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Why do bad things happen when God exists?

MuslimGirlDebater

New Member
If there is God and He is good, then why does “bad” exist? What is the reason for God to create all that is bad? Why couldn’t God create a world that has only bliss and happiness? Why has God made suffering? Why has God made problems? Why has God made poverty? Why do we suffer? Why do we fall sick? Why has God made death? If God is such a good God and if He is the creator of the universe, then why has He created this whole concept of suffering? Why has He let people become terrorists? Why has He let people create pain? And this is not just about people. Look at the animal world. Why has He created it in such a way that the tiger kills the deer, the cat eats the mouse, and the dog chases the cat? Why has God made the world like this?

We can go on asking questions as to why God has created the world like this, but the question that we need to ask ourselves is that should we question this way? Should we question His authority – Why He has done this? What He has done? Do we know better about what He has done, or does the Creator know better about what He has done? So from our limited intelligence and viewpoints, is it right to comment on or question and be judgmental about what God has created and why God has created so?

Why are we questioning what God has done? Why do we doubt God’s intentions? Why do we question God’s plan for our life? Why do we question what God has created on Earth? Should we not spend time pondering upon these rather than questioning what God has done? This is the question I ask myself today.

AiR


A very common question that I find a lot of people asking. Now, the answer to the first part of your question "why does bad exist" and all the full passage in which u basically ask the reason behind all things, and you said "If God is such a good God why create bad, right"?

Well the thing is, God is perfect. And he did make a perfect creation. The angels. They dont complain about the bad, terrorists, and anything else. Bc God made them perfect. But that's it. They are naturally perfect. They "cant" be bad. Even if they wanted to. So, God made another creation. This creation had its own free will. It could be good if or bad. That creation, happens to be humans. And you asked, if God is so perfect why create bad? Well, he didn't create bad. He created neutral. It's up to you to become good or bad.

And as for sufferings, pain, hardships and terrorism you talk about, well you've got to give something to have something, right? So in this case, you give up the happiness of this world and strive for the hereafter.

I know that's a bit hard to digest. So I'll give you an example. We Muslims love to use the example of this world with an examination hall.

EXAMPLE: -
Now, you've got an exam coming. And you have to pass it or else you'll be punished. Thats just what the situation is. So, you naturally have to strive to win and pass because you just don't want to get punished. Now, the sufferings that you're talking about are the hardships you do to pass the exam. Now we all know that's not easy, for some people it can be too much hard. Now, there are some people who don't strive for it.
Now for the people who are working hard, the people who aren't working appear 'free' and happy. But that's just what it looks like. When the examination comes, the people who didn't work hard will be punished and the people who did work, will get a reward.

So basically, in this example;
1) The people who strive hard; are the poor and oppressed people of this world. Bc they don't want this world and they only strive for the hereafter
2) the people who don't work and get punished in the end, are the rich and ignorant people including the terrorists and all bad people that love this world a lot.
 

Unfathomable Tao

Student of the Way
A very common question that I find a lot of people asking. Now, the answer to the first part of your question "why does bad exist" and all the full passage in which u basically ask the reason behind all things, and you said "If God is such a good God why create bad, right"?

Well the thing is, God is perfect. And he did make a perfect creation. The angels. They dont complain about the bad, terrorists, and anything else. Bc God made them perfect. But that's it. They are naturally perfect. They "cant" be bad. Even if they wanted to. So, God made another creation. This creation had its own free will. It could be good if or bad. That creation, happens to be humans. And you asked, if God is so perfect why create bad? Well, he didn't create bad. He created neutral. It's up to you to become good or bad...

Given the alleged power of this deity, including its all knowing aspect, it would be impossible to absolve such a being of evil. Saying this deity created 'neutral' doesn't absolve it of responsibility for evil, since it is all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. That would just mean such a character foresaw evil and went ahead with the plan, without taking care to prevent evil.
 

MuslimGirlDebater

New Member
Given the alleged power of this deity, including its all knowing aspect, it would be impossible to absolve such a being of evil. Saying this deity created 'neutral' doesn't absolve it of responsibility for evil, since it is all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. That would just mean such a character foresaw evil and went ahead with the plan, without taking care to prevent evil.

