Why do bad things happen when God exists?

[YmirGF]

I wonder why no one has suggested that without so-called "bad" events we would be unable to understand the nature of so-called "good" events? Exposure to this endless variety of events, most of which are quite unpredictable, enables us to form value judgments. What I am meaning is that if you were sad all the time, that would be your "normal" state and you would not know what happiness was. You would be unable to relate to happiness. Likewise, if you were a bliss ninny, you would have no yardstick by which to measure sadness.

The other thing I see missing from this discussion is the nature of the human condition which spans experiences of every kind. In theory, we learn to avoid things that have unpleasant consequences. We can, to a large extent, predict the results of given actions. We learn not to put our hands into a fire because experience taught us that a rather large amount of pain will follow. We tend to shy away from painful experiences.

And lest we forget that we are little whirlpools of emotion that colour our experience in many subtle ways, pretending we are purely rational little beings and ignoring the impact of our emotions on our experience. What I am trying to say is we are such incredibly complex little beings that there is no reason to look outside that enormous complexity and point the finger at something that may or may not exist. We know we exist so perhaps we should look at ourselves for the answers to questions of this kind. God(s) need not apply.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I wonder why no one has suggested that without so-called "bad" events we would be unable to understand the nature of so-called "good" events? Exposure to this endless variety of events, most of which are quite unpredictable, enables us to form value judgments. What I am meaning is that if you were sad all the time, that would be your "normal" state and you would not know what happiness was. You would be unable to relate to happiness. Likewise, if you were a bliss ninny, you would have no yardstick by which to measure sadness.

Sure, there is need for variation and comparison, but God could presumably have designed things so we were blissful most of the time and just a bit happy the rest.

 

[YmirGF]

Sure, there is need for variation and comparison, but God could presumably have designed things so we were blissful most of the time and just a bit happy the rest.

And we could endlessly speculate till the last drop of Guinness was consumed and be no further ahead in our understanding... All the while ignoring answers that stare at us in the mirror.

It's because looking at ourselves makes us feel uncomfortable and pretending there is a god behind it all relieves us of the burden of seeking far richer, more meaningful and much more complex explanations.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

Sure, there is need for variation and comparison, but God could presumably have designed things so we were blissful most of the time and just a bit happy the rest.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Makes sense. And if God does exist he must be a rather cruel vindictive character, like the Old Testament God.

Just the opposite. The god of the O/T is the invention of cruel and vindictive control freaks. If God exists, and since there is no evidence for It's existence, much less for revelation and intervention, then it must necessarily be a deist God.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Complaining? No. I'm explaining that there is no good way out of the problem of evil that would make god seem attractive.

God is the theist's problem to defend.

Is that right..

Does Almighty God have responsibility? (Assuming God exists)
I would say that He has more responsibility then any of us!
So .. I say again .. don't you like the responsibilty that Almighty God has given to us?

Naturally, you like the 'good bits' .. like when we are children, we want to have the privileges of adults (not having experienced the responsibilty that comes with it)

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

Is that right..

Does Almighty God have responsibility? (Assuming God exists)
I would say that He has more responsibility then any of us!
So .. I say again .. don't you like the responsibilty that Almighty God has given to us?

Naturally, you like the 'good bits' .. like when we are children, we want to have the privileges of adults (not having experienced the responsibilty that comes with it)

I'm afraid I do not personally believe god has given us any responsibility. If I did believe that, I would question such a being's wisdom, giving responsibility over to a species like humans.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm afraid I do not personally believe god has given us any responsibility..

Some people accept responsibility and some do not. Turning one's back on truth will not help us.
Naturally, if we don't fill our lives with good, then there can only be one outcome
ie. evil will take over

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

Some people accept responsibility and some do not. Turning one's back on truth will not help us.
Naturally, if we don't fill our lives with good, then there can only be one outcome
ie. evil will take over

I did not say I believed I had no responsibility

I should hope caring about other humans were enough to make me feel I had some responsibility, or I don't value my humanity very highly. I just don't need a deity.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I did not say I believed I had no responsibility
...

Yeah .. just that 'a god' didn't give it to you..
Who did give it to you then?

 

[ronandcarol]

Why do bad things happen when God exists?
Bad things happen because we live in a fallen world, since the apple incident in the Garden of Eden. God created a perfect world in the Garden, absolutely perfect. Once man, with our free will, choose to not believe God, but believe the lies of satan, we became alienated from our creator. The Bible says that satan is the prince of this world, it also says that every human born is born with a sinful heart. We have to choose to overcome that and to follow Jesus instead of following the lies and deceit of satan. We will only overcome if we are followers of Jesus Christ who came to this earth to save us all from sin and eternal death.

Ron andCarol

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Of course.

Can God stop people from lacking God?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Of course.

So why doesn't God remove sickness and disease?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

And because God would allow evil in this controlled environment, that doesn't make God evil. It's the only path to an eternal life. The only alternative would be God with no universe, and no sentient creatures with free will and independent thought which benefits both God and those (of us ) who move on to that far shore one day. You don't like suffering and that life isn't fair, well I don't either but it looks like we'll either have to accept that, or believe in nothing.
...
That's a primitive attitude toward God, which is the one that's, regrettably, still prevalent. Deism and atheism are the only reasonable positions on God, but neither offer any salve for our crushing doubt--but at least deism offers a very distant hope.

