Why do atheist believe something can come from nothing?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Ah. Instead of stories of a god existing like the bible has, is it full of opinions trying to convince the readers a god doesn't exist?

Why would that be so bad? We live in a world full of theologians and zealots all trying to convince us that a god does exist, without ever producing a sliver of convincing evidence, except for asserting that something cannot come from nothing without help (while also asserting that the help can come from nothing without its own help) and quoting scriptures written by ordinary humans with ordinary understanding as if they must have had access to god that nobody else does.

That "evidence" seems to be enough to convince a lot of folks (who were, of course, trained with their baby food into it), but not a lot of others, who like a little more substance in their evidence.

 

[ChristineM]

'Irreducible complexity' kills their view, I'd love to see real comment about it besides 'fallacy' silliness.

Irreducible complexity has been totally debunked in court. I am surprised people are still bringing it up


So you see, there is a good reason people call it silliness... Its because its silliness

 

[sooda]

For Bible codes to be any damned good at all you have to assume that no letter ever went missing or was added since the document was first written, in the case of the Torah tradition assigns that to Moses.

The Pentateuch was written during and after the Babylonian exile.. 800 years after Moses.

Bible code - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
The Bible code (Hebrew: הצופן התנ"כי ‎, hatzofen hatanachi), also known as the Torah code, is a purported set of secret messages encoded within the Hebrew text of the Torah.This hidden code has been described as a method by which specific letters from the text can be selected to reveal an otherwise obscured message.

 

[We Never Know]

Why would that be so bad? We live in a world full of theologians and zealots all trying to convince us that a god does exist, without ever producing a sliver of convincing evidence, except for asserting that something cannot come from nothing without help (while also asserting that the help can come from nothing without its own help) and quoting scriptures written by ordinary humans with ordinary understanding as if they must have had access to god that nobody else does.

That "evidence" seems to be enough to convince a lot of folks (who were, of course, trained with their baby food into it), but not a lot of others, who like a little more substance in their evidence.

Exactly. People try to push god does exist and people try to push god doesn't exist. Pushing upon others what one believes, disbelieves, etc makes none better than the other. Either way it's pushing/trying to get them to come to your side. Both use lack of evidence to push their agenda.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The Pentateuch was written during and after the Babylonian exile.. 800 years after Moses.

Bible code - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
The Bible code (Hebrew: הצופן התנ"כי ‎, hatzofen hatanachi), also known as the Torah code, is a purported set of secret messages encoded within the Hebrew text of the Torah.This hidden code has been described as a method by which specific letters from the text can be selected to reveal an otherwise obscured message.

It only works if there were no additions or deletions since it was first written. Since we don't have the originals to check that out, we have no way of knowing the accuracy if the oldest extant complete manuscripts of the Bible were accurately copied or not.

Just comparing the Isaiah Scroll with the Masoretic Text, it is clear that changes were made.

 

[leov]

You mean 99% of the scientists in the disciplines associated with evolution? By the way I am a professional geologist part of the 99%. Pretty big mainstream.

Again . . . To note: 'Irreducible complexity' is an unfalsifiable hypothesis proposed by the Creationists at the Discovery Institute to support the Fundamentalist Christian anti-science agenda.

Years ago I came up with this idea by myself, just did bother ti well to emulate it, it has good sense and bleeds traditional evolution, they can all retire or really try to explain it. I think theory that we are a hologram works better than mainstream evolution theory.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Then you should be able to tell everyone where everything came from starting with where did the singularity come from.
I have no problem saying I don't know what came from what or where it came from.

'Tis a very different thing than saying you don't know, from you believe in XXX.

You have constructed a Straw Man of what I stated. Be a shame if someone were to set it on fire...

 

[leov]

theory.

Irreducible complexity has been totally debunked in court. I am surprised people are still bringing it up


So you see, there is a good reason people call it silliness... Its because its silliness

Link?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Atheism coming up with strange
ideas, while what I said was known for thousands of years by as of today 7 against 93, your statement needs to be supported by a proof.

Shifting the Burden Of Proof Logical Fallacy-- you seem to do that with nearly every inane claim, here.

You are also guilty of Argument By Popularity Logical Fallacy.

"what I said was know for thousands of years" << really? "known"?

Just like humans "knew" the earth was as flat as the bible describes?

Just like humans just "knew" the sun went around the world, and was just a smallish ball of fire?

Lots of things people just "knew" --- that were completely, 100%, wrong.

Whatya know? It appears you are also completely wrong...

 

[We Never Know]

'Tis a very different thing than saying you don't know, from you believe in XXX.

You have constructed a Straw Man of what I stated. Be a shame if someone were to set it on fire...

