Why do Atheists Debate Religion?

[Thruve]

It's worth pointing out that a high proportion of atheists are ex-Christian, and so it is often an interest in debating, discussing and analyzing religion that has led them to atheism. Debating religion is often what made us atheist.

Id also add God hating to that list. Many atheists Ive come across just absolutely hate even the idea of a God. I hate God too, don't worry, but Im pretty sure its my trust and faith that keeps me going. Im sure as hell am going to be ****** if it doesnt pay off xP

 

[LuisDantas]

Id also add God hating to that list. Many atheists Ive come across just absolutely hate even the idea of a God. I hate God too, don't worry, but Im pretty sure its my trust and faith that keeps me going. Im sure as hell am going to be ****** if it doesnt pay off xP

For many of us atheists, the idea of a God is worth hating, at least depending on what that idea is. God himself is not worth the trouble, what with not existing and all.

 

[s2a]

Id also add God hating to that list. Many atheists Ive come across just absolutely hate even the idea of a God. I hate God too, don't worry, but Im pretty sure its my trust and faith that keeps me going. Im sure as hell am going to be ****** if it doesnt pay off xP

Just to add another pov... I can not, do not, will not..."hate God"...anymore than I "hate" the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. Seriously.

I have gazed upon the night sky. I've seen thousands of stars, galaxies, with my own eyes. There are literally TRILLIONS more that evade common human sight, absent readily available vision enhancements (visible light, radar, infrared, etc.). To deny such evidences is borderline madness. WE are here, and then there is everything else.

Let us all bear in mind that "atheists" do not accept spurious claims of your "god", but do not acknowledge claims of ANY god (gods), or of ANY supernatural entities, by anyone.

"Believers" simply espouse their understandings of cosmological origins. That's OK, but I do not "hate" them or their proclaimed supernatural entity(s) as some primary cause of the cosmos. They are just "wrong", by all measures of available evidences today. And, that's OK, but they are still wrong.

Again, the OP asks "Why do Atheists debate religion" is indeed a fair question.

The answer remains in many forms, in many manifestations... but to be fair, the question also remains...why do "believers" willingly choose to deny all available facts?

What is it about "religious faith" that leads ardent adherents of "truth" seek to deny about "fact"?

"Atheists" never pretend to offer definitive answers to any of life's unanswerable inquiries. Then again, no evidences suggest that "god" concepts are the sole answers to any that seek "fact" in solution.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Id also add God hating to that list. Many atheists Ive come across just absolutely hate even the idea of a God. I hate God too, don't worry, but Im pretty sure its my trust and faith that keeps me going. Im sure as hell am going to be ****** if it doesnt pay off xP

Why would you trust a god you hate?

 

[Thruve]

Why would you trust a god you hate?

I often live in moments where I don't understand whats going on, especially when something traumatic has just happened, and believing in god always keeps my head up ^ So Im always looking up^ Naturally, always asking why this is happening ^ but after many years of dealing with my spiritual learning curve, I've learned that 'God' ( subjective opinion ) takes his time with answers/truth where I/We want answers right the Hell NOW. God ( or whatevers up there ) takes his time. I've learned to be patient as a result. I may not understand something now, and I may be suffering too, but I have the trust and faith that truth/answers will come in time because so far this God has always come through at one point or another.

Even If I say 'F' god, because in the moment im ticked, especially when irony is as clear as day, I know in time I'll fall back on my faith/trust and I'll clearly see the overall picture. Do I like this? Naw, it makes me HATE god, especially when Im only here for 50-100 years but theres nothing I can do about it.

A year ago me and my BF Saved this puppy from a shelter. Within a weeks time after giving this puppy all my love, it caught Parva. I didn't know wtf parva was or that it could kill puppies, so I didn't bring the dog into the vet right away because I didn't think diareah was a big deal. Anyhow, it died in my arms and it struck me pretty hard. Prior to its death, I Sat for hours in a bathtub with a dying dog awaiting for the vet to give me the ok to bring the dog in (was sunday, vets were closed).I was angry that this happened, and learned that whatever the reason that event was deemed relevant to my spiritual life in gods eyes, that in time God would answer in some way, shape, or form, aslong as I kept looking up ^. The next day I went home, and to my surprise my mother had brought a puppy over my house because she had just adopted one too. In short, I felt healed as I began to love this puppy belonging to my mom. Ironic? Story of my life. But the irony only happens for aslong as I keep looking up. Was this gods answer? IDFK, but I felt better xP The most ironic thing was that my mother had NO idea of the dying parva puppy I had just witnessed die. Go figure ^ The long term result of this incident is I find myself a bit stronger when processing death, and strength, they say, is the only answer you need.


