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Why do Athiests challenge Thiests?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Okay then, give it to me.
How is Theism dangerous?

It gives many people an excuse to feel justified in what they would otherwise perceive (often accurately) as being immoral behavior, for one.

Theism is legit. But it is also so very often abused and yielded as a destructive weapon, often by the very people that it hurts.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Okay then, give it to me.
How is Theism dangerous?
You are not listening to me. I did not say theism was dangerous. I am trying to be as clear as I can be I don't believe that theism is dangerous.

But some people do. I am just trying to explain it to you because you asked. If you really want to know why Atheists challenge Theists I have told you. If you want to debate whether or not Atheists should challenge Theists I am not saying they should.

But yes some people sincerely believe that theism leads to violent acts. I am not one of those people. But it is the answer to the question you asked. And some people believe that theism prevents people from understanding scientific concepts. I am not one of those people. But it is the answer to the question you asked.

Now let me ask you, did you really want an answer to the question? Or was it just rhetoric?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Faith is not the enemy of science. Science is not the enemy of faith. Science explains, Whereas faith explains who created the things that science explains and why He created these things.
Faith: "silence your doubts and keep your confidence in what you believe."
Science: "encourage doubt, seek out weaknesses in your beliefs, and test them with evidence."

These approaches seem to me to be diametrically opposed.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Faith is not the enemy of science. Science is not the enemy of faith. Science explains, Whereas faith explains who created the things that science explains and why He created these things.


Genesis Chapter 2 verse 21:
So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh.

Human Evolution: Genetic studies show that primates diverged from other mammals about 85 million years ago in the Late Cretaceous period, and the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.[2] The family Hominidae diverged from the Hylobatidae (Gibbon) family 15-20 million years ago, and around 14 million years ago, the Ponginae (orangutans), diverged from the Hominidae family.[3] Bipedalism is the basic adaption of the Hominin line, and the earliest bipedal Hominin is considered to be either Sahelanthropus or Orrorin, with Ardipithecus, a full bipedal, coming somewhat later. The gorilla and chimpanzee diverged around the same time, about 4-6 million years ago, and either Sahelanthropus or Orrorin may be our last shared ancestor with them. The early bipedals eventually evolved into the australopithecines and later the genus Homo.


I'm not seeing a correlation here that validates your claim.
 

hexler

Member
That's a bit of a projection. I don't feel embarrassed at having lost my faith. Rather, I feel enlightened. And I do not, in any sense of the word, believe in god. Or anything of a supernatural nature. At all. I accept only what I find evidence of.



But you're not searching for the truth. You're just searching for any way to validate your truth. The truth, after all, is a three edged sword: Your truth. My truth. And the truth.

It seems you do not know what projection is. People who make a projection are not at all relaxed. They are sick; they are very close to burst out in tears. And because they do not allow tears, which would give them relief, they are projecting; they cannot stand the pain and because of that somebody else must be guilty.
Nevertheless, I find it amusing that there are sects in atheism:

Behold, the six types of atheists

By Dan Merica, CNN

(CNN) – How many ways are there to disbelieve in God?

At least six, according to a new study.

Two researchers at University of Tennessee at Chattanooga found that atheists and agnostics run the range from vocally anti-religious activists to nonbelievers who still observe some religious traditions.

“The main observation is that nonbelief is an ontologically diverse community,” write doctoral student Christopher Silver and undergraduate student Thomas Coleman.

“These categories are a first stab at this," Silver told the website Raw Story. "In 30 years, we may be looking at a typology of 32 types.”

Silver and Coleman derived their six types of nonbelievers from 59 interviews. We're pretty sure we've spotted all six in our comments section.

1) Intellectual atheist/agnostic

This type of nonbeliever seeks information and intellectual stimulation about atheism.

They like debating and arguing, particularly on popular Internet sites.

(Ahem.)

They're also well-versed in books and articles about religion and atheism, and prone to citing those works frequently.

2) Activist

These kinds of atheists and agnostics are not content with just disbelieving in God; they want to tell others why they reject religion and why society would be better off if we all did likewise.

They tend to be vocal about political causes like gay rights, feminism, the environment and the care of animals.

3) Seeker-agnostic

This group is made up of people who are unsure about the existence of a God but keep an open mind and recognize the limits of human knowledge and experience.

Silver and Coleman describe this group as people who regularly question their own beliefs and “do not hold a firm ideological position.”

That doesn't mean this group is confused, the researchers say. They just embrace uncertainty.

