Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

[Ben Dhyan]

Of course. There are times when one feels a sense of connection to nature and life associated with a sense of awe and often gratitude as when gazing at the night sky and contemplating the dimensions and one's history and connection to those stars. Or when enjoying a beautiful sunset or a beautiful passage of music.

Incidentally, that's the first specific thing you've mentioned about whatever it is you are pursuing. At last, some common ground, something that I can relate to.

My problem is that I have asked a large number of RF posters (and another site before this one) the same questions I asked you. What are you pursuing and what are you receiving, and I can't think of a single example of any of them telling me anything that wasn't fluff - empty words, or what I called poetry.

Now you've mentioned I can understand. And if that's all that all of this is, why spend years in religious practice when that is available without it?

Why would I do that to find out if there is something there when the people who do that can't say a word that makes it seem worthwhile?

I did have a decade in Christianity, wherein I also had spiritual experiences and which I attributed to the Holy Spirit. I later came to understand that I was experiencing euphoric states in church at the hand of a gifted and charismatic preacher identical to the states I experience today with rapturous music, for example, and which, as @Polymath257 said, I have come to understand is an endogenous mental state.

That experience in religion taught me that there was nothing substantive there.

I think I do. I've asked you repeatedly to describe it. Unless you're holding something back, I think I understand that "reality" fairly well.

I think I grabbed the baby from the bathwater and took it with me.

You're correct that I have no further interest in religion. I think I have enough personal experience and the testimony of others to know that whatever benefit I experienced there is available without spending time in meditation or whatever your practices are.

Look, if there's more to it than you and others have said, I ought to know that by now. I ought to have gotten a taste in my religious days. One of the people I've questioned ought to have been able to say something meaningful to me. Some of you ought to seem to have something I'm lacking and would like for myself.

My musical adventure was a spiritual experience. The first time I heard Blue Sky by the Allman Brothers, it was so beautiful that it took my breath away. I remember thinking that these people are singing with their hands, and it was like flying. I wondered if I could learn to do that.

Not long after, I got my first electric guitar, and even thought I couldn't play it, just making sound with it was also a high. I couldn't put it down. I practiced four hours every weekday evening and ten hours every weekend day. And that went on for years. Eventually, I became proficient, and eventually played in and then later formed bands. I taught my wife to play bass, and we performed for years in restaurants and coffee houses.

That has been a spiritual journey. One point I'm making is that there was immediate feedback that I was on to something meaningful to me unlike with religion and meditation. I had the euphoric experience in church, which kept me coming back, but as I explained, I later discovered that experiences like that were available to me without religion. They were available playing guitar, for example.

And that's the other point: Like I said, I grabbed the baby from the bathwater. I learned how to reproduce those spiritual experiences without religion once I understood that they had nothing to do with spirits.

I'll share some of that with you. Here's our version of Blue Sky (I did eventually learn to sing with my hands, and later, my vocal cords). This is Ricky on lead vocals and rhythm guitar, my wife on bass and backup vocals, me on lead guitar and backup vocals, and a digital drummer. Won't you take a trip with us and Mr. Bluebird down to Carolina to walk along the river?

You keep asking me and others, " What are you pursuing and what are you receiving?" and I keep trying to explain that the transcendent religious state is non-dual, one is one with all that is. The pursuer and the pursued are one, the seeker and the sought are one, the meditator and the meditation are one. The reason one sometimes has a 'religious' experience looking at the sunset, etc., is not the seeing per se, but the fact that the mind is temporarily silent, ie., not thinking, due to the stunning beauty, as soon as you begin ruminating on the experience, the 'religious' experience fades away and all that is left is the memory which you then talk about, which is all just vanity.

The important point I can make is that it is the still mind, a non-dual state of mind free from any and all thought, that brings on the truly religious experience, it is not seeing an awesome sight. There is no experiencer and an experience experienced, that all comes later from memory, and is vanity.