True that he foresaw evil. He knew what was to happen. He knew who would be good or bad. But he gave everyone a free voluntary chance to decide their fate. It's upon us to be good or bad. He does know what we r about to do. But wont it be unfair if he just didn't give someone a chance saying "I know you'll be bad" then the person will say "no, I won't be bad, just give me a chance". So that's why; even though he knows every evil. It's a chance he has given everyone. So that no one can say 'i wasn't given a chance how can you say I'm evil?"
Hope that clarifies
 

Unfathomable Tao

Student of the Way
It doesn't clarify, because it means this character is at least indirectly the cause of evil, and since we keep getting back to the choice argument- saying a being could not create choice without evil involved is saying that a deity is incapable of it, or that they chose not to. The problem of evil hasn't been resolved yet.
 

MuslimGirlDebater

New Member
It doesn't clarify, because it means this character is at least indirectly the cause of evil, and since we keep getting back to the choice argument- saying a being could not create choice without evil involved is saying that a deity is incapable of it, or that they chose not to. The problem of evil hasn't been resolved yet.


God created Evil mainly to test us, some of the reasons for creating evil are known while others unknown. Allah Said: "And God knows, while you know not". The Holy Quran Surah 2: al-Baqarah.
Allah tells us He is Pure, Loving, and absolutely Just in every respect. He says He is the Best of Judges. He also tells us the life we are in here is a test. He has created everything existing and He created whatever happens as well. There is nothing in this existence except what He has created. He also says in the Quran He created evil (although He is not evil). He is using this as one of the many tests for us.Consider people who do so much evil in the earth and then live to a ripe old age in the splendor and wealth of their ill-gotten gains and die without ever being taken to task for their deeds. Where is the justice or fairness in this? Allah provides a clear answer for us in Quran as to what is in store for these most evil of people:

Among the reasons are:

1- God created man to test him. He give us mind and wisdom to think. It is our will to do good or bad. Allah says in Quran
"[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving " Quran 67:2

2- Allah tells us that He has tell mankind (Souls) about the good and bad in the world
"By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it; And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;-" Quran 91:7-8

3- The world is only a place on enjoyment and fun. This is the real test
"A brief enjoyment in this world! - and then unto Us will be their return, then We shall make them taste the severest torment because they used to disbelieve [in Allah, belie His Messengers, deny and challenge His proofs, signs, verses, etc.]" Noble Quran 10:70

"Know ye (all), that the life of this world is but play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting and multiplying, (in rivalry) among yourselves, riches and children." Quran 57:20

4- We will be judged by our deeds. Not even a small injustice will be done to a soul
That Day mankind will proceed in scattered groups that they may be shown their deeds. So whoever does good equal to the weight of an atom, shall see it. And whoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom, shall see it. [Noble Quran 99:6-8]

5- God is the Lord of the worlds and as a such he is the creator of everything wither good or bad

6- God created evil as a display of power, as a manifestation and a confirmation that he can create good and the opposite of good. and that he is the only one who can do that. life started with him and so is death. and as he created life from nothing he also can create death and the reasons of death.

7- God created evil as a trail. He said "35. Every soul will taste death. And We test you with evil and with good as trial; and to Us you will be returned"
The Holy Quran Surah 21: al-Anbiya’

8- To affirm our needs and limitations. for you can only know the value of health during sickness, you would know the value of food only when you're hungry and the same with richness and poverty, knowledge and ignorance and so on.
9- Evil is created as a reminder because abandonment can lead people to disbelieve; Allah (SW) said:
"Indeed, man transgresses, Because he sees himself self-sufficient."
The Holy Quran Surah 96:6-7

10- God created evil to prevent greater one (like not getting on faulty airplane) we get upset because we missed the flight but soon we heard some tragedy happened. then we realize it was a bliss to miss.