Why do you think God allowing evil is the only path to an eternal life? Why is the only alternative to this 'God with no universe, and no sentient creatures with free will and independent thought'?

Why are deism and atheism the only reasonable positions on God?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why do you think God allowing evil is the only path to an eternal life? Why is the only alternative to this 'God with no universe, and no sentient creatures with free will and independent thought'?

Why are deism and atheism the only reasonable positions on God?

Because miracles and other forms of divine revelation can all be written off as hearsay. Any belief in them is faith that is totally blind.

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

Yeah .. just that 'a god' didn't give it to you..
Who did give it to you then?

I believe I did say that if I didn't have a responsibility to the good of others it would mean I do not value my own humanity very much. Since we all share in the same humanity, happiness, and sufferings. I have made it my responsibility. Ah, but are we now coming to why you chose the word responsibility for your argument?

 

[JoStories]

That would be true if peace was fated and written before hand. In Heaven peace is not like that, it is we do whatever we want and God takes care of any bad consequences from happening bad. Also, we will receive peace of mind and have all our negative emotions like hatred or envy revised and our reasoning as well to fit that. It is like living this life without those negative emotions, which does happen sometimes depending on our choice and reasoning. Causes of bad things in this life are not founded out of thin air, they have causes for them as well. God promises that such causes won't be a bother in Heaven. That's what I believe and what the Islamic views are. They could be different in other beliefs, and I respect that.

Sorry for not being around much. I'm a silly person who prefers being around silly threads fooling around looking for useless fun (like the chat room ), more than with good serious threads like this one, unlike your kind self; a sophisticated person looking for useful information and discussions. That's one reason we don't meet much. It has been a while indeed. How have you been? I'm glad I had this lovely opportunity to converse with you

you say you do whatever you want and God takes care of any consequences. That seems to me to say that one can do whatever they wish and not have to worry about it, such as murder, stealing, etc., in addition to positive things, which is what the Buddhist path embraces. Am I reading this wrong? Such a place would be the very worst thing I would think of. But again, I may be misreading you.
And please come over here now and then to see us. I miss you and your caring and compassion my friend. So many here misunderstand your faith and a few, IMO, are not doing the Muslim faith any favors with what they say. You, OTOH, are the best of the best of the best. Kiss kiss darling.

 

[JoStories]

Of course. It you choose the wrong color lipstick to put on a pig, that's a mistake. If you cut it's throat, you kill it intentionally. If you killed somebody through negligence, it still wasn't intentional, so it's manslaughter, not murder. If you intended to kill the sob who was trying to kill you, that was intentional but it was also self-defense because he was trying to murder you. We're loaded with choices every day, but only the ones that involve intentionally violating the rights of another are immoral and evil, and if intended, they aren't mistakes. People try to use that word to soften the blow when they do choose to do evil.

Maybe mistake is the wrong word here. I see all as choices and even the choice to murder is still a choice. You call it evil, which I don't believe in. I see life as Yin and Yang. All life is about choice, even those we see as untenable.

He did no such thing. He's only wanting to stop the flow of unvetted immigrants which the CIA chief just said many of which are ISIS. Some who would make such a careless accusation and name calling had better stay away from mirrors. And if you want to bring up politics, attacking Trump, aligning yourself with that corrupt to the soul murderer, Hillary, and defending Muslim terrorists is a really bad place to start.

In no way did I defend terrorists, no matter what faith they adhere to. But IMO, grouping all of one faith and stating they are terrorists is a very bigoted thing to do. In my state, we welcome refuges, most of which are from Africa and many of whom are Muslim. So what? Are you Native American? If not, you, too, are ultimately an immigrant, albeit many generations removed. OTOH, I AM NA. Fully one half. And I say to that....So what? We are all human, no matter what race. And faith is just one aspect. Shall we return to the place of internment camps? What if it were your race? And as for Trump V Clinton, I regret stating anything about my views. I will not engage in a battle of which is better here. I have my opinion and it will be reflected in my vote. End of story.

 

[JoStories]

It really doesn't matter if you disagree or not, whether your father was an atheist or not. It is quite possible that God had something to do with what ever goodness your father might have had. You cannot say God had absolutely nothing to do with your fathers morality. You can certainly remove the name of God from your conversations, but you cannot remove the influence God has had and will continue to have on this world. The only honest answer is that you don't know. And that is of course because you don't know.

True, but then neither do you. Neither can you prove that there IS a God, of any faith or lack thereof. Until the day that one can prove without doubt that there is a god, the argument is never going to be decided. I respect that you think there is, as my beloved mom is a devout Christian and has been her whole life, but I also respect the position that there are those who choose different paths. One would hope that all people, at some point, will also engage in that respect.

 

[JoStories]

I agree except that morals don't change. The crap clerics and politicians throw onto the simple moral code (the Golden Rule) and call morality, does change however--often minute to minute as needed to prop up rationalizations and keep people in line.

I disagree that morals don't change. Morals can and do change. Some are immutable, such as murder, etc. Some, OTOH, do change. Morals are how we judge one another. Most Christians view homosexuality as a seriously negative life style, however, some are changing their minds on that one. Years ago, Black Americans were viewed as less than human and that, obviously and thankfully, has also changed. Borthwick (2015) and Fletcher (2015) both wrote either articles (scholarly) or books about how morals have changed over time. I can post links if you would like.