Why do descriptions of heaven seem highly materialistic?

[Saint Frankenstein]

If we go to another realm or type of being besides this one, I am sure there will be some type psycho-spiritual sexing going on

There better be or I'll feel cheated. Some people have claimed to have sexual encounters with spiritual beings.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't buy into any of that anti-sex nonsense. Sexual energy is the power of creation. Without sex, none of us would exist. In sex, we give and we take, we share ourselves with each other and give and take pleasure. Sex is also very healthy and can heal psychological and spiritual wounds. Sex is certainly divine. My Gods are very sexual and lusty.

I laugh at those statements, seriously.

Sex is the power of creation which is true and good but sex is only dignified if only used for that purpose or perhaps saving a person with one's schlong or taco(if that is even possible).

Sex by itself does not qualify it to be beneficial even though it can be. I seriously cannot place my trust in other people for this very reason as sex seems to rule so many people's emotions.

 

[Sha'irullah]

In the desert the pleasures and goods seem divine after a while It's never been a mystery to me how the land and culture get infused with traditions...only with religions that have a universal monotheistic being with transcendent mind and being does the strangeness of it come through.

I always forget ab out this. Religion becomes so dominant in societies where life is harsh as it provides an emotional release.

Fire, torment and brimstone is the nature of the desert and obviously nobody wants this for eternity. I can now see why heaven become so important.

Europe and else where traditions are much more fond of the earth itself. In the Near/Middle East you have celestial and social aspect deities.

You did not mention the fact that Middle Eastern cults loved phallus and vaginal worship

 

[Sha'irullah]

Sex is Much more heavenly then harps. LOL!




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:sarcastic Seriously? Have you even heard harp music?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not sure if this really matters to those who believe in a type of heaven, but this is something that bothers me. It seems to me that religions that teach one not to be attached to the world or worldly possessions, has some of the most worldly descriptions of heaven. This seems to present a sort of paradox: if one is not to be materialistic as part of one's virtue, then how does it equate to being so in a paradise-like existence? How can these two seemingly contradictory ideas be reconciled?

IMO, not only are conventional depictions of Heaven materialistic like you point out, they're also exceedingly selfish. The person in Heaven is apparently not supposed to mind (or at least, not mind enough to ruin the experience of Heaven) that their brothers and sisters are suffering in Hell.

It's occurred to me before that if the Bible really was true, it would make much more sense for it to be a test: that the path to an eternity of selfish materialistic comfort is the "broad way" that leads to Hell that Jesus talked about.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I laugh at those statements, seriously.

Sex is the power of creation which is true and good but sex is only dignified if only used for that purpose or perhaps saving a person with one's schlong or taco(if that is even possible).

Sex by itself does not qualify it to be beneficial even though it can be. I seriously cannot place my trust in other people for this very reason as sex seems to rule so many people's emotions.

Your anti-sex mindset is your issue, not mine. It's not healthy.

 

[Ingledsva]

I laugh at those statements, seriously.

Sex is the power of creation which is true and good but sex is only dignified if only used for that purpose or perhaps saving a person with one's schlong or taco(if that is even possible).

Sex by itself does not qualify it to be beneficial even though it can be. I seriously cannot place my trust in other people for this very reason as sex seems to rule so many people's emotions.

I think you have had too many years of religious tradition saying sex is evil, or of the earth - and we need to transcend all "human" emotions, and things.


That is just the self-hating dogma of some religions. The ones that teach earth and everything on her is carnal and bad - BUT - just wait tell you get to heaven, or transcend, or.....


I don't believe it at all.


Sex is good, - and obviously it can also be used for bad.



Sex itself is not Bad, or evil, or something that needs to be overcome. I don't understand the sexless Monk mentality.



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[Sees]

There better be or I'll feel cheated. Some people have claimed to have sexual encounters with spiritual beings.

I have spiritual encounters with sexual beings

There is a big gulf between some traditions seeing our realm/dimension as a more physical/solid type that reflects others which are more psycho-spiritual/astral/vudu yada yada...and those that consider this earthly life as very impure and our bodies as filthy rags or low-level animal baseness....or some such.

My camp is obvious with the earthy, natural way where holistic view reigns supreme. Physical stuffs are beautiful and equally of divine essence as immaterial/psycho-spiritual/whatever.

How we treasure and treat this world, life, etc. reflects which ideology is popular or pervasive.

