Why do christianity get so much hate?

[Samael_Khan]

I can't agree with you there. I will be the first to agree that some Israelis exist who are racist. But not most, and not the government. For a government to be racist, it would have to have discriminatory laws on the books.

IMO we can also tell whether a government's actions are racist despite their laws showing even the opposite.

 

[metis]

As the saying goes, 2 Jews, 3 opinions. I'm sure you and others believe the account is a myth anyway. Perhaps another discussion for another thread.

No, it's just not even remotely logical based on myriads on teachings of love & compassion for all.

Secondly, I don't worship the Bible nor think that everything said in it is 100% accurate.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it's just not even remotely logical based on myriads on teachings of love & compassion for all.

Secondly, I don't worship the Bible nor think that everything said in it is 100% accurate.

OK, but what about the idea that Mary was the "eternal virgin"? If the theory of evolution is true in its entire concept, how would that belief about Mary in a major religion fit in with the theory of evolution? (I know what some [religious] nay-sayers say about this, in the past I did some research, so I'm not going to bring it out.) So I would say at the least the virgin birth is inconsistent with the theory of evolution. Furthermore, I can understand that Darwin was said to not attend church later on...kind of like Spinoza maybe, I guess, but from different cultures and eras.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

IMO we can also tell whether a government's actions are racist despite their laws showing even the opposite.

Again, what makes a government (or any other institution) racist, is if they have actual laws or policies that discriminate based on perceived race. If no such policies are spelled out, you can claim that a government official is racist, but you cannot claim the institution itself is racist.

Consider this. The nation of Lower Slabovia has a law against premeditated murder. They get a rotten Prime Minister who plans and carries out the murder of his wife. Does that mean that the government of Lower Slabovia is murderous? Of course not.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Again, what makes a government (or any other institution) racist, is if they have actual laws or policies that discriminate based on perceived race. If no such policies are spelled out, you can claim that a government official is racist, but you cannot claim the institution itself is racist.

Consider this. The nation of Lower Slabovia has a law against premeditated murder. They get a rotten Prime Minister who plans and carries out the murder of his wife. Does that mean that the government of Lower Slabovia is murderous? Of course not.

Yeah. What you say makes sense. The government would be racist rather than the institution. It would then be that institutions are ignored.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yeah. What you say makes sense. The government would be racist rather than the institution. It would then be that institutions are ignored.

My friend, we are having a semantical misunderstanding. We are using the word government in completely different ways, and I don't think one of us is right and the other is wrong, it's just different.

For you, you seem to use "government" to refer to the people in power. I don't. To me, government refers to the institution, not the people. For example, Biden is my president, but he is not my government. My government is the constitution and how it plays out in real life. Biden is merely a person who works FOR that government, fully accountable to its rules.

This is an important distinction because when we speak of "systemic" racism, we're are referring the the system, not the people. That's where the word systemic comes from.

BTW, I just noticed that you do Chi Gong and Tai Chi. Marvelous! For seven years, I did both Northern Shaolin Longfist, a bit of Praying Mantis, and Yang style Tai Chi along with Chi Gong. Not only was it the best thing I ever did for my back, but it made me enormously sensitive to even the most subtle changes around me. I don't think I have ever been as aware, either before or since.

 

[Samael_Khan]

My friend, we are having a semantical misunderstanding. We are using the word government in completely different ways, and I don't think one of us is right and the other is wrong, it's just different.

For you, you seem to use "government" to refer to the people in power. I don't. To me, government refers to the institution, not the people. For example, Biden is my president, but he is not my government. My government is the constitution and how it plays out in real life. Biden is merely a person who works FOR that government, fully accountable to its rules.

This is an important distinction because when we speak of "systemic" racism, we're are referring the the system, not the people. That's where the word systemic comes from.

BTW, I just noticed that you do Chi Gong and Tai Chi. Marvelous! For seven years, I did both Northern Shaolin Longfist, a bit of Praying Mantis, and Yang style Tai Chi along with Chi Gong. Not only was it the best thing I ever did for my back, but it made me enormously sensitive to even the most subtle changes around me. I don't think I have ever been as aware, either before or since.

I was so very, very lucky to have studied at a school that had an exceptional lineage. Sifu was the son of a man who had been the body guard of the last emperor of China.

Yes I think it is a semantics issue. I will reflect on that.

