Why do Gentiles assume they should follow the ten commandments?

[Harmonious]

The halakhic condom – a solution for Orthodox women?

Orthodox women who are “halakhically infertile” cannot conceive because they adhere to Jewish laws about when they can and can’t have sex with their husbands.

These women abstain from sex for five days during their periods and then another seven additional days, after which they visit a mikveh, or ritual bath, and rejoin their husbands. Most Orthodox women have no trouble getting pregnant with these restrictions—as evidenced by the high Orthodox fertility rates.

But for women with shorter cycles, ovulation occurs before they go to the mikveh, and they can’t conceive. Even though they’re technically healthy, Jewish law has rendered these women “halakhically infertile.”
...

For the record, women who have shorter cycles can get a Heter (permission) to count fewer than the standard five days, if their issue is less than five days.

The seven clean days is a must.

The goal of the timing of the laws of Nidda is to make sure sexual relations happen when the wife is at her most fertile.

If someone says otherwise, they are mistaken.

 

[roberto]

For the record, women who have shorter cycles can get a Heter (permission) to count fewer than the standard five days, if their issue is less than five days.

The seven clean days is a must.

The goal of the timing of the laws of Nidda is to make sure sexual relations happen when the wife is at her most fertile.

If someone says otherwise, they are mistaken.

Ya well , and we Goi should believe you ,....with a Major newspaper in Israel lying to "Jews" in Israel . Wow !

 

[Harmonious]

Ya well , and we Goi should believe you ,....with a Major newspaper in Israel lying to "Jews" in Israel . Wow !

Major newspapers are not written by Torah scholars or by Rabbanim who know the Halacha better than people, including non-Jews, who are ignorant of the intimate details of this branch of Jewish law.

 

[roberto]

Major newspapers are not written by Torah scholars or by Rabbanim who know the Halacha better than people, including non-Jews, who are ignorant of the intimate details of this branch of Jewish law.

This newspaper is written by Jews for Jews ... not goi.
Yeh, one can fool most of the people most of time but not all of the people all of the time.

 

[Harmonious]

This newspaper is written by Jews for Jews ... not goi.
Yeh, one can fool most of the people most of time but not all of the people all of the time.

Not all Jews are religious. Not all Jews FOLLOW Torah law. Not all Jews are religiously educated.

And I've seen your news source get details of Jewish law wrong before.

 

[Harmonious]

Having read the article, I get it.

You know, not all Orthodox Jews follow the position being described.

As a matter of fact, I was taught by my Taharat Mishpacha teacher that there are exemptions that can be had if necessary.

In the community discussed in the article, the community is stricter than normal Orthodox. Further, the story talks about a physical solution that community made.

You have selective reading comprehension. You took an extreme position (you can usually count anything under the title "ultra-Orthodox" in an Israeli newspaper as extreme and not necessarily indicative of normative for "regular Orthodox" Jews) and applied it to every situation.

Maybe it IS because you're an ignorant non-Jew who is more focused on finding examples of Jews being hypocritical. Or maybe your reasoning is less flattering to yourself.

I would take the word over someone who lives by the Law than take stock in a newspaper article I barely understood.

But that's just me.

 

[Harmonious]

For the record, women who have shorter cycles can get a Heter (permission) to count fewer than the standard five days, if their issue is less than five days.

The seven clean days is a must.

The goal of the timing of the laws of Nidda is to make sure sexual relations happen when the wife is at her most fertile.

If someone says otherwise, they are mistaken.

I stand by what I said in this earlier post.

 

[waitasec]

so a women is clean when she is most fertile?

 

[Harmonious]

so a women is clean when she is most fertile?

Usually. It depends on her preparations.

 

[waitasec]

Usually. It depends on her preparations.

to me, this implies the only purpose for women to be approached is to have babies.

i find that... interesting, to say the least.

 

[Nakosis]

so a women is clean when she is most fertile?

Really? Like people have problems making babies?

It's not so hard to come up with an explanation for justifying some law in the Bible. If people want to follow them fine. No reason to think God had anything to do with them.

Who knows really the original thinking behind these religious laws? That we can think up an explanation doesn't make the law any more legitimate. However it gives people the sense of doing the right thing, whether "right" has anything to do with it or not.