You keep talking about your religious experiences, but there are no truly religious experiences for you (or me) to have, for when your mind is still, and a state of non-duality is present, the ego self is not present. The way I phrase it is that, of the two selves, the ego self and the spiritual Self, only the spiritual Self is non-dual, so the ego self can never have a direct religious experience. Though it can and does have access to the memory of a religious experience, and erroneously claims it had the experience.

Nice story about your music in your life, and I can see why you may associate it with religious experience. There would be times no doubt when, it is not a beautiful sunset, but beautiful music, that put your mind in a state on non-duality (no ego self present) and a real religious experience would pursue. But your ego mind at the time is not actively interacting, only later to arise again after the fact and it is now only a memory in the mind, ie., a state of duality.

So I can see where you are coming from, and understand to some extent why you think what you have been experiencing is religious, but be assured, there is much more to the still mind state than you are presently are aware. For that potential to be realized, one must be able to still the mind and continue to increase the length of time spent in the non-dual state until spiritual transcendence occurs.

 

[We Never Know]

There's this ...

The universe had a secret life before the Big Bang, new study hints

The universe had a secret life before the Big Bang, new study hints

The secrets of black holes and dark matter could lie before the Big Bang, a new study of "bouncing" cosmology hints.

www.livescience.com

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And you do. QED

I the ego self is mortal, it cannot ever attain to a state non-duality. It can however, through appropriate religious practice, cease to arise to disturb the deeper mind so the mind is in a state of non-duality.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you? Why then does that never appear in your assessment of the world?

THAT's what you write about: greed, violence, corruption, suicide and overdose.

I only bring this to your attention because I think that your religion has taught you that the world is a bad place but not that it can also be paradise on earth and is for many. It is for me and for many if not most of the people living around me and might be for you as well. Life is safe and comfortable for most of my local demographic, and we live in an area where everything grows. The weather is temperate but tropical fruit grows here. We grow mangoes and avocados here. My wife also picks her dill, fennel, serrano peppers, and lemons from her garden.

I'll bet that your life is similar. It's a shame to have so much and go through life not noticing.

Yes, I know.

You ignored "Why do you suppose that they teach you that what obviously is an animal - man- is not that? It's because they want you to believe that you are inherently different and special due to an unseen god creating you in its image and inserting a soul into you but not the beasts. OK. I suppose that's a harmless belief. But what would be the harm in understanding that man is an animal? Do you find that demeaning?"

I guess that you had no disagreement with my suggested answer.

There is nothing embarrassing or demeaning about being an animal or an ape unless some religion or other ism tells you otherwise. Are you embarrassed that you literally once were an infant that tantrummed and soiled her diaper?

Probably not, nor should you be. But isn't that an even more negative depiction of you than calling you an ape or n animal?


Disagree emphatically. I don't do that, yet I have and still do make a difference. I spent three years in the Army. I was a physician for decades with great success healing and grateful patients. I played live music for people that came to hear it. I have been a bridge mentor and teacher. I have been a good husband. And we have cared for many rescue dogs including the two who live very safe and happy lives like we do.

And I hope and think that I make a difference on RF. I've tried to do that for you and your psychological state, but it looks like in vain.

Why? Because I'm a humanist and hold humanist values. I believe in the potential for dignity and nobility in human beings. Many distracted by toxic isms and don't achieve that, but many others avoid those ideologies and do.

We are different form the beasts, but that doesn't make us not apes or animals.

So are you a member of the AHA? Years ago before I studied the Bible with those who embraced a view I really appreciated about Jesus, I was asked to take care of a young persons group at a local humanist group since the class teacher or monitor (not sure) was absent. I noticed the children were very friendly and cordial. Since I was a musician, I really just kept these kids amused for one session. I remember them being very pleasant children.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you? Why then does that never appear in your assessment of the world?

THAT's what you write about: greed, violence, corruption, suicide and overdose.

