Why do Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal God of the Old Testament?

[74x12]

If god were represented as a sentient force of nature that was simply doing it's thing to maintain the world and reality based on certain standards, then I wouldn't call god evil. I wouldn't call such a god good either. Because what god thinks is good differs from what humans think is good. Certainly, you wouldn't expect a sheep to call a wolf that eats it fellows good, even if such actions keep the sheep's population in check so they do not ultimately consume all the food in the area and then starve to death. At most, I'd call such a god apathetic.

However, the god of the bible isn't represented in such a way. The god of the bible is portrayed as being vengeful and sadistic (not an opinion), god IS portrayed clearly as being a vengeful and sadistic entity. How is being vengeful and sadistic virtuous? Is it virtuous to torture people? Jesus clearly explained that people will go to a fiery afterlife and be tortured there. That's in the New Testament that's supposedly all smiles, hugs, and rainbows!

God is called a consuming fire. That's what I based my argument off of. Yes He does have the nature of pure force in His holiness. Holiness is set apart. So it literally pains God to see evil or what not. That being said, He restrains/withholds wrath because of His love nature. No He isn't portrayed as being sadistic. That really is an opinion. God goes by the rule of "fair warning" btw. God always warns humanity.
1. Respectfully, You don't get to speak for all humans. So you're wrong to say God is not good by human standards or understanding.
2. Even if all humans did agree; that doesn't mean they're correct. Truth is a constant after all. Truth cannot be invented only discovered. Almost all humans have been wrong before and there is nothing stopping them being wrong again.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Can't explain the children then?

Ok I figured God must of reasoned it as acceptable collateral damage.

Then again all that is still good and righteous. It's God after all.

You're absolutely 100% right and I agree with you, I have no understanding of any of this. Not the text mind you, it's Christians themselves who keep saying God is good and righteous after reading all of it.

Christians need some serious direction as to what gets determined as being good and righteous because the Old Testament God is not it.

Do you have any idea, that those people were not fully human beings, that God had put to death in the old testament.

Maybe if you go and read Genesis Chapters 6&7.
Even in the book of Joshua, Joshua sent spy's over the river Jordan to spy out the land to see what the people were like that lived on the other side of the river Jordan.

And when they came back and told Joshua that were Giant People over there, that they felt like grasshopper in their sight.

These are those back in
Genesis Chapters 6 &7. That were
cross breeds between human beings and those fallen angels, These are those that God had put to death.
Could you imagine trying to live with these beings. It's like a child that is 3 yrs old standing next to someone who is 7 to 8 feet tall. Not only were they tall by any means, But also had super human strength

Therefore those beings were not fully human beings, but those fallen angels that seduce women to have children by.
Back in Genesis Chapters 6 & 7.

My suggestion is for people to study out the old testament and follow the Genoelogy of these hybrids,fallen angels.
Then you will find out why God had these half breeds put to death.

Therefore God did not have human beings, men and women and children put to death, but those hybrids put to death.

 

[metis]

Aquinas felt that much of the OT was errant because it posited God doing some pretty nasty stuff, plus he believed that if the OT was entirely word-for-word correct, then Jesus could not have been the Messiah. To him, the general OT set up Jesus and his message so that it did have at least that as being its validity.

 

[Neb]

I'm beginning to see the psychology unfold as to why people oftentimes follow psychopathic Madmen with undying loyalty and fervor. In this case a psychopathic deity.

What is the question?

"Why do Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal God of the Old Testament?"

I gave you the answer based on my belief that is in the bible.

Name calling according to Merriam-Webster: the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts.

But anyway do you agree that death is God’s will?

 

[Twilight Hue]

When I was younger I used to view God as a just and righteous figure that had no faults. But now that I am older I kind of see it in a different light.

Today I think God is neither evil or good. God is what God needs to be at that moment. If he needs to be cruel unjust genocidal diety as he was towards the philistines then so be it. If he wants to be a protecting authority towards the Hebrew people so be it. That his choice and we could judge his actions whether or not there good or evil, but it's moot point. Because we don't have the authority to condemn God for his actions because we hold no power over God.

But if I was forced to give an answer to justify his reasoning maybe it for the blame doesn't fall on us? I mean if he does all the horrible stuff then were not guilty of it right? Like killing in his name. Instead of blaming the people doing the killing instead we blame God for demanding they go in and kill everyone in his name.