In the Euro-Pagan traditions the other or higher realms are idealized as continuing similar joys and family relationship as this life but not as much stuff we couldn't have or strive for in this life. Psychologically it makes more sense for a healthier being here with a better society and planet.

Of course it is also tied to how much freedoms and independence are valued. In more submissive traditions the after-life is your chance to be a wealthy king but for now you be a good little slave and simply pray.....

 

[Sees]

I always forget ab out this. Religion becomes so dominant in societies where life is harsh as it provides an emotional release.

Fire, torment and brimstone is the nature of the desert and obviously nobody wants this for eternity. I can now see why heaven become so important.



You did not mention the fact that Middle Eastern cults loved phallus and vaginal worship

My knowledge of pre-Abrahamic Middle Eastern traditions is pretty dang limited I am surprised I never came across such a wonderful thing. When I studied it, lightly, is back when I studied Islam heavily and that was 10 years ago and earlier.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Your anti-sex mindset is your issue, not mine. It's not healthy.

Never claimed I was against sex, I just said I do not understand it's appeal. I am a fair person though and do not judge others........openly

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have spiritual encounters with sexual beings

There is a big gulf between some traditions seeing our realm/dimension as a more physical/solid type that reflects others which are more psycho-spiritual/astral/vudu yada yada...and those that consider this earthly life as very impure and our bodies as filthy rags or low-level animal baseness....or some such.

My camp is obvious with the earthy, natural way where holistic view reigns supreme. Physical stuffs are beautiful and equally of divine essence as immaterial/psycho-spiritual/whatever.

How we treasure and treat this world, life, etc. reflects which ideology is popular or pervasive.

In the Euro-Pagan traditions the other or higher realms are idealized as continuing similar joys and family relationship as this life but not as much stuff we couldn't have or strive for in this life. Psychologically it makes more sense for a healthier being here with a better society and planet.

Of course it is also tied to how much freedoms and independence are valued. In more submissive traditions the after-life is your chance to be a wealthy king but for now you be a good little slave and simply pray.....

I'm totally with you on this! I'll have to frubal this when I can.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I think you have had too many years of religious tradition saying sex is evil, or of the earth - and we need to transcend all "human" emotions, and things.

My opinions do not come from religion, I am asexual which is not a choice.

That is just the self-hating dogma of some religions. The ones that teach earth and everything on her is carnal and bad - BUT - just wait tell you get to heaven, or transcend, or.....


I don't believe it at all.

Carnal is good, I find great happiness in carnal desires, primarily books and technology. I am not interested in religious teachings yet alone nature based ones

Sex is good, - and obviously it can also be used for bad.

Sex is mundane and unappealing but this is just me speaking. I myself like to mock people who like sex as I have no use for it except for making perverted jokes.

Sex itself is not Bad, or evil, or something that needs to be overcome. I don't understand the sexless Monk mentality.

Overcome? Why would a person overcome something they like? Having sex motivate 99% of your actions is one thing but liking sex is another.

The chaste monk mentality is something born out of fear and stupidity of something perfectly normal. Sex is also a good way to control people whether it be in excessive or restriction of sexuality.

 

[Sha'irullah]

My knowledge of pre-Abrahamic Middle Eastern traditions is pretty dang limited I am surprised I never came across such a wonderful thing. When I studied it, lightly, is back when I studied Islam heavily and that was 10 years ago and earlier.

Semitic religions contain quite a bit of the Hindu theology actually except they are very fatalistic in approach.

Babylonian, Sumerian, Mesopotamian, Arabic or even Judaic paganism all have a very fatalistic outlook on life and the concept of hell can be found in these religions. Mesopotamian and Arabic ones actually promote the idea that the afterlife is eternal hell. Irkalla is a place of doom and the inhabitants can face judgement in temporary or eternal forms. There is a reason why all of these religions faded away and it is because humans feared death at this period of life. Semitic mythologies are all very gloomy to begin with but it is the main reason I love them since I am a gloomy dude.

Pessimism is the way to go

 

[Vouthon]

In terms of this "sex" and otherworldliness offshoot in this discussion, I did find something interesting when reading the Talmud in recent months (and this time I am not going to be lazy but actually quote directly from the Talmud and link to the section ):

"...three things give a foretaste of the world to come: Sabbath, sunlight, and Tashmish (sexual intercourse)..."