I only bring this to your attention because I think that your religion has taught you that the world is a bad place but not that it can also be paradise on earth and is for many. It is for me and for many if not most of the people living around me and might be for you as well. Life is safe and comfortable for most of my local demographic, and we live in an area where everything grows. The weather is temperate but tropical fruit grows here. We grow mangoes and avocados here. My wife also picks her dill, fennel, serrano peppers, and lemons from her garden.

I'll bet that your life is similar. It's a shame to have so much and go through life not noticing.

Yes, I know.

You ignored "Why do you suppose that they teach you that what obviously is an animal - man- is not that? It's because they want you to believe that you are inherently different and special due to an unseen god creating you in its image and inserting a soul into you but not the beasts. OK. I suppose that's a harmless belief. But what would be the harm in understanding that man is an animal? Do you find that demeaning?"

I guess that you had no disagreement with my suggested answer.

There is nothing embarrassing or demeaning about being an animal or an ape unless some religion or other ism tells you otherwise. Are you embarrassed that you literally once were an infant that tantrummed and soiled her diaper?

Probably not, nor should you be. But isn't that an even more negative depiction of you than calling you an ape or n animal?


Disagree emphatically. I don't do that, yet I have and still do make a difference. I spent three years in the Army. I was a physician for decades with great success healing and grateful patients. I played live music for people that came to hear it. I have been a bridge mentor and teacher. I have been a good husband. And we have cared for many rescue dogs including the two who live very safe and happy lives like we do.

And I hope and think that I make a difference on RF. I've tried to do that for you and your psychological state, but it looks like in vain.

Why? Because I'm a humanist and hold humanist values. I believe in the potential for dignity and nobility in human beings. Many distracted by toxic isms and don't achieve that, but many others avoid those ideologies and do.

We are different form the beasts, but that doesn't make us not apes or animals.

When I took biology I believed everything they taught me. I was not embarrassed to be classified in the genre of apes or animals according to the scientific definition. I no longer go along with that classification.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you? Why then does that never appear in your assessment of the world?

THAT's what you write about: greed, violence, corruption, suicide and overdose.

I only bring this to your attention because I think that your religion has taught you that the world is a bad place but not that it can also be paradise on earth and is for many. It is for me and for many if not most of the people living around me and might be for you as well. Life is safe and comfortable for most of my local demographic, and we live in an area where everything grows. The weather is temperate but tropical fruit grows here. We grow mangoes and avocados here. My wife also picks her dill, fennel, serrano peppers, and lemons from her garden.

I'll bet that your life is similar. It's a shame to have so much and go through life not noticing.

Yes, I know.

You ignored "Why do you suppose that they teach you that what obviously is an animal - man- is not that? It's because they want you to believe that you are inherently different and special due to an unseen god creating you in its image and inserting a soul into you but not the beasts. OK. I suppose that's a harmless belief. But what would be the harm in understanding that man is an animal? Do you find that demeaning?"

I guess that you had no disagreement with my suggested answer.

There is nothing embarrassing or demeaning about being an animal or an ape unless some religion or other ism tells you otherwise. Are you embarrassed that you literally once were an infant that tantrummed and soiled her diaper?

Probably not, nor should you be. But isn't that an even more negative depiction of you than calling you an ape or n animal?


Disagree emphatically. I don't do that, yet I have and still do make a difference. I spent three years in the Army. I was a physician for decades with great success healing and grateful patients. I played live music for people that came to hear it. I have been a bridge mentor and teacher. I have been a good husband. And we have cared for many rescue dogs including the two who live very safe and happy lives like we do.

And I hope and think that I make a difference on RF. I've tried to do that for you and your psychological state, but it looks like in vain.

Why? Because I'm a humanist and hold humanist values. I believe in the potential for dignity and nobility in human beings. Many distracted by toxic isms and don't achieve that, but many others avoid those ideologies and do.

We are different form the beasts, but that doesn't make us not apes or animals.

