Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

[gnostic]

Nothing has always existed, everything is a creation. The first one to start creation is God. Creation is first invisible as God is, it has to first be thought about before it is created to touch, then it is created to see and touch. When we see our home we do not see the ones that created it, but we see the work. We see the world, but we do not see the Creator. We know that creation comes from knowledge and power.

People created God, not God created humans.

People have also created religions and wrote scriptures.

Humans are superstitious lots…they attempt to describe some things in the world that they cannot comprehend & explain, so they make up a god or 2, with special powers…sort of like today’s cartoonist creating superhero or super-villain with otherworldly powers.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

People created God, not God created humans.

People have also created religions and wrote scriptures.

Humans are superstitious lots…they attempt to describe some things in the world that they cannot comprehend & explain, so they make up a god or 2, with special powers…sort of like today’s cartoonist creating superhero or super-villain with otherworldly powers.

There is a difference between a real thing and the concept that is meant to represent it. People create concepts, they do not necessarily create the reality the concept represents.

 

[Pogo]

There is a difference between a real thing and the concept that is meant to represent it. People create concepts, they do not necessarily create the reality the concept represents.

Nobody is arguing that, people have created all manner of things that don't exist, for real things it is nice to have evidence that you can show someone other than yourself.

 

[YoursTrue]

People created God, not God created humans.

People have also created religions and wrote scriptures.

Humans are superstitious lots…they attempt to describe some things in the world that they cannot comprehend & explain, so they make up a god or 2, with special powers…sort of like today’s cartoonist creating superhero or super-villain with otherworldly powers.

There is no doubt there are things unseen.

 

[Pogo]

There is no doubt there are things unseen.

I know, I used to ride by Carl Sagan's garage and I never saw the unicorn even when the door was open.

 

[YoursTrue]

I know, I used to ride by Carl Sagan's garage and I never saw the unicorn even when the door was open.

cute.

 

[Pogo]

cute.

http://people.whitman.edu/~herbrawt/classes/110/Sagan.pdf

It's been a while, I didn't see the dragon or the invisible pink unicorn.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nobody is arguing that, people have created all manner of things that don't exist, for real things it is nice to have evidence that you can show someone other than yourself.

There are many real things that you can't show directly, just infer, but to dogmatically demand physical evidence for every concept is being 'narrow minded', I think the term is.

 

[Jimmy]

Why didn't the universe always exist? Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation? Any thoughts on this?

He used a man to establish a time frame.

 

[gnostic]

There is no doubt there are things unseen.

Well, I haven’t seen a hydrogen atom, I know its effect after chemical reaction, and goes pop from a flame.

I don’t seen electricity, but I know of its effect, and electricity is real, since my microwave oven and my heat cannot run without electricity, and if I am not careful, I could be electrocuted.

My eyesight is poor, so i cannot see the Andromeda Galaxy even on clear moon-less night.

All these are real, and unseen by me.

The same cannot be said about God. And the older I get, the more certain I am that people invented God.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Well, I haven’t seen a hydrogen atom, I know its effect after chemical reaction, and goes pop from a flame.

I don’t seen electricity, but I know of its effect, and electricity is real, since my microwave oven and my heat cannot run without electricity, and if I am not careful, I could be electrocuted.

My eyesight is poor, so i cannot see the Andromeda Galaxy even on clear moon-less night.

All these are real, and unseen by me.

The same cannot be said about God. And the older I get, the more certain I am that people invented God.

Ok, you apparently are not aware of God according to panetheism, just look out of your eyes and see reality, that is God.

pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, I haven’t seen a hydrogen atom, I know its effect after chemical reaction, and goes pop from a flame.

I don’t seen electricity, but I know of its effect, and electricity is real, since my microwave oven and my heat cannot run without electricity, and if I am not careful, I could be electrocuted.

My eyesight is poor, so i cannot see the Andromeda Galaxy even on clear moon-less night.

All these are real, and unseen by me.

The same cannot be said about God. And the older I get, the more certain I am that people invented God.

Obviously we have differing views. The older I get, the more I look *into* the mechanisms of organisms as outlined by scientists in journals and research papers, I realize that there is a Creator, i.e., a Superior Intelligent Power that started and allows the continuance of life on earth.

 

[gnostic]

Ok, you apparently are not aware of God according to panetheism, just look out of your eyes and see reality, that is God.