I'm not saying you believe in XXX.
You say you don't think something came from nothing. Unless you can show where it came from down to the pre big bang, pre singularity, etc, then you don't know and can't rule out something from nothing.
Which is why I stated in reality everyone believes in a form of something from nothing.
We can't even use the laws we know because they break down and probably didn't exist then either.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You're assuming "God" is the Christian God; a powerful old man sitting on a golden throne. Anthropomorphizing a power capable of creating the entire Universe is a mistake, IMO.

Well, of course it is a mistake, to take a purely imaginary construct, and start attaching attributes to it, willy-nilly.

Me? I'm an agnostic-atheist. I do not know, but I've got a pretty good idea.

I do know that you cannot have an Impossible Thing: no such thing as a Married Bachelor, for example. Or a Square Circle.

Thus? The majority of gods, as described, cannot possibly exist.

But nobody is building massively ugly tributes to cash-money, based on undescribed gods, are they? No sir!

We do not grant tax free status to "first and only church of the undefined deity"...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I'm not saying you believe in XXX.
You say you don't think something came from nothing. Unless you can show where it came from down to the pre big bang, pre singularity, etc, then you don't know and can't rule out something from nothing.
Which is why I stated in reality everyone believes in a form of something from nothing.

False again-- you just keep building that Straw Man and then trying to knock it down.

I love how you keep projecting what I must think-- as if I didn't know my own mind....!

I have no beliefs with respect to how the universe got started, prior to the big bang events. It would be senseless to do so anyway-- it'd be like trying to travel North of the North Pole... !

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Evolution takes place. They can not explain what is going on.

Absolutely incorrect. The mountains of evidence which does, in fact, explain "what is going on" would take an ordinary person a lifetime to examine....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

'Irreducible complexity' kills their view, I'd love to see real comment about it besides 'fallacy' silliness.

Absolutely false claim. I have (so far) about 14 links to sites that show the very silly (and very disingenuous) "I.C." to be a scam, in order to sell more books to the very gullible.


1) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/
2) Lines of evidence: The science of evolution
3) http://io9.gizmodo.com/8-scientific-discoveries-that-prove-evolution-is-real-1729902558
4) Human Evolution Evidence
5) How Did Multicellular Life Evolve? - Astrobiology Magazine
6) http://www.talkorigins.org/
7) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/
8) http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/
9) http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
10) http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/…/topicbrowse2.php…
11) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
12) http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_evolution.html
13) http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php
14) http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

 

[We Never Know]

False again-- you just keep building that Straw Man and then trying to knock it down.

I love how you keep projecting what I must think-- as if I didn't know my own mind....!

I have no beliefs with respect to how the universe got started, prior to the big bang events. It would be senseless to do so anyway-- it'd be like trying to travel North of the North Pole... !

What? I'm not projecting what you think. I'm pretty sure you said or implied you don't think something came nothing(see your first post on my post of everyone believes in a form of something from nothing).
That's the limit of what I've said about what you think.

 

[leov]

Absolutely false claim. I have (so far) about 14 links to sites that show the very silly (and very disingenuous) "I.C." to be a scam, in order to sell more books to the very gullible.


1) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/
2) Lines of evidence: The science of evolution
3) http://io9.gizmodo.com/8-scientific-discoveries-that-prove-evolution-is-real-1729902558
4) Human Evolution Evidence
5) How Did Multicellular Life Evolve? - Astrobiology Magazine
6) TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy
7) Evolution
8) 101 Reasons Why Evolution is True | ideonexus.com
9) Human Evolution Evidence
10) http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/…/topicbrowse2.php…
11) Evidence of common descent - Wikipedia
12) http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_evolution.html
13) Understanding Evolution
14) Welcome to Evolution 101!

irreducible complexity youtube - Bing video
This needs to be explained, as Darwin said himself,

 

[ChristineM]

theory.

Link?

Irreducible complexity - Wikipedia

The Eye and Irreducible Complexity - Creationism Debunked :: DNA Learning Center

Irreducible complexity - RationalWiki

Of Mousetraps and Men: Behe on Biochemistry

Will they do for a start?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

theory.

Link?

Kitzmiller v. Dover decision

 

[shunyadragon]

Years ago I came up with this idea by myself, just did bother ti well to emulate it, it has good sense and bleeds traditional evolution, they can all retire or really try to explain it. I think theory that we are a hologram works better than mainstream evolution theory.

Your reference to Irreducible Complexity' would indicate that it is not all your idea, but nonetheless you appear to have a very active creative imagination to come up with scifi plots.

What are your qualification in the sciences related to evolution that lead you to this conclusion?

 

[leov]

Kitzmiller v. Dover decision

Thanks, I started looking for scientific refutation of 'irreducible complexity' in in, so far no luck, if you know which page it is, please, point it out.