Edit* The reason I threw in *whatevers up there* in my first paragraph is because the Irony I find in life I believe is responsible from something, whether it be the christian God, Islamic, spirits, whatever, as im wise enough to think outside of the box to know Christianity is not just the only answer.. So I don't want to deter anyone from having faith in whatever God/religion they follow, but rather look up ^ and find the Irony and make of it what you will. Falling back on my christian roots has become safe for me, it works for me, and I also am wise enough to understand that it won't work for others out there.

 

[Thruve]

Why would you trust a god you hate?

I should also add that love is pain. Tough love, rather, In a world where were spiritually learning (some of us atleast?). Life is also a journey, and that requires tough love from the 'creator'/overseer to keep us safe from things I/you clearly can't see. Perhaps from knowledge for example >.> Eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge kills son, and I sure as hell will choose what fruit I eat carefully next time ^ Took a lesson to come to that epiphany though. I may be 22 with lots to learn, but if i could burn the tree of knowledge I would do so, and then 'LOL' afterwards. Hell, Ill use its wood to make a ship and then enchant it with the rotting fruit of the tree, then go over and makeout with the queen of hearts in wonderland just to say i did.

 

[firedragon]

Why do atheists debate religion?

1. Because it is an important factor in global, regional and local affairs.
2. Because it is intellectually interesting and stimulating.
3. Because it leads me to examine my own assumptions more closely.
4. For me the most interesting componant is in the difference between a religious debate and any other. In other walks of life reason, logic and knowledge are the fulcra for debate. Religious debate is far more nuanced, tactical and abstract. It is not about who can best establish fact, it is a competition of beliefs. The norms of debating using classical logic do not apply - and so it is extremely interesting to engage in an environment driven by your opponants tactical and rhetorical abilities rather than the solidity of their case.

I have found Atheists to be pretty knowledgeable all round and your first three points are very good though it applies for most people, regardless of theology or lack of it.

But your fourth point is not a reason.

And it is so generalising it sounds almost as if you have never had a debate of stature.

 

[outhouse]

So much for "debating" individualistic ideas or concepts.

If I see "wrong", just don't say so, nor "call out" a BS when witnessed.

Just be careful with wording, and remember brotherhood and beliefs of all kind are welcome, right or wrong.

We can point out using sources and links to correct the errors we see.

Just do it in a respectful manner.

 

[Curious_Cat]

Here's a question to debate. I'm on a road to search for knowledge, and I find something intriguing. When I joined, I expected a fair number of Spiritualists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Pagans, etc. The one thing I didn't count on was the number of Atheists, I expected a few, but the number was much larger then I expected. I found that intriguing.

I understand people with a religion talking about their religion. I don't understand why some people talk so much about their lack of a religion. Am I wrong to not understand?

Why do Atheists debate religion?

I'm not going to take part in this debate, except to ask questions and dig further into ideas and thoughts.

Side Note: I grew up in a rather Christian community, and do not know many atheists. I expect that I could learn a lot about atheism from this discussion.

Personally Im just curious and find the discussions quite amusing.

 

[Koldo]

I often live in moments where I don't understand whats going on, especially when something traumatic has just happened, and believing in god always keeps my head up ^ So Im always looking up^ Naturally, always asking why this is happening ^ but after many years of dealing with my spiritual learning curve, I've learned that 'God' ( subjective opinion ) takes his time with answers/truth where I/We want answers right the Hell NOW. God ( or whatevers up there ) takes his time. I've learned to be patient as a result. I may not understand something now, and I may be suffering too, but I have the trust and faith that truth/answers will come in time because so far this God has always come through at one point or another.

Even If I say 'F' god, because in the moment im ticked, especially when irony is as clear as day, I know in time I'll fall back on my faith/trust and I'll clearly see the overall picture. Do I like this? Naw, it makes me HATE god, especially when Im only here for 50-100 years but theres nothing I can do about it.