11- Allah will even judge the Muslims by their deeds. This life is a test for every human. Quran states:
"Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test). Or those who do evil deeds think that they can outstrip Us (i.e. escape Our Punishment)? Evil is that which they judge! Whoever hopes for the Meeting with Allah, then Allah's Term is surely coming. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. And whosoever strives, he strives only for himself. Verily, Allah is free of all wants from the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns, and all that exists).Those who believe [in the Oneness of Allah (Monotheism) and in Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him , and do not apostate because of the harm they receive from the polytheists], and do righteous good deeds, surely, We shall remit from them their evil deeds and shall reward them according to the best of that which they used to do. And We have enjoined on man to be good and dutiful to his parents, but if they strive to make you join with Me (in worship) anything (as a partner) of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not. Unto Me is your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do. And for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah and other items of Faith) and do righteous good deeds, surely, We shall make them enter in (the entrance of) the righteous (i.e. in Paradise). Of mankind are some who say: "We believe in Allah," but if they are made to suffer for the sake of Allah, they consider the trial of mankind as Allah's punishment, and if victory comes from your Lord, (the hypocrites) will say: "Verily! We were with you (helping you)." Is not Allah Best Aware of what is in the breast of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)? Verily, Allah knows those who believe, and verily, He knows the hypocrites[i.e. Allah will test the people with good and hard days to discriminate the good from the wicked (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test)]." [Noble Quran 29:2-11]

12- Creator of everything is Allah.
"Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All [things] are from Allah ." So what is [the matter] with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?" [Quran 4:78]

"Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs."[Quran 39:62]

13- Even Bible agrees that God created evil
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
“And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.” (Exodus 32:14)

14- Allah stress us on doing good deeds to earn reward
For those who believe and do righteous deeds are Gardens as hospitable homes for their (good) deeds. (Quran 32:19)
For those who believe and work righteous deeds there will be Gardens of Bliss. (Quran 31:8)

Allah created Angles and give them Wisdom but not will, Allah created jinns and blessed them with Will but not wisdom but, Allah created humans and give them wisdom and will to do what they can, will to choose what they want to do, He give humns mind and knowledge to thing what is bad or good for him and to judge it
Quran states:
And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend. [Quran 41:34]
 

Unfathomable Tao

Student of the Way
Okay, so you are now saying 'Allah' created evil, when before you said he created neutrality so that humans could choose. Which is it, if you please? :)
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Mine delineates a (the?) purpose for God creating the universe. Does yours, and if so, what is it?

God didn't create the early universe - Satan did. God then created the later universe from out of this early universe - and living things, including us - to liberate the spirits that Satan had trapped in the early universe.

How can you not move past it before you take on other issues regarding reality?

Move past what? I believe I understand Reality. But I remain open to the possibility that I do not, and that the voices I hear (and at least some of the things I see that other people don't seem to see) are hallucinations associated with some form of mental illness. We must question everything in our search for Truth.

Well then, what were you and what caused you to change?

I was born into an Agnostic/loosely Christian environment. Growing up, I didn't feel comfortable with the ideas of those around me. I had my way of seeing the world and my place in it, and it wasn't a very good fit with the ideas with which I was raised. So I spent many, many years searching amongst quite a large number of the religions and philosophies of the world for a worldview that was a better fit to mine, deeply uncomfortable with the idea that what God was telling me was unique. I found my spiritual home in Islaam, albeit a form of Islaam which some would describe as Gnostic (although my worldview deviates even from surviving Gnostic forms of Islaam and what we know of earlier Gnostic forms that appear to have since died out). For a long time, both before I came to Islaam and after, I struggled to fully accept the enormity of what God was telling me, which challenges so much of what we are taught around the world. It is only relatively recently that I have fully embraced what God has been telling me all along.

I'm sure, but you still have a mighty grip on reality in spite of those aural apparitions hounding you. Again, can you move forward until you've settled that critical issue?

As I've said above, I believe I have settled the issue (though I continue to keep an open mind).
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
God didn't create the early universe - Satan did. God then created the later universe from out of this early universe - and living things, including us - to liberate the spirits that Satan had trapped in the early universe.

There's where you depart from a rational philosophy. All we know is that God or simple chance caused the universe, nothing more--there's no evidence for either. To declare that Satan did, much less exists, it completely beyond rationality, on top of your declaration that there are two Gods, one evil. Or are you saying God has an evil side? There's no rational for that either. The only evil that I see in the universe is man-made.

