progressive revelation and rejecting the New Testament.

There's no such thing as sin. It's a human construct invented by the early church leaders to make dumb pagans who were forced to join the RCC subservient to them by requiring that they make confession to a priest in order to get absolution for their sins. I'm shocked Christians cannot see through this corrupt ruse. They could if they just read something beside their Bible (which they hardly read anyway.)

There's no satan. He's another invention by the church to pin the blame on for goof-ups that are obviously God's fault.

 

[Skywalker]

Not true at all. From the big bang and onwards the laws of physics accounts for all of the design. There could be endless other universes where the laws were different and there is no life.

Even if there is some creator it has nothing to do with ancient stories about people getting messages from their local God and then copying old myths. Your religion is no different than Hinduism or Islam. They are made up myths designed to teach lessons and laws to ancient people.

The laws of physics do not explain the universe being fine tuned to support life. The universe is finely tuned for life - creation.com

Former atheist Sir Fred Hoyle states, ‘commonsense interpretation of the facts is that a super-intelligence has monkeyed with physics, as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces in nature.’

If there was a multiverse, it would show a need for there to be God, because there would still be moral principles. Has the Multiverse Replaced God? | Reasonable Faith

Now, of course, the existence of a multiverse is not inconsistent with theism. God could have created a multiverse if he wanted to. Indeed, I think we’ll see that the best hope of those who want to believe in the multiverse is theism. The best bet for thinking that a multiverse exists is if God exists.

But does belief in a multiverse render God unnecessary? Now in one sense the answer is obviously not. A multiverse does not provide a foundation for objective moral values or love you or save you from sin. But the claim is that the multiverse renders God unnecessary with respect to the creation and design of the universe. So the multiverse is significant as a defeater for cosmological and teleological arguments for God’s existence. The question is whether the natural theologian can make a case for God as the creator and designer of the universe in the face of the multiverse hypothesis.

Cosmological Argument

Let’s talk first about arguments for God as the creator of the universe. One version of the cosmological argument attempts to prove that God brought the universe into being at some time in the finite past. The kalam cosmological argument originated in the attempts of Christian thinkers to rebut Aristotle’s doctrine of the eternity of the universe and was developed by medieval Islamic theologians into an argument for the existence of God. [1] Let’s look at the formulation of this argument by al-Gha-zalı- (1058-1111). He reasons, “Every being which begins has a cause for its beginning; now the world is a being which begins; therefore, it possesses a cause for its beginning.” [2]

We can summarize Ghazali’s reasoning in three simple steps:

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

 

[Skywalker]

First science has 100% ruled out a world flood. So it's definitely a myth.


"Modern geology, its sub-disciplines and other scientific disciplines utilize the scientific method to analyze the geology of the earth. The key tenets of flood geology are refuted by scientific analysis and do not have any standing in the scientific community.[5][6][7][8][9] Modern geology relies on a number of established principles, one of the most important of which is Charles Lyell's principle of uniformitarianism. In relation to geological forces it states that the shaping of the Earth has occurred by means of mostly slow-acting forces that can be seen in operation today. By applying these principles, geologists have determined that the Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years old. They study the lithosphere of the Earth to gain information on the history of the planet. Geologists divide Earth's history into eons, eras, periods, epochs, and faunal stages characterized by well-defined breaks in the fossil record (see Geologic time scale).[110][111] In general, there is a lack of any evidence for any of the above effects proposed by flood geologists and their claims of fossil layering are not taken seriously by scientists.[112]
Flood geology - Wikipedia



Putting the word "holy" before a God doesn't mean anything. It's a ridiculous word. All gods cultures make up are just and loving to some degree.
Yahweh is a terrible God who kills entire nations including children and instructs that entire cities be wiped out.
Luckily it's just a fictional story.

