Why do atheists talk to believers so much?

[Trailblazer]

In the universe there is energy, matter, forces (electrostatic, gravity, F=MA, etc), entropy, the standard model of particles, space, time, etc. But there is no such thing as the subjective experience of conscious, yet it is clearly perceivable. What gives?

What gives is called the soul, which is responsible for consciousness.

The soul animates the human body while we are alive on earth. The soul communicates its desires through the brain to the physical body, which thereby expresses itself. The body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around while we are alive on earth, a place to house the soul. The soul is our self, our true reality; the body is just our outer shell.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, fully conscious yet with a heightened awareness. Since the requirements of the physical body no longer impinge upon the soul in the spiritual world, the soul is like a bird who has been released from a cage.

Every human soul ascends to the spiritual world where it continues the life it conducted in the physical world. At that time the soul takes on another form comprised of elements that exist in the spiritual realm.

The soul is a mystery no human mind can ever unravel. That is why it cannot be studied by scientists, besides the fact that it is immaterial. However, we can know what it is and its function and eternal destination, even though we cannot know its nature.

The ultimate purpose of our existence is connected to our soul; it has nothing to do with our physical body, which shall perish. Moreover, given what Baha’u’llah wrote below, it is vital that we know the ultimate purpose of the soul, before we depart from the mortal realm of existence. With this awareness, we will know where to direct our soul during this life. Without this awareness, at best we will be like a ship lost at sea after we die.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159​

 

[Looncall]

I think the definition of what is and what isn't material is key. If the subjective experience of consciousness is material, then I would agree. But I have not encountered this admission by Ph.D. scientists.

You seem to be ignoring the notion of a process taking place in a physical substrate.

If a computer is running a calculation, is the calculation a "thing" , as you claim for consciousness?

 

[tayla]

The soul is a mystery no human mind can ever unravel. That is why it cannot be studied by scientists, besides the fact that it is immaterial.

Yes

 

[tayla]

The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, fully conscious yet with a heightened awareness.

How do you know this is what happens?

 

[tayla]

The ultimate purpose of our existence is connected to our soul; it has nothing to do with our physical body, which shall perish.

Our purpose must have something to do with our body since the soul chooses to inhabit it.

 

[tayla]

Without this awareness, at best we will be like a ship lost at sea after we die.

I doubt our knowledge during this life has much bearing on how well we do in the afterlife.

 

[tayla]

You seem to be ignoring the notion of a process taking place in a physical substrate.

If a computer is running a calculation, is the calculation a "thing" , as you claim for consciousness?

A better analogy would be a novel "running" on the substrate of ink and paper. The ideas of the novel exist in the realm of ideas experienced by humans, not merely as sequences of calculations. I doubt that a novel is just a hugely huge mathematical calculation that becomes consciously perceived because it is so hugely huge.

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you know this is what happens?

Much has been revealed about the eternal destiny of the soul in the Writings of the Baha'i Faith.... For one example, regarding consciousness:

“Thou hast asked Me whether man, as apart from the Prophets of God and His chosen ones, will retain, after his physical death, the self-same individuality, personality, consciousness, and understanding that characterize his life in this world. If this should be the case, how is it, thou hast observed, that whereas such slight injuries to his mental faculties as fainting and severe illness deprive him of his understanding and consciousness, his death, which must involve the decomposition of his body and the dissolution of its elements, is powerless to destroy that understanding and extinguish that consciousness? How can any one imagine that man’s consciousness and personality will be maintained, when the very instruments necessary to their existence and function will have completely disintegrated?

Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments.Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 153-154
​

 

[Trailblazer]

Our purpose must have something to do with our body since the soul chooses to inhabit it.

Yes, as I said, the body is the "medium" through which the soul operates while we are alive in the material world. The body is "necessary" to house the soul but it is the soul allows the body to function and accomplish its purposes. The soul, operating through the body and particularly the brain, are necessary for us to make decisions and perform actions in order to acquire the spiritual attributes we will need in the purely spiritual world. That is the whole purpose of our short life on this earth, spiritual growth.

 

[Trailblazer]

I doubt our knowledge during this life has much bearing on how well we do in the afterlife.

Our knowledge of God in this world and our adherence to His Will has everything to do with how well we will do in the afterlife.

“The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5​

Knowledge of God and our adherence to His Will is the whole ball of wax. We will no longer have free will and the ability to acquire that knowledge after we die the way we have it here, so we will be handicapped in the afterlife if we do not acquire knowledge of God and spiritual attributes before we die. Why do you think all the scriptures emphasize knowing God and doing His Will while we are alive on earth? It is for our benefit here but it is mainly for our benefit in the afterlife.

People think that this life is so important but this short life is nothing by comparison to eternity. Just because we cannot see the spiritual world does not mean it does not exist. God does not want us to know exactly what lies ahead, but we have been given enough information in order to know what we have to do here in order to prepare for the afterlife.