Why do atheist believe something can come from nothing?

[Bob the Unbeliever]

irreducible complexity youtube - Bing video
This needs to be explained, as Darwin said himself,

No. It doesn't. You have failed to show I.C. is real. All creationists have failed that test.

I don't even need to look at whichever lying video you have dug up out of the pits of gross ignorance.

As for Darwin? Who gives a flying fig WHAT he may or may not have allegedly said?

DARWIN IS NO LONGER THE BEST EXPERT WITH RESPECT TO EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY. Not for over a century, in fact....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes, I’m familiar with the...ummm, belief.

Not inside the Natural Universe you can’t.

BINGO! And since we have zero examples of anything-- any phenomena at all-- being "outside"? (if such an idea is even rational or makes sense)

We can dismiss all such phenomena as unlikely in the extreme.

It's akin to asking "what is North of the North Pole?"

 

[Unguru]

Something cannot "just exist", and yet their god does???

In what way do you mean this? (this will be good )

 

[shunyadragon]

Formation of complex biological

care to refute it?

It is the responsibility of the one making the claim either in science or logic. In science you do not refute things. If you consider something is valid in science it is up to you to propose a hypothesis, or in some cases a theory, and than falsify it with scientific methods.

Simply 'complex biological organs tissues and living organisms' exist. It is up to the claimants of Intelligent Design to propose hypothesis and with the objective verifiable evidence, and than falsify that they do not come about by natural processes.

 

[Unguru]

Wow! Has anybody ever seen such wisdom?

In respect of your awesome powers of argument, I think I need waste no more time on you...

You are the person handing me phony arguments that fail themselves.

Now, on your dragon in the garage. You do understand that buying a fashion mag in a dairy requires very similar things as performing open heart surgery. Both require reaching for something, picking up something, grabbing something from another position, placing something somewhere, collecting something else from another person in the room, walking a small distance through the room. If I was an atheist, I'd think buying a fashion mag and performing open heart surgery are identical. And no, you don't get to call me out for these being false equivalence because this is identical to your dragon in the garage analogy, you just want to move the goal posts to keep your fallacious reasoning from being criticized.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And we reject that position, nothing more or less.

How can you reject what another person believes or does not believe? It appears that you are claiming to be a kind reader.

Let me reverse it. How would you react to a person telling you that you did not really believe in a God or gods?

 

[leov]

Irreducible complexity - Wikipedia

The Eye and Irreducible Complexity - Creationism Debunked :: DNA Learning Center

Irreducible complexity - RationalWiki

Of Mousetraps and Men: Behe on Biochemistry

Will they do for a start?

Very simplistic no refutation just defense , nothing specific.. Developing complex structures may take thousands of years of purposeful mutation, many micro every step steps in between may last many generation and be an advantage to continue, that is not accidental process. All evolution was built in potential outcome based on conditions. What was Genetics of the first organism? Or it came with entity number 2? Evolution was built in through genetics with different potential outcome depending on conditions. Btw, that is what Nachmanides pointed, only thing was created ex nihilo was elementary part of matter with built in plan, blueprint of all what will ever appear.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are the person handing me phony arguments that fail themselves.

Now, on your dragon in the garage. You do understand that buying a fashion mag in a dairy requires very similar things as performing open heart surgery. Both require reaching for something, picking up something, grabbing something from another position, placing something somewhere, collecting something else from another person in the room, walking a small distance through the room. If I was an atheist, I'd think buying a fashion mag and performing open heart surgery are identical. And no, you don't get to call me out for these being false equivalence because this is identical to your dragon in the garage analogy, you just want to move the goal posts to keep your fallacious reasoning from being criticized.

No, he gave you a very good analogy of what a religious belief is. It must have been a life-threatening to you since your response is totally off the rails.

It showed why no evidence is needed for a lack of belief in a god.

Here is a simple yes/no question:

Do you believe in his dragon?

 

[shunyadragon]

Very simplistic no refutation just defense , nothing specific.. Developing complex structures may take thousands of years of purposeful mutation, many micro every step steps in between may last many generation and be an advantage to continue, that is not accidental process. All evolution was built in potential outcome based on conditions. What was Genetics of the first organism? Or it came with entity number 2? Evolution was built in through genetics with different potential outcome depending on conditions.