Greek myths had a flood as well.
"In Plato's Timaeus, written c. 360 BC, Timaeus describes a flood myth similar to the earlier versions. In it, the Bronze race of humans angers the high god Zeus with their constant warring. Zeus decides to punish humanity with a flood. The Titan Prometheus, who had created humans from clay, tells the secret plan to Deucalion, advising him to build an ark in order to be saved. After nine nights and days, the water starts receding and the ark lands on a mountain.[24]"



All of the evidence put forth here was clear that the Persian myths pre-date the biblical versions. Scholarship is well aware of this. So your denial is just denial.
We covered the works of Mary Boyce and all the exact details from the Persian religion, you had no way to account for that except denial. Now you claim there is "evidence"? Yet you had no evidence when we were discussing this?
Now you are just playing games and being intentionally dishonest. Going into preaching mode was the beginning of the end.

So it looks like comparing the Bible to the Matrix is very much factual. Both take fictional stories and re-work them to create a savior God narrative who has come to save humanity, dies and is resurrected into his full power form. Then the savior flies off into space.



If we followed biblical morals women would not speak in church. It would be immoral. As would religious freedom.





But graven images are not considered immoral. Nor is working on Sunday. Or following other Gods. So we do not take morals from the bible.



Blah blah, for this ridiculous idea you don't even have an apologetics article?
The OT does mention Satan very clearly. He works with Yahweh. Yahweh sends him to do dirty work.
Then in the NT he's the big enemy of God. Hmmm, just like the Persian myth? Wow, what a coincidence!



Already done this. It isn't a reference to a soul going to heaven. The Jewish religion didn't believe that was a thing.
They took the myths from the Persians and Greeks later.

Science supports that there was a global flood. Startling evidence for Noahs Flood - creation.com

Startling evidence for Noah’s Flood
Footprints and sand ‘dunes’ in a Grand Canyon sandstone!
by Andrew A. Snelling and Steven A. Austin
“There is no sight on earth which matches Grand Canyon. There are other canyons, other mountains and other rivers, but this Canyon excels all in scenic grandeur. Can any visitor, upon viewing Grand Canyon, grasp and appreciate the spectacle spread before him? The ornate sculpture work and the wealth of color are like no other landscape. They suggest an alien world. The scale is too outrageous. The sheer size and majesty engulf the intruder, surpassing his ability to take it in.”Anyone who has stood on the rim and looked down into Grand Canyon would readily echo these words as one’s breath is taken away with the sheer magnitude of the spectacle. The Canyon stretches for 446 km (277 miles) through northern Arizona, attains a depth of more than 1.6 km (1 mile), and ranges from 6.4 km (4 miles) to 29 km (18 miles) in width.In the walls of the Canyon can be seen flat-lying rock layers that were once sand, mud or lime.

God is holy because he is loving but also just. God's Love and Justice

How are love and justice harmonious? Can God be both loving and just? Many times in Scripture, we see God's justice poured out on the people. It often seems so severe and unloving. For example, God judged Adam and Eve (Genesis 3), the world of Noah's day (Genesis 6–8), Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18–19), and the Egyptians with the 10 plagues (Exodus 7–12). God judged many individuals too, such as: Nadab and Abihu (Leviticus 10:1-3), Achan (Joshua 7), Belshazzar (Daniel 5). How could God have sent judgment on these people and still be considered loving, merciful, gracious, and forgiving? And today, we often see judgment on those who seem undeserving. How can God’s love and justice work together?

We know that God's attributes work harmoniously. The idea that justice and love conflict, is the result of the attributes being defined in isolation from one another. In other words, in order to understand justice, we need to understand God's love. In order to understand His love, we need to understand His justice.

Greek myths having a flood means that those people knew about the same flood event that the Bible talks about.

The Avesta is from the 13th century AD, and the oldest complete manuscripts of the Christian Bible is from the 4th century AD.

The Bible is the only belief system where God reaches out to humanity. In other belief systems humanity reaches out to God.