- Babylonian Talmud (Berakoth 57b)

http://www.come-and-hear.com/berakoth/berakoth_57.html

Now please do correct me if I am interpreting this wrong (I am not Jewish nor a scholar) but it seems to be suggesting that sex, along with the Sabbath day and the light of the sun, is a pleasurable physical 'foretaste' of the next world.

I think that this can be a good way to consider sex. The orgasm is one of, if not thee most, powerful of human sensual pleasures. For the brief period of an orgasm, ordinary human thinking is disrupted.

Hence why, mystics in various religions have often used erotic imagery to explain their spiritual experiences. The orgasm is the best physical analogue to purely spiritual rapture.

I find the concept of two people pleasuring each other, kissing, embracing and enjoying each other's bodies to be one of nature's most beautiful marvels.

If a lover has the attitude, "all for you and nothing for me" then sexual love ascends to an almost divinised degree, capable of fostering not only spiritual growth but even detachment from selfish desire; in truth it also can bring a person into union with God.

Sexual desire, according to Catholicism, is a natural good. However when sex is sought for sefish reasons and not out of a desire to express one's love for another human being, then it becomes inordinate and a hindrance to a person's spiritual progress. It becomes bereft of love. As one of the Catholic mystics explained:

"...Love consists not in feeling great things but in having great detachment [from oneself] and in suffering for the Beloved...All for you and nothing for me..."

- Saint John of the Cross (1542 – 1591), Catholic mystic

Sex cannot provide permanent happiness. It is a short-term pleasure. The pursuit of it once, leads to the craving to have it again and again. Attachments to things create suffering, there spiritual progress demands freedom from attachments.

Attachment to sexual pleasure can become addictive and strong. The senses need to be tamed so as to be free.

If one is attached to sex, becomes dependant on that pleasure, longs for it continually and relies on it to be happy, then one is a slave of sex and so is not and cannot be truly happy.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

:sarcastic Seriously? Have you even heard harp music?

Um, have you ever had sex? Sort of no contest, in my estimation. Reminds me of a (hilarious) quote from the novel Choke:

"I mean, what could ever be better than sex?

For sure, even the worst blow job is better than, say, sniffing the best rose... watching the greatest sunset. Hearing children laugh.

I think that I shall never see a poem as lovely as a hot-gushing, butt-cramping, gut-hosing orgasm.

Painting a picture, composing an opera, that's just something you do until you find the next willing piece of ***.

The minute something better than sex comes along, you call me. Have me paged."

 

[Ingledsva]

:sarcastic Seriously? Have you even heard harp music?

Yes I have, and I like it - But - it doesn't even compare to love, sex, and orgasms.


And by the way - I was making a funny - with reality - and the heavenly harp Christian cartoons.





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[Sha'irullah]

Um, have you ever had sex? Sort of no contest, in my estimation. Reminds me of a (hilarious) quote from the novel Choke:

Well it is not a matter of having sex it is a matter of desiring it. I do not even like to masturbate so you can imagine my opinions on sex .

"I mean, what could ever be better than sex?

For sure, even the worst blow job is better than, say, sniffing the best rose... watching the greatest sunset. Hearing children laugh.

I think that I shall never see a poem as lovely as a hot-gushing, butt-cramping, gut-hosing orgasm.

You are just trying to convince me that sex is awful .

Painting a picture, composing an opera, that's just something you do until you find the next willing piece of ***.

Nope, those are the things best down when you do not wish to find a piece of *unspeakable word*.

The minute something better than sex comes along, you call me. Have me paged."

Video games, modifying INI files, reading, writing, practicing Arabic, and going to my local cinema.

My hands are always free

 

[Sha'irullah]

Yes I have, and I like it - But - it doesn't even compare to love, sex, and orgasms.


And by the way - I was making a funny - with reality - and the heavenly harp Christian cartoons.
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I know you were being goofy. I am just saying that harp music is far better than sex and Beethoven's 5th symphony in C minor is even greater :clap

 

[Ingledsva]

I know you were being goofy. I am just saying that harp music is far better than sex and Beethoven's 5th symphony in C minor is even greater :clap

Perhaps for someone that is Asexual, but not for the majority of the rest of us.


I like Beethoven as well, however...



Sex and Bolero!


Flight of the Bumblebee need not apply. LOL! At least not during sex.



*

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Perhaps for someone that is Asexual, but not for the majority of the rest of us.


I like Beethoven as well, however...

Exactly. Beethoven is great and all, but we're talking about sex here (sorry Ludwig).