Move past what?

....Past the possibility of mental illness. Until you've eliminated that possibility, how can you consider anything else you find to not be a result of that, and actually a more likely result?

I believe I understand Reality. But I remain open to the possibility that I do not, and that the voices I hear (and at least some of the things I see that other people don't seem to see) are hallucinations associated with some form of mental illness. We must question everything in our search for Truth.

Indeed. In fact, your ability to recognize a possible mental problem is unusual to say the least, unless it's a ruse. I was thinking you were very rational about things otherwise, but this Satan influence is a complete departure from that. I'm no specialist at all, and I don't know if I could trust people who claim to be one; but I do think you need an external frame of reference, philosophical rather than a religious one, to deal with this. You've likely heard some form of this before.

I was born into an Agnostic/loosely Christian environment. Growing up, I didn't feel comfortable with the ideas of those around me. I had my way of seeing the world and my place in it, and it wasn't a very good fit with the ideas with which I was raised. So I spent many, many years searching amongst quite a large number of the religions and philosophies of the world for a worldview that was a better fit to mine, deeply uncomfortable with the idea that what God was telling me was unique. I found my spiritual home in Islaam, albeit a form of Islaam which some would describe as Gnostic (although my worldview deviates even from surviving Gnostic forms of Islaam and what we know of earlier Gnostic forms that appear to have since died out). For a long time, both before I came to Islaam and after, I struggled to fully accept the enormity of what God was telling me, which challenges so much of what we are taught around the world. It is only relatively recently that I have fully embraced what God has been telling me all along.

Perhaps, instead of looking for something that fit you, you should have been looking for pieces that fit Truth. I think I was lucky, going from Christianity straight to laissez-faire deism. From there is was a short jump to equating Truth with God. But then I've never had the voices or any other influence that might be called paranormal or supernatural or the like.

As I've said above, I believe I have settled the issue (though I continue to keep an open mind).

But if as you've said, you wonder about them.....then the issue isn't settled in your own mind. Do they respond to you? If so, why not ask them to demonstrate that their reality is founded in something more than your mind? If they're a divine external source, they would be able to do that. I understand it would most likely require that you muster an exceptional amount of courage to do that. In any case, peace be upon you.
 

Unfathomable Tao

Student of the Way
What do you believe the problem of evil to be?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent, and this does not describe God. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is spiteful, and this is also alien to God's nature. Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? If he be able and willing, which is the only thing befitting a god, then why does he not prevent evil, and why do bad things happen?"- The Problem of Evil as attributed to Epicurus by Lactantus.

Thus far, I've gotten responses that vindicate the Problem of Evil as a valid objection to the Abrahamic god. The choice argument makes it so that god would either not be able to prevent evil: cannot create choice without evil OR chooses to create evil, or create the potential for evil- making this entity directly responsible.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
What do you believe the problem of evil to be?

May I answer that? The root of all evil isn't money, power, fame, sex or whatever. People can and do handle those with honor. The root of ALL evil is a moral/legal double standard, from the individual level all the way up to the biggest governments.... the root of ALL evil.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Thus far, I've gotten responses that vindicate the Problem of Evil as a valid objection to the Abrahamic god. The choice argument makes it so that god would either not be able to prevent evil: cannot create choice without evil OR chooses to create evil, or create the potential for evil- making this entity directly responsible.

God can not intervene because that would undermine our free will to choose to be evil or not--THE sole purpose for the universe.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Or are you saying God has an evil side?

Effectively, yes. This is Satan.

you wonder about them.....then the issue isn't settled in your own mind

In the search for Truth, can anything ever be fully settled? If we are certain that we have all the answers, that there is nothing more to be learnt, I believe that is a dangerous position.

Do they respond to you?

I converse with God and Satan all the time.

why not ask them to demonstrate that their reality is founded in something more than your mind? If they're a divine external source, they would be able to do that

I have done this, and God has shown me in ways that I find increasingly convincing. But I still have to leave room for doubt, for questioning, not least because of the possibility that the Voices that I attribute to God (and Their Demonstrations of Their Reality) are in fact the voices and actions of the Devil pretending to be God, to lead me astray.
 
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