There's not really any more rightness here with religious idealism then not, but it gives people the perception of rightness. It they are happy with that perception great. As long as they don't expect anyone else to respect that perception of rightness.

 

[Harmonious]

to me, this implies the only purpose for women to be approached is to have babies.

i find that... interesting, to say the least.

This is silly.

The concept of "clean" and "unclean" are not precisely that, and they are woefully inadequate translations.

Tahor, the word usually translated as "clean" or "pure" is more accurately translated as "state in which things are permitted." The word Tam'ei, the word usually translated as "unclean" or "unpure" is more accurately translated is "state in which things are forbidden."

These words cover a wide range of items, places, and activities. Most of them involve fitness for attending the Temple in Jerusalem, including clothes, cups and other vessels, and animals.

Since the destruction of the Temple, the two primary issues involving Tum'a and Tahara center around contact with dead bodies and other funerary items, locations, and functions, and the permissability of a husband to his wife physically.

When you asked me if a woman is only clean when she is most fertile, I immediately ignored all the other implications of the word, thinking them irrelevant for immediate discussion, and only focused on the wife's permissibility to her husband.

With that in mind, yes, a woman is permissible to her husband in sexual situations when she is most fertile, provided that she has made the appropriate preparations, i.e. going to the Mikva, etc.

If you were asking about a woman being Tahor in other circumstances, I would have to ask you about what purpose you were inquiring about, as purpose and circumstance might affect the answer you get.

 

[Harmonious]

And women who are pregnant or menopausal, whose fertility is not currently or no longer an issue, may also be Tahor, or permitted to their husbands.

 

[Harmonious]

Really? Like people have problems making babies?

It's not so hard to come up with an explanation for justifying some law in the Bible. If people want to follow them fine. No reason to think God had anything to do with them.

Who knows really the original thinking behind these religious laws? That we can think up an explanation doesn't make the law any more legitimate. However it gives people the sense of doing the right thing, whether "right" has anything to do with it or not.

There's not really any more rightness here with religious idealism then not, but it gives people the perception of rightness. It they are happy with that perception great. As long as they don't expect anyone else to respect that perception of rightness.

No one is asking non-Jews to convert to Judaism, Nakosis.

If you aren't Jewish, these laws wouldn't apply to you.

 

[Nakosis]

No one is asking non-Jews to convert to Judaism, Nakosis.

If you aren't Jewish, these laws wouldn't apply to you.

Sure as should be the case with all religious laws. People should be able to freely follow whatever laws they choose as long as it doesn't interfere with civil laws.

However that doesn't mean anyone need except the explanation provided for these laws.

Don't even know why a person would need an explanation unless they feel a need to justify their religion to themselves.

 

[Harmonious]

Sure as should be the case with all religious laws. People should be able to freely follow whatever laws they choose as long as it doesn't interfere with civil laws.

However that doesn't mean anyone need except the explanation provided for these laws.

Don't even know why a person would need an explanation unless they feel a need to justify their religion to themselves.

We describe it so people can better understand the belief system. No one suggests that people outside the belief system change their minds.

But people of the belief system mostly DO believe that these commandments are God-given. I do.

There might be other Jews who don't share my belief in the divine origin of Torah law, but at least that is one thing Orthodox Jews tend to agree on.

 

[Nakosis]

We describe it so people can better understand the belief system. No one suggests that people outside the belief system change their minds.

But people of the belief system mostly DO believe that these commandments are God-given. I do.

There might be other Jews who don't share my belief in the divine origin of Torah law, but at least that is one thing Orthodox Jews tend to agree on.

Yes but that is kind of the point. If you believe they are God-given do you really need to justify them? Certainly not to me.

The real reason you follow the laws is because you believe God commanded it. Do you really have to justify it to every Tom, Dick or Harry that comes along?

However you want to rationalize it, just why have any expectation that a non-Jew is going to accept that rationalization?

I'm not really trying to be critical. It's what everyone does, try to rationalize their beliefs to others. Rationalize our beliefs to ourselves. Seems irrational behavior though. To justify a belief in an idea that can't be empirically supported.

 

[Harmonious]

Yes but that is kind of the point. If you believe they are God-given do you really need to justify them? Certainly not to me.

The real reason you follow the laws is because you believe God commanded it. Do you really have to justify it to every Tom, Dick or Harry that comes along?