Oooh! Its so interesting to hear you have done similar martial arts as well! Yes I do Qigong, Yang style Taijiquan, 7 Star Praying Mantis, and I do Foshan Wing Chun (not regularly with the latter). I am part of former Grand Master Lee Kam Wing's lineage.

I can relate to you with regards to the body changes. They help so much with the aches and pains! I will be sticking with it for as long as i can. Even when it comes to self defense, living in a country with high levels of violence, it makes me more confident which makes me less of a target. Learning how to apply the arts are my favourite part. And learning Qigong helped me find my spiritual path. I am much more aware of my body changes now but still have to work on awareness in general.

Your Sifu sounds like an awesome character. How hard was the training? And did it add anything spiritual to your life? Did it enlighten you somewhat? And do you still incorporate aspects of these arts in your life?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And learning Qigong helped me find my spiritual path.

I first enrolled in the school to learn Tai Chi, because I had heard it was "moving meditation." I had just gone through a divorce, and was trying to find some peace of mind. I'm the sort of person that my brain never shuts up--I fail miserably at traditional forms of mediation. I figured if anything could finally just shut up my brain, it would be the necessity of focusing intently on an action.

Once there, I couldn't get enough. The first thing I realized was I was all yin and no yang. I had been greatly bullied as a kid, and had often longed to be able to defend myself, but I was afraid of fighting. Now as an adult, I realized I needed to face and overcome that fear. So while I continued with the Tai Chi/ Chi Gong class, I also enrolled in the Shaolin class.

Your Sifu sounds like an awesome character. How hard was the training?

The training was BRUTAL! LOL Oh my gosh. There were days we had to do 100 kicks. Days we had to do 50 pushups.

And you have to understand. I'm the girl that could never catch a softball. My brain was great, but I just was never the most coordinated person. Everyone else got their first belt after about 3 months. It took me a whole flipping year, and was deeply humiliating. My teacher took me aside one day and said to me, "Do you know who my best students are? It's not the ones with the talent. They come and go all the time. The best student is the one who keeps coming back." So that's what I did. I kept going back. Five days a week, 52 weeks year, for seven years.

There were only three women enrolled at my particular branch, and many times I was the only one attending. That meant that the only people I could spar with were men. Trust me, even after seven years, I still lost badly on a regular basis. LOL I never stopped feeling afraid to fight. What changed was my ability to fight anyhow, despite my fear. But, uh, YEAH I got hurt. I fractured my shin a bit blocking a kick, and on one occasion I dislocated my shoulder. Ouchie Wawa! LOL

Here is the thing though. Is a woman fighting against a man a fair thing? No. Biologically, physically, men just come out ahead. HOWEVER, I am certain that I became a far better fighter than I otherwise would have been if the bar hadn't been raised, and that is something I'm very grateful for.

Not all the other schools functioned the same way. There was one school where women ONLY sparred with other women. When I'd go for my belt tests, Sifu would pair me up with them sometimes. Well, I would fight the way I had learned to fight--for my life! LOL But these women were used to a lower bar. And I would clean their clocks. One of the moments most shocking to me was when I kicked one, and she flew backward through the air and into the mirror. I was in absolute shock. I realized that this must never happen again. When sparring with the other women, I needed to be aware it was ME that had the advantage for a change, that it was them who were afraid, and I needed to be more gentle.

And did it add anything spiritual to your life? Did it enlighten you somewhat? And do you still incorporate aspects of these arts in your life?

One thing led to another. I had learned that Tai Chi and Chi Gong were what is known as "practical Taoism," and that there was also philosophical Taoism, and religious Taoism. I immersed myself in the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu's Inner Chapters (the books are still with me all these decades later) and other books about philosophical Taoism (especially loved the Tao of Pooh!). I even learned a little bit about religious Taoism, and became very good friends with a group of them that I am still friends with today.

Although my religion is Judaism, there is truth elsewhere as well. Many of the things I learned (both in and out of the class) have stayed with me all these years, helping to form my present spirituality. Wu wei remains a guiding principle for me.--be like water, go around the rocks. Did you know that the rabbis teach the same thing? "Be like a reed, not like a cedar."

I have scaled down my stuff and my life--I'm more happy with fewer things. I have learned a great deal more about who I am as an individual, and am now content to simply be my own uncarved block. And the things I learned have blended perfectly with my great love of nature.

Oh, and I became a believer in Chi. When I started at the school I thought "Chinese superstition." But I experienced things that totally changed my mind. Isn't it lovely when life surprises us with something like that?

And I have to say that doing Kung Fu completely altered how I see myself. I am no longer a victim.

