No we have establish you don't. Evolution only works on offspring.
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Why do Evolutionists not like to actually debate Evolution and rely on personal attacks?
- Thread starter Shermana
- Start date
No we have establish you don't. Evolution only works on offspring.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Not on all of them, apparently.
Daddy?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
That's a wrong description of evolution.
According to evolution theory children would not evolve into x, y, or z just because you think, or we think that it would be better.
Evolution is about very small changes, and each change is slightly more beneficial for reproduction and survival of individuals. If there's a low threshold and easy to survive, you will have a larger number of variations, but under selective pressures (there is a handful of different kinds), those with better mutations just will have a better chance.
What you were suggesting above is directional evolution which would require someone supervising and controlling the mutations and selections (like artificial selection). But that's not natural selection at all.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
That bacteria did not exist until they evolved to eat human designed plastics. The plastic eating bacteria is not fruit flies. I hope you know the difference between bacteria and flies.
There's another example. Genetic modified grains are used because they were modified to fight of pests and certain bugs. Unfortunately, only 10-15 years later, already there are new bugs that eat this modified grains. It's impossible that they existed before because the genetic modification was done on purpose to fight these bugs, and suddenly there are bugs that can eat the grains, within a decade. Luckily (for Monsanto), these bugs have only evolved in a few areas in the world and not around plantations that have made sure there is a large enough buffer to prevent selective pressure for new variations.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
They always do.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Most of the time, in common venacular a "Creationist" believe in special creation, i.e. God creating each and individual species in the past to be exactly what they are now. So if you look at a horse, that's how the horse was created and nothing else, but unfortunately, the fossil record can show the evolution of the horse. Anyway, in a loose definition, I can see how a "creationist" can include anyone who is a "theistic evolutionist" or "intelligent designist." God creating the species by using evolutionary process. The evidence of evolution is very clear. A person can always consider that a divine controller is steering evolution is a certain direction and call that "creationism", of course. But still, evolution is evident and clear.
I was a Christian and creationist until 2004. For 30 years I was a hardcore Christian. I went on mission trips and walked city streets with a Bible in my hands. In 2004, I lost my faith (of various reasons), and I learned more about how evolution really works. It's about being honest to oneself and really study the facts and understand that arguments in depth. But... few years ago I took a couple of physical/biological anthropology classes and labs. It was mind-blowing. I didn't know how much evidence and solid foundation there was for evolutionary theory. To deny it is to deny 10 (or more) different sciences, even math. There are books written just about the math underlying evolutionary theory. We had to learn a few formulas, but in general, it's about processes and understanding that change really is change. DNA does change, and some of those changes leave traces. There are genetic evidence for evolution, and evidence in the fossil bones, you just have to learn how to read the bones and what different things mean.
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Just answer the question for goodness sake. According to you does evolution only work on offspring?
I know it does. It can only work on offspring.Am I wrong?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
No.
It works on parents and offspring. Depends on what you mean with "evolution works on..."
I know bacteria and fruit flies are not the same but you NEED to believe I do. You are arguing the point of the OP and nobody is making you do it.
Sigh. A genetic change is passed on to ONLY the offspring in which the change has occurred (in the parent). :sleep:
We need to believe you know the difference between a bacteria and a fruit fly?
Is that what you are saying?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
??? Can you explain?
What do I need to believe you do? I need to believe that you do know the difference? Ok. Sure. I believe you do.
And I'm arguing the point of the OP? Not sure if I do. I do know that evolutionists can be ******** in discussions. I am sometimes too because its' too tiring to explain all the details of the science. There's a lot to grasp and sometimes when the other party express extremely poor understanding of the science, it's annoying and vexing.
I also know that Creationists, Intelligent "designists", theists, and many other can be extremely a-holish too. It goes both ways. Everyone can be jerks in the debate, mostly because all of us tend to feel misunderstood (even the theists, creationists, etc). We all get frustrated.
Sometimes I try to engage in a discussion and bring up some points, but I've noticed my posts go unnoticed and unchallenged. So it's very boring... but if I'm rude and call someone a name, they engage immediately. Flame wars are more successful for online debates than serious discussions. That's how net-humans work.
We need to believe you know the difference between a bacteria and a fruit fly?
Is that what you are saying?
OK
No. You said I did not understand evolution because I mentioned fruit flies with bacteria. Haha Stupid me.
The funny thing is you all say your evidence of one species changing into another is bacteria. The last time I checked bacteria is mostly one species. The only one who care that two bacteria that look and act the same are actually two different species is you maybe, to prove your point, and National Geographic.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Here's a novel idea. Try cracking open up an actual book or two on evolutionary theory and reading them. Then, maybe you won't need to come here and ask dumb questions.
I hear it is because you have made your point well.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
I can also happen during gestation.
Some changes are turned on and off during the development of the being as well. (Don't remember the name for it). Basically, some of the gene controls the process of development during gestation (hox genes?), and there are many things that can go wrong, but mostly it doesn't. When it does and it's successful, good times. When it does and it's just neutral, it stays for future generations. And so on.
And what was that sleep smiley for?
Stop it. Come back tomorrow and read your contribution, or don't. I don't care.
You mean who is it for. Not you. You are doing well to prove the OP wrong. The one putting to me sleep is proving the OP right. Like they're on the same team.