You can't compare the Bible to the Matrix because the Matrix copied the Bible and has themes of the false doctrine of Gnosticism, which minimizes the divinity of Jesus. There's so much evidence of Christ that cannot be denied, so people try to say that he is a good man or a prophet and not God.

The Gnostic Matrix

In the wake of the mega-hit move The Matrix, which features gnostic themes, Don Closson examines gnosticism and the influence this philosophy has on our culture.

When The Matrix came out in 1999, it became an instant hit movie and a trend setter for the science fiction genre. The story takes place in a future dystopia where intelligent machines have taken over and are farming humans to generate electrical power. The matrix itself is a computer program that gives humans the illusion that they are living in a late twentieth century world when, in reality, they are existing in womb-like pods that provide nutrients while siphoning off the natural electrical current that human bodies create. The movie is known both for its visual style and its references to many postmodern and religious ideas. The writers used a biblical motif throughout their story. The main character of the movie Neo, played by Keanu Reeves, is called the “one.” He dies and comes to life again after being kissed by a love interest named Trinity. In this resurrected state he is able to destroy the evil agents within the matrix and appears to ascend into the heavens at the end of the movie. A ship called the Nebuchadnezzar is used by the rebel humans to hide from the intelligent machines and to search for the lost city of Zion. However, in spite of its use of many biblical terms, this is not a Christian movie.

 

[Skywalker]

There's no such thing as sin. It's a human construct invented by the early church leaders to make dumb pagans who were forced to join the RCC subservient to them by requiring that they make confession to a priest in order to get absolution for their sins. I'm shocked Christians cannot see through this corrupt ruse. They could if they just read something beside their Bible (which they hardly read anyway.)

There's no satan. He's another invention by the church to pin the blame on for goof-ups that are obviously God's fault.

Sin is real. Aren't there laws that people have to follow? Sin is any behavior that separates people from God. The Catholic Church made people pay indulgences, which goes against the Bible's teachings that only Jesus forgives. The Bible never says to confess your sins to anyone but Jesus.

Satan is not an invention of the church. The Old and New Testament both talk about the existence of Satan. If there is good,there is evil.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Sin is real. Aren't there laws that people have to follow? Sin is any behavior that separates people from God. The Catholic Church made people pay indulgences, which goes against the Bible's teachings that only Jesus forgives. The Bible never says to confess your sins to anyone but Jesus.

Satan is not an invention of the church. The Old and New Testament both talk about the existence of Satan. If there is good,there is evil.

So if the RCC was teaching wrong why did God let it lead so many people astray and not lift a finger to stop it like he did in the Old Testament? I'll tell you why: because he doesn't give two cents about what people do here. All that punishment stuff in the OT is just Jewish lore. God proves he doesn't care about man-made ideas like sin because he doesn't take action against it. He's a deist God. he simply doesn't care about us. That's your proof.

 

[Skywalker]

So if the RCC was teaching wrong why did God let it lead so many people astray and not lift a finger to stop it like he did in the Old Testament? I'll tell you why: because he doesn't give two cents about what people do here. All that punishment stuff in the OT is just Jewish lore. God proves he doesn't care about man-made ideas like sin because he doesn't take action against it. He's a deist God. he simply doesn't care about us. That's your proof.

God allowed the Israelites in the Old Testament to follow false teachings about paganism. Jesus talked more about hello than heaven. The idea of punishment is talked about in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, the Israelites spared Rahab and she was included in the Israelite nation and she was an ancestor of Jesus. God was merciful in the Old Testament.

 

[Skywalker]

What is the purpose of a tick? A mosquito? Strokes? Cancer? Shall I go on?

Strokes and cancer exist because of the fall. After original sin thorns existed in nature.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, you don't need Jesus to have a relationship with God. Skip the man from Galilee who never really existed anyway and pray directly to God.

Jesus didn't just die on the cross so that we could be forgiven of our sins but also that we could come before God. He came to remove the barrier of sin from between people and God.