Why do believers believe what they believe?

[PureX]

That's true, which is likely why many people visit psychiatrists and psychologists to "find out" who they are...and how to change so they can be happier, I suppose.

And it's interesting that so often what they find out is that they were poisined by someone else's negative idea of them, back when they were unable to defend themselves against it. And so that poisonous idea of them became their own idea of themselves, and it made them unhappy.

The point being that we ARE often susceptible to the realities of others, even when they harm us, unless and until we find the willingness and ability to face and confront them, and we can finally reject them. It's not automatic, or easy, for a lot of people. And most people will never bother to do this unless they are forced to by the discomfort of their own circumstances.

 

[PureX]

It's something like, " My friend believes it, I believe my friend, so I believe it too".

As ole' Becky gal put it in Jesus Camp, "The Bible says it , I believe it, that settles it".

It's much easier to 'go along to get along' in life than it is to question the authorities.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's much easier to 'go along to get along' in life than it is to question the authorities.

It's why I dismissed theism and went on a route of verification rather than unestablished conviction.

 

[YoursTrue]

And it's interesting that so often what they find out is that they were poisined by someone else's negative idea of them, back when they were unable to defend themselves against it. And so that poisonous idea of them became their own idea of themselves, and it made them unhappy.

The point being that we ARE often susceptible to the realities of others, even when they harm us, unless and until we find the willingness and ability to face and confront them, and we can finally reject them. It's not automatic, or easy, for a lot of people. And most people will never bother to do this unless they are forced to by the discomfort of their own circumstances.

I daresay that sometimes it's impossible. Or better said, it may be impossible. A person would have to contemplate the 'good' things he can do to help others or to figure what he enjoys doing so he can concentrate on these things rather than worrying about what others think of him. Not all can escape from emotionally destructive circumstances. That is where prayer may come in for those who trust and believe in God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Information that God exists?

I did not say information that God exists. I said "given new information that affects our thought process..."
There is no information that God exists.

 

[osgart]

Did you pray and ask that unseen possibility, even if you don't believe?

I tried that when I was young to no avail.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that when someone wants to dismiss something that they are reading, they tend to focus very literally and intently on every word hoping to find an excuse to dismiss the idea that they are so eager to dismiss.

Speaking of looking for excuses to dismiss something, some people do a lot of that: #586

 

[PureX]

It's why I dismissed theism and went on a route of verification rather than unestablished conviction.

Something everyone should do as they become adults.

 

[PureX]

I daresay that sometimes it's impossible. Or better said, it may be impossible. A person would have to contemplate the 'good' things he can do to help others or to figure what he enjoys doing so he can concentrate on these things rather than worrying about what others think of him. Not all can escape from emotionally destructive circumstances. That is where prayer may come in for those who trust and believe in God.

i agree. and prayer is available to everyone. While psychotherapy is not.

 

[Audie]

I did not say information that God exists. I said "given new information that affects our thought process..."
There is no information that God exists.

Just making sure

 

[YoursTrue]

And it's interesting that so often what they find out is that they were poisined by someone else's negative idea of them, back when they were unable to defend themselves against it. And so that poisonous idea of them became their own idea of themselves, and it made them unhappy.

The point being that we ARE often susceptible to the realities of others, even when they harm us, unless and until we find the willingness and ability to face and confront them, and we can finally reject them. It's not automatic, or easy, for a lot of people. And most people will never bother to do this unless they are forced to by the discomfort of their own circumstances.

Nothing to say much, but I've been reading again some of Freud's ideas about ego, id, and alter-ego. After all these years, it's beginning to make sense. I'm older now. I read his books many years ago, but am looking at some of his theories again.

 

[YoursTrue]

i agree. and prayer is available to everyone. While psychotherapy is not.

That is true and a good point. But I must say that some psychotherapists aren't what they should be. In other words, the patient's ideas knock against the therapist's ideas, and much of it depends on what the therapist says and believes. Which may or may not be helpful to the patient. How do you feel about that?

 

[CG Didymus]

Just making sure

I thought Baha'is believed there was information about whether God exists or not. It comes from their prophet's writings. And that's been the criticism, because he says God is real, doesn't make him real.