Not a good analogy, and no there are no accidental processes, random happenings, nor accidental cause and effect events. They all are subject to the Laws of Nature. There are accident humans have driving cars and such, but nature is not accidental nor random causes.

Actually evolution has taken place over billions of years to go from the simplist organisms we find in the Precambrian rocks, through many steps of increasing complexity until there was a diverse world of life forms in fungi, viruses, plants, and animals.

 

[Unguru]

Here is a simple yes/no question:

Do you believe in his dragon?

You're doing it wrong and deliberately avoiding the point.
Here is a simple yes/no question:

Do you believe putting a bracelet on your daughter's arm is the same thing as massacring 50 people?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Very simplistic no refutation just defense , nothing specific.. Developing complex structures may take thousands of years of purposeful mutation, many micro every step steps in between may last many generation and be an advantage to continue, that is not accidental process. All evolution was built in potential outcome based on conditions. What was Genetics of the first organism? Or it came with entity number 2? Evolution was built in through genetics with different potential outcome depending on conditions.

No "purposeful mutaion" are needed. Why do you think that is the case?

Two big keys to evolution are variation and natural selection. Small positive changes are up, negative ones are discarded.

it appears at the end that you attempted to move the goal posts to abiogenesis. Let's concentrate on evolution for now.

 

[leov]

It was a trial in which the judge ruled that Creationism (repackaged as ID) was not based in science and was a religious concept.
Science does not owe anyone a refutation of an idea which does not even present a scientific theory to be tested against the evidence.

Maybe this will help you understand:

Browse the Talk.Origins Archive

I understood that it was a refutation but I did not really found, science also said that kerosene melts steel...

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're doing it wrong and deliberately avoiding the point.
Here is a simple yes/no question:

Do you believe putting a bracelet on your daughter's arm is the same thing as massacring 50 people?

Wrong, a nonsensical question is merely a dodge. An indicator that you feel that you are wrong at the very least.
Do you believe in his dragon or not?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understood that it was a refutation but I did not really found, science also said that kerosene melts steel...

Nope, you are confused. Only 9/11 troofers make that gross error.

If you want to discuss that you should start another thread.

 

[shunyadragon]

I understood that it was a refutation but I did not really found, science also said that kerosene melts steel...

, , , kerosene melting steel? Sound like the beginning of a very bad joke

Very confusing, needs clarification. The Creationists failed at Dover, because they failed to present objective verifiable evidence and hypothesis that may be falsified to support Intelligent Design.

 

[Unguru]

Wrong, a nonsensical question is merely a dodge.

I am thrilled you realize this about your dragon in the garage question, now you've admitted to it. Now you can go on with your day knowing how terribly incomparable your dragon in the garage is to the concept of God. These only equate in the sense that putting a bracelet on your daughter's arm is the same thing as massacring 50 people or buying a fashion mag is the same as performing open heart surgery.
I'm glad you've admitted and are willing to learn.

 

[leov]

Nope, you are confused. Only 9/11 troofers make that gross error.

If you want to discuss that you should start another thread.

Lol, and some 3000 professional architects and structural engineers (including myself).

 

[shunyadragon]

Lol, and some 3000 professional architects and structural engineers (including myself).

What's your point? So what?

As side not, humans cannot design and build something that does not follow the Laws of Nature.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am thrilled you realize this about your dragon in the garage question, now you've admitted to it. Now you can go on with your day knowing how terribly incomparable your dragon in the garage is to the concept of God. These only equate in the sense that putting a bracelet on your daughter's arm is the same thing as massacring 50 people or buying a fashion mag is the same as performing open heart surgery.
I'm glad you've admitted and are willing to learn.

that was not my argument, nor was it a dodge.

if you cannot understand analogies, and your failed one indicates that is the case, then you should just say so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol, and some 3000 professional architects and structural engineers (including myself).

That claim is extremely dubious. Start your own thread.

I can't speak for architects, but from my experience their scientific education is lacking, but structural engineers tend to know the difference between steel and aluminum.