4) Anti-theist

This group regularly speaks out against religion and religious beliefs, usually by positioning themselves as “diametrically opposed to religious ideology,” Silver and Coleman wrote.

“Anti-theists view religion as ignorance and see any individual or institution associated with it as backward and socially detrimental,” the researchers wrote. “The Anti-Theist has a clear and – in their view, superior – understanding of the limitations and danger of religions.”

Anti-theists are outspoken, devoted and – at times – confrontational about their disbelief. They believe that "obvious fallacies in religion and belief should be aggressively addressed in some form or another.”

5) Non-theist

The smallest group among the six are the non-theists, people who do not involve themselves with either religion or anti-religion.

In many cases, this comes across as apathy or disinterest.

“A Non-Theist simply does not concern him or herself with religion,” Silver and Coleman wrote. “Religion plays no role or issue in one’s consciousness or worldview; nor does a Non- Theist have concern for the atheist or agnostic movement.”

They continue: “They simply do not believe, and in the same right, their absence of faith means the absence of anything religion in any form from their mental space.”

6) Ritual atheist

They don't believe in God, they don’t associate with religion, and they tend to believe there is no afterlife, but the sixth type of nonbeliever still finds useful the teachings of some religious traditions.

“They see these as more or less philosophical teachings of how to live life and achieve happiness than a path to transcendental liberation,” Silver and Coleman wrote. “For example, these individuals may participate in specific rituals, ceremonies, musical opportunities, meditation, yoga classes, or holiday traditions.”

For many of these nonbelievers, their adherence to ritual may stem from family traditions. For others, its a personal connection to, or respect for, the "profound symbolism" inherent within religious rituals, beliefs and ceremonies, according the researchers.

–

The authors of this study have graciously agreed to field questions from our commenters. If you're interested, please post your question below or tweet it to us at @CNNBelief.

We'll take the best questions to the authors and the Q&A will be posted in a follow-up article.

Please try to keep your questions related to the study itself.

Thanks,
Daniel Burke
The Editors - CNN Belief Blog
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Okay then, give it to me.
How is Theism dangerous?

I don't think theism is necessarily dangerous (don't even know what it is, really), but I consider human certainty to be quite dangerous, whether held by a theist or non-theist.

But theistic certainty seems generally more dangerous. I recently heard a Christian argue that God wants gays killed. After all, it says so in the Bible. I'm sure he has no plans to kill gays but that he really believes such a thing, with absolute certainty, is scary. Then we have deeply conservative religionists who are so certain of their truth that they'll actually shun their own family members if those members rock or abandon the belief boat. That's a sickness, that shunning. I can hardly imagine anything uglier that a human could do. And it's all because their certainty is challenged.

Atheists who are afflicted by certainty don't come up with stuff like that. The worst they might do is push their favorite scientific theory with undue assertiveness or generally be bratty about their advanced rationality.

That's roughly how I see it.
 

Thana

Lady
fantôme profane;3564394 said:
Now let me ask you, did you really want an answer to the question? Or was it just rhetoric?


No I genuinely wanted to know.



Genesis Chapter 2 verse 21:
So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh.

Human Evolution: Genetic studies show that primates diverged from other mammals about 85 million years ago in the Late Cretaceous period, and the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.[2] The family Hominidae diverged from the Hylobatidae (Gibbon) family 15-20 million years ago, and around 14 million years ago, the Ponginae (orangutans), diverged from the Hominidae family.[3] Bipedalism is the basic adaption of the Hominin line, and the earliest bipedal Hominin is considered to be either Sahelanthropus or Orrorin, with Ardipithecus, a full bipedal, coming somewhat later. The gorilla and chimpanzee diverged around the same time, about 4-6 million years ago, and either Sahelanthropus or Orrorin may be our last shared ancestor with them. The early bipedals eventually evolved into the australopithecines and later the genus Homo.


I'm not seeing a correlation here that validates your claim.

Lol, No way am I getting into Evolution vs Creation again. Nooo thank you.




Faith: "silence your doubts and keep your confidence in what you believe."
Science: "encourage doubt, seek out weaknesses in your beliefs, and test them with evidence."

These approaches seem to me to be diametrically opposed.