Man is continuing to ruin the atmosphere. Reports in the news of school shootings had one school employee aptly say that things are out of control. But there are going to be major changes coming from God. Not from man but men will be involved. For that I am happy to know. Thank you for expressing yourself. I am looking forward to an earth where there is no more crime, violence, or greed.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you? Why then does that never appear in your assessment of the world?

THAT's what you write about: greed, violence, corruption, suicide and overdose.

I only bring this to your attention because I think that your religion has taught you that the world is a bad place but not that it can also be paradise on earth and is for many. It is for me and for many if not most of the people living around me and might be for you as well. Life is safe and comfortable for most of my local demographic, and we live in an area where everything grows. The weather is temperate but tropical fruit grows here. We grow mangoes and avocados here. My wife also picks her dill, fennel, serrano peppers, and lemons from her garden.

I'll bet that your life is similar. It's a shame to have so much and go through life not noticing.

Yes, I know.

You ignored "Why do you suppose that they teach you that what obviously is an animal - man- is not that? It's because they want you to believe that you are inherently different and special due to an unseen god creating you in its image and inserting a soul into you but not the beasts. OK. I suppose that's a harmless belief. But what would be the harm in understanding that man is an animal? Do you find that demeaning?"

I guess that you had no disagreement with my suggested answer.

There is nothing embarrassing or demeaning about being an animal or an ape unless some religion or other ism tells you otherwise. Are you embarrassed that you literally once were an infant that tantrummed and soiled her diaper?

Probably not, nor should you be. But isn't that an even more negative depiction of you than calling you an ape or n animal?


Disagree emphatically. I don't do that, yet I have and still do make a difference. I spent three years in the Army. I was a physician for decades with great success healing and grateful patients. I played live music for people that came to hear it. I have been a bridge mentor and teacher. I have been a good husband. And we have cared for many rescue dogs including the two who live very safe and happy lives like we do.

And I hope and think that I make a difference on RF. I've tried to do that for you and your psychological state, but it looks like in vain.

Why? Because I'm a humanist and hold humanist values. I believe in the potential for dignity and nobility in human beings. Many distracted by toxic isms and don't achieve that, but many others avoid those ideologies and do.

We are different form the beasts, but that doesn't make us not apes or animals.

Many people enjoy gardening. Others devote their life to different pursuits. This does not mean that crime, violence and greed will not continue. It is not a pessimistic attitude; it is realistic. Only God can truly solve mankind's problems.

 

[ratiocinator]

Experience is experience, religious or nor, it is not thought.

And experience is personal, subjective, and demonstrably unreliable at best, because people who rely on personal experience differ in their conclusions.

 

[ratiocinator]

There's this ...

The universe had a secret life before the Big Bang, new study hints

The universe had a secret life before the Big Bang, new study hints

The secrets of black holes and dark matter could lie before the Big Bang, a new study of "bouncing" cosmology hints.

www.livescience.com

Another rather depressing pop-science article.

It's another quite interesting conjecture but the article doesn't tell you much about it and you'd think from the headline it had been confirmed. Then there's the depressing misrepresentation of the standard view as starting with a singularity. Nobody in cosmology really takes that seriously.

Did The Universe Really Begin With a Singularity?

Did the universe begin with a singularity? A point in space and/or a moment in time where everything in the universe was crushed together, infinitely hot and infinitely densely packed? Doesn&#8217…

profmattstrassler.com

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And experience is personal, subjective, and demonstrably unreliable at best, because people who rely on personal experience differ in their conclusions.

Correct, but apparently you do not understand what has been explained to you, the ego self is dualistic in function, soul awareness is non-dual.

You think of experience in dualistic terms, the ego self having a religious experience, the truth is that the ego self cannot have a religious experience as the true religious experience is non-dual, and the ego self functions in duality. However, the ego self does have access to the memory associated with a religious experience, and imagines it had the experience. To reiterate, a spiritual experience is a non-dual mind state, the ego self is still during the experience but has access to the memory of the spiritual experience after it is over.