A year ago me and my BF Saved this puppy from a shelter. Within a weeks time after giving this puppy all my love, it caught Parva. I didn't know wtf parva was or that it could kill puppies, so I didn't bring the dog into the vet right away because I didn't think diareah was a big deal. Anyhow, it died in my arms and it struck me pretty hard. Prior to its death, I Sat for hours in a bathtub with a dying dog awaiting for the vet to give me the ok to bring the dog in (was sunday, vets were closed).I was angry that this happened, and learned that whatever the reason that event was deemed relevant to my spiritual life in gods eyes, that in time God would answer in some way, shape, or form, aslong as I kept looking up ^. The next day I went home, and to my surprise my mother had brought a puppy over my house because she had just adopted one too. In short, I felt healed as I began to love this puppy belonging to my mom. Ironic? Story of my life. But the irony only happens for aslong as I keep looking up. Was this gods answer? IDFK, but I felt better xP The most ironic thing was that my mother had NO idea of the dying parva puppy I had just witnessed die. Go figure ^ The long term result of this incident is I find myself a bit stronger when processing death, and strength, they say, is the only answer you need.


Edit* The reason I threw in *whatevers up there* in my first paragraph is because the Irony I find in life I believe is responsible from something, whether it be the christian God, Islamic, spirits, whatever, as im wise enough to think outside of the box to know Christianity is not just the only answer.. So I don't want to deter anyone from having faith in whatever God/religion they follow, but rather look up ^ and find the Irony and make of it what you will. Falling back on my christian roots has become safe for me, it works for me, and I also am wise enough to understand that it won't work for others out there.

Consider, for instance, how hard some objectives can be, and how we justify going through a lot of hardships just to achieve them. Once we endure major suffering, a typical reaction is to invoke this mechanism and to look for what can be achieved through our suffering, trying to justify it by the means of a reward.

The fact is, though, that if we hadn't suffered, something even better might have been ready to us just ahead. We really don't know what would have happened. And, to be honest, there is no reason to assume one way or the other. Still, our minds beg for a justification to our suffering. It takes effort to accept there might be none.

 

[Thruve]

Consider, for instance, how hard some objectives can be, and how we justify going through a lot of hardships just to achieve them. Once we endure major suffering, a typical reaction is to invoke this mechanism and to look for what can be achieved through our suffering, trying to justify it by the means of a reward.

The fact is, though, that if we hadn't suffered, something even better might have been ready to us just ahead. We really don't know what would have happened. And, to be honest, there is no reason to assume one way or the other. Still, our minds beg for a justification to our suffering. It takes effort to accept there might be none.

U missed where I indirectly stated that strength is a reward. It's the only reward worth receiving. Its the only reward thats truly worth anything. On the other hand, Our minds begging for justification is natural and that doesn't mean nothing exists.

 

[Bunyip]

I have found Atheists to be pretty knowledgeable all round and your first three points are very good though it applies for most people, regardless of theology or lack of it.

But your fourth point is not a reason.

And it is so generalising it sounds almost as if you have never had a debate of stature.

You are wrong I'm afraid - in fact the fourth reason there is the most fascinating for me. Religious beliefs are not the product of reason, knowledge or logic - they are in a very different realm.

As I said, debate with a religious person is all about tactics and semantics, as opposed to reason and logic. Just look at any creationism debate where you have a scientist and a creationist discussing YEC for example. I have participated in and watched hundreds of such debates and studied them in great detail - if they were focussed on comparing the evidence and the application of reason and logic creationism would have been abandoned generations ago.

Faith in god is just that - faith, faith is not the child of reason, logic or knowledge. Faith is the alternative to reason, logic and knowledge.

 

[firedragon]

You are wrong I'm afraid - in fact the fourth reason there is the most fascinating for me. Religious beliefs are not the product of reason, knowledge or logic - they are in a very different realm.

As I said, debate with a religious person is all about tactics and semantics, as opposed to reason and logic. Just look at any creationism debate where you have a scientist and a creationist discussing YEC for example. I have participated in and watched hundreds of such debates and studied them in great detail - if they were focussed on comparing the evidence and the application of reason and logic creationism would have been abandoned generations ago.

Faith in god is just that - faith, faith is not the child of reason, logic or knowledge. Faith is the alternative to reason, logic and knowledge.

My initial point was that the thread is asking why atheists debate religion. You gave three reasons and then the fourth one was a statement, not a reason.