So, my friend, your turn now! And don't skimp. LOL I want to know details, details! LOL

 

[Samael_Khan]

I first enrolled in the school to learn Tai Chi, because I had heard it was "moving meditation." I had just gone through a divorce, and was trying to find some peace of mind. I'm the sort of person that my brain never shuts up--I fail miserably at traditional forms of mediation. I figured if anything could finally just shut up my brain, it would be the necessity of focusing intently on an action.

Once there, I couldn't get enough. The first thing I realized was I was all yin and no yang. I had been greatly bullied as a kid, and had often longed to be able to defend myself, but I was afraid of fighting. Now as an adult, I realized I needed to face and overcome that fear. So while I continued with the Tai Chi/ Chi Gong class, I also enrolled in the Shaolin class.



The training was BRUTAL! LOL Oh my gosh. There were days we had to do 100 kicks. Days we had to do 50 pushups.

And you have to understand. I'm the girl that could never catch a softball. My brain was great, but I just was never the most coordinated person. Everyone else got their first belt after about 3 months. It took me a whole flipping year, and was deeply humiliating. My teacher took me aside one day and said to me, "Do you know who my best students are? It's not the ones with the talent. They come and go all the time. The best student is the one who keeps coming back." So that's what I did. I kept going back. Five days a week, 52 weeks year, for seven years.

There were only three women enrolled at my particular branch, and many times I was the only one attending. That meant that the only people I could spar with were men. Trust me, even after seven years, I still lost badly on a regular basis. LOL I never stopped feeling afraid to fight. What changed was my ability to fight anyhow, despite my fear. But, uh, YEAH I got hurt. I fractured my shin a bit blocking a kick, and on one occasion I dislocated my shoulder. Ouchie Wawa! LOL

Here is the thing though. Is a woman fighting against a man a fair thing? No. Biologically, physically, men just come out ahead. HOWEVER, I am certain that I became a far better fighter than I otherwise would have been if the bar hadn't been raised, and that is something I'm very grateful for.

Not all the other schools functioned the same way. There was one school where women ONLY sparred with other women. When I'd go for my belt tests, Sifu would pair me up with them sometimes. Well, I would fight the way I had learned to fight--for my life! LOL But these women were used to a lower bar. And I would clean their clocks. One of the moments most shocking to me was when I kicked one, and she flew backward through the air and into the mirror. I was in absolute shock. I realized that this must never happen again. When sparring with the other women, I needed to be aware it was ME that had the advantage for a change, that it was them who were afraid, and I needed to be more gentle.

One thing led to another. I had learned that Tai Chi and Chi Gong were what is known as "practical Taoism," and that there was also philosophical Taoism, and religious Taoism. I immersed myself in the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu's Inner Chapters (the books are still with me all these decades later) and other books about philosophical Taoism (especially loved the Tao of Pooh!). I even learned a little bit about religious Taoism, and became very good friends with a group of them that I am still friends with today.

Although my religion is Judaism, there is truth elsewhere as well. Many of the things I learned (both in and out of the class) have stayed with me all these years, helping to form my present spirituality. Wu wei remains a guiding principle for me.--be like water, go around the rocks. Did you know that the rabbis teach the same thing? "Be like a reed, not like a cedar."

I have scaled down my stuff and my life--I'm more happy with fewer things. I have learned a great deal more about who I am as an individual, and am now content to simply be my own uncarved block. And the things I learned have blended perfectly with my great love of nature.

Oh, and I became a believer in Chi. When I started at the school I thought "Chinese superstition." But I experienced things that totally changed my mind. Isn't it lovely when life surprises us with something like that?

And I have to say that doing Kung Fu completely altered how I see myself. I am no longer a victim.

So, my friend, your turn now! And don't skimp. LOL I want to know details, details! LOL

Wow! You had an amazing experience! Thanks for sharing!

So for the past couple of years I have had it quite rough. I left my religion, lost my friendship circle, covid made work uncertain, i was struggling in my relationship, and I felt spiritually lost. I had no identity. All this added to my stress andd I was getting constant headaches and and chest pains. So I went to the doctor last year and they said my blood pressure was beginning to become a problem. Also I had a weird dream which unusually shook me and my girlfriend says it was my spiritual guide and saying that I am yearning for a spiritual home and that I might find it soon ( which i considered nonsense). Then at the beginning of the year my friend said that he also had high blood pressure and stress issues, and discovered that his former Sifu was back in town and he was considering going back and doing Taichi. I was like "why not" because i am aware of its association with relaxation and health. So i took him up on it.