And in case it is not clear, when religion talks of immortality, being born of the spirit, attaining to Heaven, etc., it is not referring to the ego self for it is mortal, and has physical, emotional, and mental experiences, but not spiritual.

 

[ratiocinator]

Correct, but apparently you do not understand what has been explained to you, the ego self is dualistic in function, soul awareness is non-dual.

You think of experience in dualistic terms, the ego self having a religious experience, the truth is that the ego self cannot have a religious experience as the true religious experience is non-dual, and the ego self functions in duality. However, the ego self does have access to the memory associated with a religious experience, and imagines it had the experience. To reiterate, a spiritual experience is a non-dual mind state, the ego self is still during the experience but has access to the memory of the spiritual experience after it is over.

And in case it is not clear, when religion talks of immortality, being born of the spirit, attaining to Heaven, etc., it is not referring to the ego self for it is mortal, and has physical, emotional, and mental experiences, but not spiritual.

So experiences are unreliable except when they're like yours, and then it's totally reliable. That's convincing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So experiences are unreliable except when they're like yours, and then it's totally reliable. That's convincing.

If that's how you interpreted what was explained, then clearly you still do not understand what is being said to you.

Never mind, God bless.

 

[ratiocinator]

If that's how you interpreted what was explained, then clearly you still do not understand what is being said to you.

It really isn't a question of understanding what you say, it's a question of whether it is a personal subjective experience or a genuine insight into reality. I see no reason at all to think the latter because people who tell us about their own personal experiences giving them insight into reality are two-a-penny and they disagree with each other.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It really isn't a question of understanding what you say, it's a question of whether it is a personal subjective experience or a genuine insight into reality. I see no reason at all to think the latter because people who tell us about their own personal experiences giving them insight into reality are two-a-penny and they disagree with each other.

Oh, well it is refreshing to know that it wasn't just your closed mind atheistic beliefs, you would be really surprised how prejudiced some atheists are when it comes to the religious discussions. God bless.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You keep asking me and others, " What are you pursuing and what are you receiving?" and I keep trying to explain that the transcendent religious state is non-dual, one is one with all that is.

And I keep telling you that those words mean nothing specific. What exactly are you seeking and why should others find it valuable?

The important point I can make is that it is the still mind, a non-dual state of mind free from any and all thought, that brings on the truly religious experience

You're not making a point. Your writing words with no clear meaning or referent. What's a "truly religious experience" and what value would there be in that for somebody who already feels centered, complete, and content? You give someone like me no reason to believe that you're on to anything. You've said nothing to make me think that even if there was something to whatever it is you do that it would be worth pursuing. You don't seem smarter or happier than people who disregard all of that, so what's the appeal?

Nice story about your music in your life, and I can see why you may associate it with religious experience.

Thanks, but I don't. I called it a spiritual experience.

If that's how you interpreted what was explained, then clearly you still do not understand what is being said to you.

Once again, what do you think you have explained? You still haven't described what your experience is or why others should want it for themselves. Words like nonduality and quieting the mind simply aren't meaningful or helpful. You're describing unconsciousness. I'm not looking for that. My mind is quite active, and that pleases and entertains me. All conscious experience is subject-object duality, and why would we want it any other way?

So are you a member of the AHA?

If that's a humanist association, then no. I don't belong to any organization.

Man is continuing to ruin the atmosphere. Reports in the news of school shootings had one school employee aptly say that things are out of control. But there are going to be major changes coming from God. Not from man but men will be involved. For that I am happy to know. Thank you for expressing yourself. I am looking forward to an earth where there is no more crime, violence, or greed.