The toughest part for me was reasoning in the atrocities described in the Old Testament, and even some books of the Apocrypha. Essentially I had moved at all the side and concentrated on the good aspects of the New Testament.

I remember various pastors trying to justify by saying God isn't a touchy-feely deity but rather that of a God of Wrath and vengeance as well, then go on in the next sentence to say God is a god of grace and mercy and love and kindness and happiness in the same sentence.

My best days when I got into Christianity was right at the start. Everything was alive God angels what not. I had a collection in a small booklet I had handmade chock-full of versus my Bible was highlighted to and fro throughout the pages of things that had struck me and had impacted in my early Christian life. There was Brotherhood and Sisterhood, many good times and memories at the coffee house pointing out verses and talking about him. For me it was living and true Christianity. Unfortunately there comes a point where you look Beyond what could be referred to as beginners mind and the things that you originally ignored and put on the side now come out of the woodwork to such an extent they could not be ignored.

What is the question?

"Why do Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal God of the Old Testament?"

I gave you the answer based on my belief that is in the bible.

Name calling according to Merriam-Webster: the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts.

But anyway do you agree that death is God’s will?

God is considered a psychopathic being according to standards set for diagnosis through Medical journals.

It's not name-calling, it's a fact.
If anything, God needs some serious help there. I definitely would consider God a Madman (although I do wonder about the guy who first wrote about God) or Mad-deity to be more accurate. The bugger is just plain evil and twisted.

As far as death goes, it's a fluid and dynamic phenomena. Molecules form, molecules break apart, molecules form again. It's not will that's for sure, as we are basically a product of chemistry and physics that works wonderfully well when certain conditions are present.

 

[Neb]

As far as death goes, it's a fluid and dynamic phenomena. Molecules form, molecules break apart, molecules form again. It's not will that's for sure, as we are basically a product of chemistry and physics that works wonderfully well when certain conditions are present.

So your best argument is from molecule to man

 

[Twilight Hue]

So your best argument is from molecule to man

Yes. It's fact. Not an argument.

 

[Neb]

Yes. It's fact. Not an argument.

Please enlighten me, how did it start?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Do you nuke Nagasaki in WWII or not?

Why not shoot the planes down? It's not the infant in Nagasaki harming the US, but the pilots.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Please enlighten me, how did it start?

For you and me specifically?

It no doubt started with the glint of fire in your father's and mum's eyes.

 

[Neb]

For you and me specifically?

It no doubt started with the glint of fire in your father's and mum's eyes.

No! You need to focus on the question. What I meant is from molecule to man, how life began from non-life to life?

 

[1213]

Okay, then very simply, demonstrate a "soul" to me. You know, something "living" that has no body. Just one single one that you can personally put on evidence will do.

Just one. A mere single soul out of all the 100 billion people who have ever lived or are still living -- show me that non-corporeal "soul" and I will believe. You have my word.

Sorry, I don’t know how to show non-corporeal thing to corporeal person.

Luckily it is not necessary that you believe it.

 

[Kenny]

Why not shoot the planes down? It's not the infant in Nagasaki harming the US, but the pilots.

You mean, "Why not let the Japanesse continue their processes like unto the rape of Nanking continue for years, the killing of babies, the torturing of innocent, the destruction of many innocent people?"

You see, if you were God, I would call you cruel, uncaring, unjust and all the other adjectives that have been used.

 

[Kenny]

Okay, then very simply, demonstrate a "soul" to me. You know, something "living" that has no body. Just one single one that you can personally put on evidence will do.

Just one. A mere single soul out of all the 100 billion people who have ever lived or are still living -- show me that non-corporeal "soul" and I will believe. You have my word.

@1213

Of course, as long as you don't include the countless people who, when doctors have said they were dead, saw what was happening from above their body.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No! You need to focus on the question. What I meant is from molecule to man, how life began from non-life to life?

Okay I'll get a little bit more serious about it. The honest answer is nobody knows yet. But there's excellent fact-based theories that has gotten us substantially closer to answering the questions. I wouldn't be surprised to see the answer for the start of like to be solved this century.

We have LUCA in astrobiology.