Where in the hell did you get Faith: Silence your doubts?
I've never heard that before, Do you honestly believe religious people don't ever have doubts?
That they never seek knowledge to understand their doubts, Or learn something that stops them from doubting?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Where in the hell did you get Faith: Silence your doubts?
Different places... for instance:

faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
faith - definition of faith by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and [h]without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.
James 1 NASB - Testing Your Faith - James, a - Bible Gateway

I've never heard that before, Do you honestly believe religious people don't ever have doubts?
I think they have doubts all the time... it's just that many religious people consider doubt to be a personal failing. Faith without doubt is more of an aspiration than something that actually gets realized.
 

hexler

Member
A projection is one placing their value systems onto someone else or something else. :)

Your definition is not making any assertion. Also healthy people are doing that. But, as Freud states, they are sick.
Psychological projection was conceptualized by Sigmund Freud in the 1890s as a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world.[1] For example, a person who is rude may accuse other people of being rude.

Although rooted in early developmental stages,[2] and classed by Vaillant as an immature defence,[3] the projection of one's negative qualities onto others on a small scale is nevertheless a common process in everyday life.[4]
 

Thana

Lady
Different places... for instance:


faith - definition of faith by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


James 1 NASB - Testing Your Faith - James, a - Bible Gateway


I think they have doubts all the time... it's just that many religious people consider doubt to be a personal failing. Faith without doubt is more of an aspiration than something that actually gets realized.


I've doubted more times than i can count, But it's because I lacked knowledge not because I lacked faith in God.

That scripture was in reference to God, That if you doubt that God will give you wisdom, Then you will not get wisdom.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
I've doubted more times than i can count, But it's because I lacked knowledge not because I lacked faith in God.

That scripture was in reference to God, That if you doubt that God will give you wisdom, Then you will not get wisdom.


Wisdom does not come from divine agency. But from experience. From living.

Even if god did exist, don't you think it would think the best way of you gaining your wisdom was to live your life? If you make a false judgement, or a false step, that adds to your wisdom. Wisdom is not the pursuit of intellectual perfection, but rather developing your sense of self from the mistakes you make and your imperfections. And it seems to me that if you doubt god will give you wisdom, that is precisely the best time to supply it.
 
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Thana

Lady
Wisdom does not come from divine agency. But from experience. From living.

Even if god did exist, don't you think it would think the best way of you gaining your wisdom was to live your life? If you make a false judgement, or a false step, that adds to your wisdom. Wisdom is not the pursuit of intellectual perfection, but rather developing your sense of self from the mistakes you make and your imperfections.


From a Christian point of view:
Does God not send/allow the obstacles in life that you must overcome to gain wisdom?
Therefore God is giving you wisdom.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I've doubted more times than i can count, But it's because I lacked knowledge not because I lacked faith in God.

That scripture was in reference to God, That if you doubt that God will give you wisdom, Then you will not get wisdom.

It's just one example. If you've read the Bible (and I'm sure you have), then you'll know it's chock-full of praise for faith and condemnation for doubt.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
From a Christian point of view:
Does God not send/allow the obstacles in life that you must overcome to gain wisdom?
Therefore God is giving you wisdom.

You believe god created the world. Wisdom is found by making your way in that world (for better or for worse). Not by sitting at the bed side praying for it. As the old saying goes, A caged bird thinks flying is an illness.
 

Thana

Lady
It's just one example. If you've read the Bible (and I'm sure you have), then you'll know it's chock-full of praise for faith and condemnation for doubt.


Yes but if God did not expect us to doubt, He would not have added anything to do with faith or doubt in the bible.

We're human, flesh, Of course we're going to doubt.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yes but if God did not expect us to doubt, He would not have added anything to do with faith or doubt in the bible.

We're human, flesh, Of course we're going to doubt.

I agree that doubt is inevitable. As I pointed out in my earlier post, the difference lies in how we respond to doubt. The approach suggested by faith is diametrically opposed to the approach suggested by science.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Yes but if God did not expect us to doubt, He would not have added anything to do with faith or doubt in the bible.

We're human, flesh, Of course we're going to doubt.

The issue is irrelevant, really. According to your mythology god already knows the outcome of your life. It already knows if you're going to hell. Everything is predetermined by its omniscience. Talking about it is, (only according to your belief) a complete waste of time.
 

Thana

Lady
The issue is irrelevant, really. According to your mythology god already knows the outcome of your life. It already knows if you're going to hell. Everything is predetermined by its omniscience. Talking about it is, (only according to your belief) a complete waste of time.


In that case, Talking and doing is a waste of time. My life is already predetermined, And everything I do is not me doing it, So I might aswell sit back and wait to kick the bucket.
But if I do that, It's still not me doing it.

So I guess I'll just believe in free will and find those things relevant instead. ;)
 
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