I guess I made no impact on your thinking. While you're thinking about the doom and gloom in the world, I'll be having a nice day. The high is expected to be 77 deg F and the low tonight 65 deg F. I have online bridge with Neal this morning from 8:30-10 AM, and we'll be meeting Ralph and Trish here at the house at 4PM for wine and conversation before walking a quarter mile to Min-Wah for Peking duck.

The atmosphere is clear and we have no school shootings here. I expect no suicides or overdoses to intersect with my day - just leisure, beauty, and stimulating experiences with friends.

Many people enjoy gardening. Others devote their life to different pursuits. This does not mean that crime, violence and greed will not continue

Is that what occupies your mind when gardening? My wife finds gardening a spiritual experience. It's a time she feels connected to the earth, the flowers and herbs, and the butterflies and birds in the birdbath. I'll bet that she never thinks of crime, violence, or greed while doing that.

It is not a pessimistic attitude; it is realistic.

Disagree twice.

Only God can truly solve mankind's problems.

That god hasn't done that yet. But man has solved many problems. Of course, you're likely unaware of that. All you seem to see is greed, corruption, violence, air pollution, suicide, school shootings and drug overdoses. And it seems that that isn't going to change whatever you are told or whatever is actually going on in your daily life.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And I keep telling you that those words mean nothing specific. What exactly are you seeking and why should others find it valuable?

You're not making a point. Your writing words with no clear meaning or referent. What's a "truly religious experience" and what value would there be in that for somebody who already feels centered, complete, and content? You give someone like me no reason to believe that you're on to anything. You've said nothing to make me think that even if there was something to whatever it is you do that it would be worth pursuing. You don't seem smarter or happier than people who disregard all of that, so what's the appeal?

Thanks, but I don't. I called it a spiritual experience.

Once again, what do you think you have explained? You still haven't described what your experience is or why others should want it for themselves. Words like nonduality and quieting the mind simply aren't meaningful or helpful. You're describing unconsciousness. I'm not looking for that. My mind is quite active, and that pleases and entertains me. All conscious experience is subject-object duality, and why would we want it any other way?

I'm not seeking anything, I have been responding to your comments to me and explaining to you why your present understanding of religion is incorrect.

As an atheist, if you do not want help in understanding the purpose and benefits of religious practice, in future it is better to not ask, particularly if you are content with your atheistic beliefs.

God is spirit, you can't have a spiritual experience without it be religious. Religion is derived from Latin meaning to 'tie back again', similar to the concept of yoga, meaning union. The Father and I are one.

Ok, since you are unaware of having, or have not yet, realized the state of non-duality, it is impossible for you to know what the reality is, represented by the concept, so don't ask and you save us both time. Yes correct, atheism is dualistic,

 

[YoursTrue]

And I keep telling you that those words mean nothing specific. What exactly are you seeking and why should others find it valuable?

You're not making a point. Your writing words with no clear meaning or referent. What's a "truly religious experience" and what value would there be in that for somebody who already feels centered, complete, and content? You give someone like me no reason to believe that you're on to anything. You've said nothing to make me think that even if there was something to whatever it is you do that it would be worth pursuing. You don't seem smarter or happier than people who disregard all of that, so what's the appeal?

Thanks, but I don't. I called it a spiritual experience.

Once again, what do you think you have explained? You still haven't described what your experience is or why others should want it for themselves. Words like nonduality and quieting the mind simply aren't meaningful or helpful. You're describing unconsciousness. I'm not looking for that. My mind is quite active, and that pleases and entertains me. All conscious experience is subject-object duality, and why would we want it any other way?

If that's a humanist association, then no. I don't belong to any organization.

I guess I made no impact on your thinking. While you're thinking about the doom and gloom in the world, I'll be having a nice day. The high is expected to be 77 deg F and the low tonight 65 deg F. I have online bridge with Neal this morning from 8:30-10 AM, and we'll be meeting Ralph and Trish here at the house at 4PM for wine and conversation before walking a quarter mile to Min-Wah for Peking duck.