Off topic, any evolutionist that I read of is also based on faith in the same. So far has not provided observable evidence because it is impossible. It is too vast a subject but most gaps are filled with speculative art. There is no proof provided by anyone that creation didn't happen either. It is simply a dismissal.

 

[LuisDantas]

My initial point was that the thread is asking why atheists debate religion. You gave three reasons and then the fourth one was a statement, not a reason.

Off topic, any evolutionist that I read of is also based on faith in the same. So far has not provided observable evidence because it is impossible. It is too vast a subject but most gaps are filled with speculative art. There is no proof provided by anyone that creation didn't happen either. It is simply a dismissal.

You are just so wrong.

 

[firedragon]

You are just so wrong.

Thats probably the most intellectual answer I have seen.

Peace bro.

 

[Bunyip]

My initial point was that the thread is asking why atheists debate religion. You gave three reasons and then the fourth one was a statement, not a reason.

Off topic, any evolutionist that I read of is also based on faith in the same. So far has not provided observable evidence because it is impossible. It is too vast a subject but most gaps are filled with speculative art. There is no proof provided by anyone that creation didn't happen either. It is simply a dismissal.

It was not only a reason, but for me the principle reason for my interest.

As to evolution, you are mistaken - evolution is observable, in fact the entirety of the Theory of Evolution is drawn from observations. So you prove my point for me - the reality is that evolution is observable and an established fact. In debate with creationists the same misconceptions ( such as your claim that evolution is not observable) are repeated in debate over and over and over, no matter how often they are corrected. In any other field of debate, particularly over a scientific question the debate would have simply accepted that correction and moved on 150 years ago. Religion is thus unique in that respect - the misconceptions are immune to data, evidence, logic and reason and exist only becuase they MUST exist otherwise they conflict with the persons faith beliefs.

That evolution is not observable was disproven in the 19th century - this is now the 21st century, and yet creationists can never move past that point.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Off topic, any evolutionist that I read of is also based on faith in the same. So far has not provided observable evidence because it is impossible.

You are incorrect. There is plentiful observable evidence. But as you said, this is "off topic" but if you'd like to take this to the Evolution v. Creation thread, I'll be happy to tell you about "observable evidence".

 

[firedragon]

It was not only a reason, but for me the principle reason for my interest.

As to evolution, you are mistaken - evolution is observable, in fact the entirety of the Theory of Evolution is drawn from observations. So you prove my point for me - the reality is that evolution is observable and an established fact. In debate with creationists the same misconceptions ( such as your claim that evolution is not observable) are repeated in debate over and over and over, no matter how often they are corrected. In any other field of debate, particularly over a scientific question the debate would have simply accepted that correction and moved on 150 years ago. Religion is thus unique in that respect - the misconceptions are immune to data, evidence, logic and reason and exist only becuase they MUST exist otherwise they conflict with the persons faith beliefs.

That evolution is not observable was disproven in the 19th century - this is now the 21st century, and yet creationists can never move past that point.

Good. You seem to know your stuff. But, maybe you should open a new thread or something.

Cheers.

 

[Bunyip]

Good. You seem to know your stuff. But, maybe you should open a new thread or something.

Cheers.

No offence, but debating about whether evolution is a fact or not is about as interesting to me as a debate about whether or not the moon is made from cheese.

It would have been interesting in 1850, but in 2014 is just sad.

My point is that creationists only debate misconceptions, and it is faith that prevents them from ever engaging beyong the wall of misconceptions that they construct to shield themselves from reality.

 

[firedragon]

No offence, but debating about whether evolution is a fact or not is about as interesting to me as a debate about whether or not the moon is made from cheese.

It would have been interesting in 1850, but in 2014 is just sad.

My point is that creationists only debate misconceptions, and it is faith that prevents them from ever engaging beyong the wall of misconceptions that they construct to shield themselves from reality.

Now that you said it, to me debating with evolutionists is also completely illogical because they rant about creationists basing everything on belief but evolutionists also base themselves completely on a belief that they created for themselves. At the least the creationists have a scripture that they believe in.

No observable evidence. What you say about observable evidence dealt with in the 19th century is B.S. No observable evidence has ever been provided to show a change in kind. None. What ever claimed to have happened is supposed to have happened years and years ago and can never be observed.

So it is also faith, denied adamantly. What with speculative art. Where do they come from? It is a belief and you've drawn it with brushes and paper. Maybe now since it is not 1850 you've used the technology called the computer.