How Did Life Start On Earth? | Las Cumbres Observatory

More on par would be here in explaining the relationships that are involved with organic and inorganic molecules that bring about metabolism necessary for life. You can't have life without organic molecules, and you can't have life without inorganic.


https://phys.org/news/2015-03-chemists-riddle-life-began-earth.html


Last there are biological viruses which meets both the definition of non life and life. In my opinion, it's the best study to understand the connection involved with understanding the relationships concerning non-life and life.

The difference between life and non life

 

[Twilight Hue]

Okay I'll get a little bit more serious about it. The honest answer is nobody knows yet. But there's excellent fact-based theories that has gotten us substantially closer to answering the questions. I wouldn't be surprised to see the answer for the start of like to be solved this century.

We have LUCA in astrobiology.

How Did Life Start On Earth? | Las Cumbres Observatory

More on par would be here in explaining the relationships that are involved with organic and inorganic molecules that bring about metabolism necessary for life. You can't have life without organic molecules, and you can't have life without inorganic.


https://phys.org/news/2015-03-chemists-riddle-life-began-earth.html


Last there are biological viruses which meets both the definition of non life and life. In my opinion, it's the best study to understand the connection involved with understanding the relationships concerning non-life and life.

The difference between life and non life

I'll stop here with this because the subject I want to talk about is why Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal god of the Old Testament.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sorry, I don’t know how to show non-corporeal thing to corporeal person.

Luckily it is not necessary that you believe it.

But if that is the case, then you are also unable to say that you "know" that non-corporeal things actually exist. You just assume it. Because, of course, you are yourself just a corporeal person.

 

[james dixon]

I don't believe there is such a huge difference. The message is the same. Jesus said the whole of the Law and prophets hang on two commandments. Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. This hasn't changed..,.,.,.,,,,

The Jews chose to call their new found country "Israel" because they wanted to connect their country with the Biblical context of the man named "Israel" who before was named Jacob.
King James Bible
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

Having directly connected their new nation to the Biblical context by calling their new nation Israel they then must comply with that narrative.

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strange in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

After the Lord gave His children the above very specific instructions; today in the name of "Israel" you find this---

 

[james dixon]

I don't believe there is such a huge difference. The message is the same. Jesus said the whole of the Law and prophets hang on two commandments. Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. This hasn't changed..,.,.,.,,,,

12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
Thu., October 28, 2004
IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head by Israeli fire while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary
Girl's School On June 1 this year two ten-year old children in UNRWA's
Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank
In March 2003

12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet fired Two 10 year-old schoolchildren were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.
Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room. (this was an assassination of specific children by the IDF)
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk

Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die
September 8, 2003
The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm

Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
28 July 2003

She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
'Mother, mother'. Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other.
e was still in my arms and she died."
'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'

This boy was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.
Tuesday December 23, 2003
Israel Army action breeds fresh hatred

Israel Baby is born then dies
September 11, 2003
Birth and death at the checkpoint
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html

Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy
Siege off Nablus
January, 2004

15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house. The sniper bulet hit Amjad in the back. He died on his way to the hospital. The second is Amer Kathym Arafat who was also shot in the back by a sniper bullet. The third is Rouhi Hazem Shouman, 25, who was also shot in the back by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

15 year old boy & Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all shot in the back by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk

IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
Tue., October 05, 2004
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."
http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/children.html
http://tinyurl.com/8rmn2g3


Now after reviewing the above do you believe the Israelis’ are living up to God’s expectations of them?

If you were in God’s shoes, what would you do?​

I must ask this, if you were the father of the eight year old girl who had been assassinated by the IDF; would this compel you to strap a bomb to yourself and then run into a group of IDF soldiers and blow them and yourself to pieces?

just asking -

 

[74x12]

Now after reviewing the above do you believe the Israelis’ are living up to God’s expectations of them?

If you were in God’s shoes, what would you do?​

I must ask this, if you were the father of the eight year old girl who had been assassinated by the IDF; would this compel you to strap a bomb to yourself and then run into a group of IDF soldiers and blow them and yourself to pieces?

just asking -

Not sure the relevance to what I said. I don't necessarily condone actions of the Israeli government or military at all. This is the new Covenant as far as I'm concerned. There are better ways of dealing with these controversies. A lot can be said against both sides. I cannot speak for God on these matters but I know all human lives are precious to God. It's a delicate situation over there though. It's really complicated and there are unseen forces in play.