We started with qigong and then did taichi in the lesson and i was hooked. Then later in the month he asked if I wanted to go to Mantis class and i said i would try it out even though i am the most unfit person in the world. I mean who doesnt want to be like Bruce Lee, haha. So I went and even though I had to lie down after 15 minutes because the warmups alone killed me and took me out the whole lesson, i continued.

Lesson after lesson my body failed me. My feet started getting unbearably sore in Taichi and i realised that i had plantar fasciitus, which now still crops up, but I have learnt hoe to ease it and deal with it. I couldn't balance well in taichi, which hindered my progress. I couldn't relax in taichi either, which i eventually realised my weak muscles and scatter brained mind was the issue. Only in the past two months have i figured out how to do these things correctly! My balancing issues were just due to my mind not comprehending what shoulder width means! Mostly these days my mind is what struggles to adapt to taochi cos it cant comprehend certain things.

7 star mantis is another beast. I eventually realised that I was eating remotely properly for exercise which is why i ran out of energy each lesson. Now I eat healthier and balanced and I havent collapsed again. I couldnt physically do exercises without tiring out so within the past couple of months i have done extra workouts outside of class and my body can now keep up. I had to start doing knuckle pushups on ceramic tiles so that i could do them in class (because if i gave up in class everybody would have to do the workout over again. I didnt want to make enemies.). I was afraid of getting hurt. Bone on bone blocking was painful. We were left with bruises. Sifu crapped me out because sometimes i would flinch in anticipation of a kick because he said i was a bad partner to train with if i do such things. He often punched us full contact in demonstrations. And now i am used to pain. My prain doesnt register much of it. I feel pain and my brain just says "meh". Now that i am used to the physical exertion, my brain is giving me problems. There is too many moves in my head and my brain gets confused when doing forms. Eish! And now I have begun to do jumping crescent kicks which I am not flexible enough to do.

Then there is Wing Chun which I don't prioritise. It is so weird that I am struggling to comprehend centre line movement consistency. When i started i wasnt flexible enough to do centreline work and had to take up Yoga to become more flexible! Then, THEN, I did sparring with guys who are waaaay more advanced than me. It wasnt like sparring with the girls who dont like getting hit. (Much like your experience. I am basically you when it comes to sparring). I literally had fear. And my brain froze. And i couldnt dodge. And i couldnt block. I have only done sparring a hand full of times but it made me realise a lot about fighting and about myself. Was an extremely humbling experience. Made we way more confident in confrontations. And now I have visibly improved in sparring.

Martial arts has made me value my own experiences so much. I used to be a book worm but actual experience I find to be what really tells me about life. I has given me a whole paradigm shift. I now claim practical Taoism as my spiritual practice. It has opened my mind to exploring the philosophy of Taoism, Hinduism and Bhuddism. So it has given me direction.

I feel as if Wuji, the balance of Yin and Yang is what I have been desiring my whole life because i always felt uneasy when things arent balanced.

I am starting to become a believer in Qi myself because of experience. Not that I know what qi is at all. And it is both lovely and shocking when life suprises us with these experiences.

I too am not a victim any more. I am more confident now and neither am I a victim.

I have seen the Tao of Pooh in the shops but haven't bought it for fear of it being a flawed understanding of Taoism. What did you find good about it? Because now I will probably buy it.

 

[stvdv]

Yes so then applying this to what we were previously talking about, having people who are part of an oppressed group in positions of power of the oppressors doesn't mean that there is no oppression taking place. Which is why Arabs being part of Israeli government isn't proof to me that Israeli's aren't racist towards Palestinians.

True

We live in Kali Yuga, meaning the majority of the people behave really bad. In Kali Yuga the fights occur in the family. The Yuga before Kali the fights were between families, and the Yuga before that the fights were between countries

It would be a miracle if there were not many racists. 50% divorce rate gives a good picture about how little Love there is

My guess: Racism = C / (Love). Less Love, means more racism

Note: I did meet a girl from Israel (not Christian nor Jew) who seemed to be the most loving person I have ever seen. So, there will always be a few pure souls, fortunately.

 

[Samael_Khan]

True

We live in Kali Yuga, meaning the majority of the people behave really bad. In Kali Yuga the fights occur in the family. The Yuga before Kali the fights were between families, and the Yuga before that the fights were between countries

It would be a miracle if there were not many racists. 50% divorce rate gives a good picture about how little Love there is

My guess: Racism = C / (Love). Less Love, means more racism

Note: I did meet a girl from Israel (not Christian nor Jew) who seemed to be the most loving person I have ever seen. So, there will always be a few pure souls, fortunately.