No, I don’t see “God” in everything, nor attach “God” onto everything I see.

if I did, then it would be horrible to look at Donald Trump, and say “God”.

The only thing I wanted to do, when I see him, would be to do the double-eye poke on Trump with my fingers, like in The Three Stooges.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

People created God, not God created humans.

People have also created religions and wrote scriptures.

Humans are superstitious lots…they attempt to describe some things in the world that they cannot comprehend & explain, so they make up a god or 2, with special powers…sort of like today’s cartoonist creating superhero or super-villain with otherworldly powers.

Well, as long as you don't claim that is in the end true or what ever, then okay.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, I don’t see “God” in everything, nor attach “God” onto everything I see.

if I did, then it would be horrible to look at Donald Trump, and say “God”.

The only thing I wanted to do, when I see him, would be to do the double-eye poke on Trump with my fingers, like in The Three Stooges.

Yes, because you do not identify the reality represented by the concept 'God' with the universe as a pantheist does.

So you do not see the universe as having life or intelligence?

No, Donald is not God, like the cells in your body are not you. All that exists is an indivisible whole, God.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why didn't the universe always exist? Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation? Any thoughts on this?

By the evidence our universe may or may not have always existed, but the Quantum World where the singularity existed that expanded to form our universe has no known beginning or possible end or limits beyond our universe

The current view i Physics ad cosmology is our universe is boundless according to the Hawking-Hartle theory:

Origin of the Universe: How Did It Begin and How Will It End? | American Public University

Origin of the universe: This article explores various theories about how the universe got started and how it will end.

www.apu.apus.edu

The Boundless Universe theory, developed by Stephen Hawking and Jim Hartle, suggests that the universe has no boundaries. The theory states that a surface without corners or sides, like a sphere, has no defined end and can therefore be considered boundless. This would mean that the universe is infinitely large, and the observable universe is only a small fraction of the whole.

Roger Penrose theory of a Cyclic Universe

Breaking the Big Bang Barrier: Penrose’s Vision for a Cyclical Universe(1)

The mysteries of the universe have captivated us for centuries, inspiring scientists, philosophers, and poets alike. From the depths of space to the smallest subatomic particles, we continue to uncover secrets that challenge our understanding of reality.

www.linkedin.com

British mathematical physicist Roger Penrose's theory of conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC) proposes that the universe is part of an infinite sequence of universes that emerge over vast periods of time, each resulting in a new Big Bang. Penrose suggests that the universe is an extended conformal manifold, made up of a succession of eons, each of which gives rise to a complete history of an expanding universe. He claims that there is evidence of a remnant from a previous cycle.

Other universe theories do not consider our physical existence to have a beginning or an end:

Other theories related to the universe include:

• Infinite Universe Theory
  This theory suggests that if a spaceship were to travel to the edge of the universe, it would continue to fly past planets, moons, suns, and black holes forever.
• Multiverse Theory
  This theory suggests that our universe may be just one of many in a larger "multiverse", with each universe having its own distinct characteristics, physical laws, and constants.
• Big Bounce Theory
  This theory suggests that the universe could collapse back to its beginning state and then initiate another Big Bang, allowing the universe to last forever.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why didn't the universe always exist? Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation? Any thoughts on this?

What is the evidence that our universe began to exist?

 

[shunyadragon]

A logical fallacy known as an argument from incredulity.

I call it an intentional ignorance of science.

 

[shunyadragon]

Interesting answer. However, according to Jewish and Chrisitan beliefs (although, I'm not really sure about other theist religions), the universe only came into existence only 3.8 billion years ago.

Actually ~13.7 billion years ago the universe began to expand from a singularity.

And with some fundamental Christians saying only 6 thousand years ago. However, with their belief in an eternal God who has always existed, then the universe should have always existed too.

The Baha'i Faith believes our physical existence is eternal with God.

 

[firedragon]

Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation?

Your statement is a contradiction brother. Because when a being is outside of time, there is no concept of a point in time for the being. That point in time is only relevant to those time is of effect. Maybe you should read this post below.

God, Free-will, and the knowledge of God - Is his knowledge causation?

I wished to address this point because it's a very common objection to God's knowledge and Free-will. It's predominantly an Atheistic argument but some theists also find it confusing. The problem with this is we see time as linear. We don't really know what's gonna happen tomorrow. We don't...

www.religiousforums.com