 

[Trailblazer]

I thought Baha'is believed there was information about whether God exists or not. It comes from their prophet's writings. And that's been the criticism, because he says God is real, doesn't make him real.

What Baha'u'llah wrote is not information about whether God exists or not, since it is not facts about God.
Baha'is believe it is a Revelation from God but it cannot be considered factual since it can never be proven.

information
facts provided or learned about something or someone.

information - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[PureX]

That is true and a good point. But I must say that some psychotherapists aren't what they should be. In other words, the patient's ideas knock against the therapist's ideas, and much of it depends on what the therapist says and believes. Which may or may not be helpful to the patient. How do you feel about that?

Humans are fallible.

 

[Truthseeker]

Where is the unity in "doing" one's own thing? But I don't think anybody truly goes against all people all the time. And it seems like the teachings of the Baha'i Faith is aimed towards getting people to be on the same set of beliefs in order to get along in love and peace.

There is supposed to be "unity in diversity" in the Baha'i Faith, though @Trailblazer is more outside the norm than most. But she is entitled to have her own understanding.

 

[Truthseeker]

In fact, with the Baha'i Faith there is a limit on what people can do and interpret their own way. If they go against their various "covenants", a person will get kicked out and shunned. They call them "covenant-breakers". And even if it's one of the Baha'i laws, a person can be sanctioned for continually breaking them. So, even a supposed, easy-going, love everybody religion, like the Baha'i Faith, has its limits on people interpreting things the wrong way and doing the wrong things.

Specifically, the "covenants" are to not try to create your own splinter group in defiance of the authority of Abdu'l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi, ort he Universal House of Justice. Just wanted to make that clear just in case. They can be sanctioned for "publicly" and repeatedly breaking them. Just clarifying, just in case.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think that when someone wants to dismiss something that they are reading, they tend to focus very literally and intently on every word hoping to find an excuse to dismiss the idea that they are so eager to dismiss.

I think most everybody rejects some religious beliefs. So, is it finding an "excuse" or finding reasons to dismiss some of them. And for many, all of them get dismissed except theirs.

Now when it comes to something like Fundy Christianity, that takes the Bible and NT very literally, I would agree, lots of people are looking for excuses not to believe... and they don't have to look very hard or very far... "In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth."

 

[CG Didymus]

There is supposed to be "unity in diversity" in the Baha'i Faith, though @Trailblazer is more outside the norm than most. But she is entitled to have her own understanding.

There has to be a limit to what can be tolerated before it causes problems. I knew a Baha'i who had a lot of issues herself but was always critical of others and very blunt about pointing out things. One Baha'i lady, who was married to a non-Baha'i, finally talked him into letting her host a fireside. He actually took part and was involved in the discussion. But then in the third fireside, that Baha'i lady said something negative about one of his comments. That became the last fireside held there. He told his wife, "No more, I will not be criticized in my own house."

That's why I think it is tougher on Baha'is, because, if there is going to be peace, it's going to have to be Baha'is that are the peacemakers... the ones that find ways to bring people together. That, they themselves, become models of humility and understanding and respect for others. If it ain't there, then no one is going to respect them.

 

[CG Didymus]

Specifically, the "covenants" are to not try to create your own splinter group in defiance of the authority of Abdu'l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi, ort he Universal House of Justice. Just wanted to make that clear just in case. They can be sanctioned for "publicly" and repeatedly breaking them. Just clarifying, just in case.

I knew Steven Scroll and heard Juan Cole speak. I my opinion, they were forced out of the Faith by overly authoritarian leaders. This is from Juan Cole's blog...

Here I wish to examine social control mechanisms in the American Baha’i community. These include mandatory prepublication censorship of everything Baha'is publish about their religion, administrative expulsion, blackballing, shunning and threats of shunning. What are the ideological bases of these control mechanisms? How is power attained and managed in a lay community without a clergy? I wish to stress here that this article is not concerned with the essence or scriptures or theology of the religion, but with the actualities of its day-to-day technologies of control.​