The atmosphere is clear and we have no school shootings here. I expect no suicides or overdoses to intersect with my day - just leisure, beauty, and stimulating experiences with friends.

Is that what occupies your mind when gardening? My wife finds gardening a spiritual experience. It's a time she feels connected to the earth, the flowers and herbs, and the butterflies and birds in the birdbath. I'll bet that she never thinks of crime, violence, or greed while doing that.

Disagree twice.

That god hasn't done that yet. But man has solved many problems. Of course, you're likely unaware of that. All you seem to see is greed, corruption, violence, air pollution, suicide, school shootings and drug overdoses. And it seems that that isn't going to change whatever you are told or whatever is actually going on in your daily life.

Do you read the newspaper? It is more complete than TV news reporting, but in either case there are crimes being committed, some more horrendous than others. My day today wasn't "too bad," despite some crazy drivers, but did you read about Harvey Weinstein being taken to the hospital emergency because he was having heart problems? Not sure if you live in the U.S. but it's headlines here for the most part.

 

[shunyadragon]

There's this ...

The universe had a secret life before the Big Bang, new study hints

The universe had a secret life before the Big Bang, new study hints

The secrets of black holes and dark matter could lie before the Big Bang, a new study of "bouncing" cosmology hints.

www.livescience.com

Careful with misleading titles. Simply it addresses the current physics and cosmology proposals of a cyclic universe as proposed by Hawking-Penrose.

 

[YoursTrue]

And I keep telling you that those words mean nothing specific. What exactly are you seeking and why should others find it valuable?

You're not making a point. Your writing words with no clear meaning or referent. What's a "truly religious experience" and what value would there be in that for somebody who already feels centered, complete, and content? You give someone like me no reason to believe that you're on to anything. You've said nothing to make me think that even if there was something to whatever it is you do that it would be worth pursuing. You don't seem smarter or happier than people who disregard all of that, so what's the appeal?

Thanks, but I don't. I called it a spiritual experience.

Once again, what do you think you have explained? You still haven't described what your experience is or why others should want it for themselves. Words like nonduality and quieting the mind simply aren't meaningful or helpful. You're describing unconsciousness. I'm not looking for that. My mind is quite active, and that pleases and entertains me. All conscious experience is subject-object duality, and why would we want it any other way?

If that's a humanist association, then no. I don't belong to any organization.

I guess I made no impact on your thinking. While you're thinking about the doom and gloom in the world, I'll be having a nice day. The high is expected to be 77 deg F and the low tonight 65 deg F. I have online bridge with Neal this morning from 8:30-10 AM, and we'll be meeting Ralph and Trish here at the house at 4PM for wine and conversation before walking a quarter mile to Min-Wah for Peking duck.

The atmosphere is clear and we have no school shootings here. I expect no suicides or overdoses to intersect with my day - just leisure, beauty, and stimulating experiences with friends.

Is that what occupies your mind when gardening? My wife finds gardening a spiritual experience. It's a time she feels connected to the earth, the flowers and herbs, and the butterflies and birds in the birdbath. I'll bet that she never thinks of crime, violence, or greed while doing that.

Disagree twice.

That god hasn't done that yet. But man has solved many problems. Of course, you're likely unaware of that. All you seem to see is greed, corruption, violence, air pollution, suicide, school shootings and drug overdoses. And it seems that that isn't going to change whatever you are told or whatever is actually going on in your daily life.

I was driving today and saw beautiful white fluffy clouds in a beautiful blue color. I think yes, that God made the circumstances that we can enjoy such gorgeous scenes. Naturally if a person is blind he cannot see such gorgeous hues.

 

[shunyadragon]

I was driving today and saw beautiful white fluffy clouds in a beautiful blue color. I think yes, that God made the circumstances that we can enjoy such gorgeous scenes. Naturally if a person is blind he cannot see such gorgeous hues.

The topic is whether the universe is possibly without a beginning and cyclic, or possibly one universe in a multiverse.