I watched a video on the Yuga's before. The Kali Yuga is especially interesting. I do not know to what extent the nature of the fights have changed though. We do know that the nature of current conflict has been somewhat different because of the rise of materialism, which I think the Kali Yuga predicts.

There are good people everywhere and horrible people everywhere. The horrible overshadow the good but we can still find the good.

 

[metis]

OK, but what about the idea that Mary was the "eternal virgin"?

I don't believe that as I said, so why are you asking me?

Furthermore, I can understand that Darwin was said to not attend church later on...kind of like Spinoza maybe, I guess, but from different cultures and eras.

So? Darwin may have been upset when maliciously attacked by all so many Christians.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't believe that as I said, so why are you asking me?

Oh, I didn't realize you had answered that.

So? Darwin may have been upset when maliciously attacked by all so many Christians.

No, I don't think so. But that may be so, although his wife apparently continued going to their church while he stayed outside. From what I read, his daughter died at an early age -- he was very fond of her and very unhappy about this and apparently couldn't relegate it within his religious milieu.

 

[ppp]

Again, what makes a government (or any other institution) racist, is if they have actual laws or policies that discriminate based on perceived race. If no such policies are spelled out, you can claim that a government official is racist, but you cannot claim the institution itself is racist.

Consider this. The nation of Lower Slabovia has a law against premeditated murder. They get a rotten Prime Minister who plans and carries out the murder of his wife. Does that mean that the government of Lower Slabovia is murderous? Of course not.

A institution does not exist save as the actions of the people who officiate and support said institution. When the officials who are charged with the the responsibility to provide checks and balances on the actions of said prime minister choose to look the other way, then yes it is a murderous government. In much the same way that a police department that fails to respond to 911 calls from the abused wife of the department captain is complicit in that abuse.

Human institutions do not exist except as a function of the humans that comprise it. Laws and policies that are ignored or circumvented by said humans are no different from laws and policies that do not exist.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Wow! You had an amazing experience! Thanks for sharing!

This was a fantastic mutual share It's so nice to connect to someone who has shared many of the same experiences.

Sifu was back in town and he was considering going back and doing Taichi. I was like "why not" because i am aware of its association with relaxation and health. So i took him up on it.

Makes perfect sense!

Lesson after lesson my body failed me.

Again, a lot of overlap in experience.

7 star mantis is another beast. I eventually realised that I was eating remotely properly for exercise which is why i ran out of energy each lesson. Now I eat healthier and balanced and I havent collapsed again.

Oh that is so good that you figured that out.

Bone on bone blocking was painful.

Yeap. I remember this all too well LOL.

Martial arts has made me value my own experiences so much. I used to be a book worm but actual experience I find to be what really tells me about life. I has given me a whole paradigm shift. I now claim practical Taoism as my spiritual practice. It has opened my mind to exploring the philosophy of Taoism, Hinduism and Bhuddism. So it has given me direction.

I totally get this.

I am starting to become a believer in Qi myself because of experience. Not that I know what qi is at all. And it is both lovely and shocking when life suprises us with these experiences.

Tell me how it feels to you. I experimented with it a lot, and found that the feelings were similar to the push or pull you feel with two magnets, making me thing that it may very well be some kind of electromagnetic field, although a very,, very subtle one.

I have seen the Tao of Pooh in the shops but haven't bought it for fear of it being a flawed understanding of Taoism. What did you find good about it? Because now I will probably buy it.

I found that it's simplicity not only informed about Taoism, but demonstrated Taoism. It is basically a text that uses the stories of Winnie the Pooh to explain Taoist concepts in ways that are easy to grasp.

Here is my favorite. There was a rhyme that goes:

Coddleston, coddleston, coddleston pie
A fly can't bird but a bird an fly
Ask me a question and I'll tell you why
Coddleston, coddleston, coddleston pie.

I still remember the author saying, "Inner nature." It is the inner nature of the fly that it can't bird, and the inner nature of the bird that it can fly. Ziran is sometimes translated as "uncarved block," and is connected with the ideal state of a person or thing in harmony with the Tao. The uncarved block means something in its natural, pure, unaltered state.

Anyhow, I highly, highly recommend it, and I hope you truly enjoy.