It's not a matter of justifying it to every Tom, Dick, or Harry. It is a matter of someone asked a question (not very nicely, but nonetheless), and I like to provide an honest answer.

I wouldn't have answered Roberto at all, except that I thought that someone who was following along might have been curious about the answer to the question he asked.

Waitasec's question was a fair one, though. I think.

I assumed it was honestly asked, and so it was honestly answered.

However you want to rationalize it, just why have any expectation that a non-Jew is going to accept that rationalization?

As I said, it is a matter of, "The question was asked, and so I answered." Otherwise, Taharat Mishpacha, or the laws regarding sex and other marital issues, are not usually the choice of topic I would openly broach with non-Jews.

Heck, I wouldn't generally openly broach the topic with Jews who are not engaged, married, or are otherwise truly interested in learning.

And again, my goal was not to rationalize anything, but to explain the answer to the question asked, how ever disrespectfully the question was asked at the time.

I'm not really trying to be critical. It's what everyone does, try to rationalize their beliefs to others. Rationalize our beliefs to ourselves. Seems irrational behavior though. To justify a belief in an idea that can't be empirically supported.

There is no empirical evidence to support a belief unless you witnessed and photographed a miracle. And even then, not everyone would believe it.

 

[waitasec]

This is silly.

The concept of "clean" and "unclean" are not precisely that, and they are woefully inadequate translations.

Tahor, the word usually translated as "clean" or "pure" is more accurately translated as "state in which things are permitted." The word Tam'ei, the word usually translated as "unclean" or "unpure" is more accurately translated is "state in which things are forbidden."

These words cover a wide range of items, places, and activities. Most of them involve fitness for attending the Temple in Jerusalem, including clothes, cups and other vessels, and animals.

Since the destruction of the Temple, the two primary issues involving Tum'a and Tahara center around contact with dead bodies and other furerary items, locations, and functions, and the permissability of a husband to his wife physically.

When you asked me if a woman is only clean when she is most fertile, I immediately ignored all the other implications of the word, thinking them irrelevant for immediate discussion, and only focused on the wife's permissibility to her husband.

With that in mind, yes, a woman is permissible to her husband in sexual situations when she is most fertile, provided that she has made the appropriate preparations, i.e. going to the Mikva, etc.

If you were asking about a woman being Tahor in other circumstances, I would have to ask you about what purpose you were inquiring about, as purpose and circumstance might affect the answer you get.

so the state in order to be permitted to be approached is when a woman is fertile?

how then does gods laws answer to this:

3. Have more sex not less: Men with low sperm counts are often advised to abstain from sex in order to improve their sperm count, but new research suggests that while this may improve sperm count, too much abstinence can damage the DNA of the sperm that is produced. Australian researchers have found that having daily sex actually improves the quality, if not the quantity of sperm. The thought behind this is that regular ejaculations get rid of the old sperm and make way for newer healthier sperm.

Sperm 411: 7 Little Known Things That Can Affect Sperm

BBC NEWS | Health | Daily sex 'best for good sperm'

wouldn't god already know this little tid bit about human reproduction?

or was it really the icky factor that played into a misogynistic society that considered women unapproachable when on the rag?

 

[Harmonious]

so the state in order to be permitted to be approached is when a woman is fertile?

Approached how? And by whom?

how then does gods laws answer to this:

3. Have more sex not less: Men with low sperm counts are often advised to abstain from sex in order to improve their sperm count, but new research suggests that while this may improve sperm count, too much abstinence can damage the DNA of the sperm that is produced. Australian researchers have found that having daily sex actually improves the quality, if not the quantity of sperm. The thought behind this is that regular ejaculations get rid of the old sperm and make way for newer healthier sperm.

Sperm 411: 7 Little Known Things That Can Affect Sperm

BBC NEWS | Health | Daily sex 'best for good sperm'

wouldn't god already know this little tid bit about human reproduction?

I'm sure He did.

During the times that a husband and wife are permitted to each other, lots of sex is encouraged. It's good to be discreet, but other than that...

The idea that making sex happen when would be good for a guy to enjoy, and a girl isn't feeling disgusting, slimy, and bloated...

I would imagine that PART of the idea is for both marriage partners to enjoy the experience.

or was it really the icky factor that played into a misogynistic society that considered women unapproachable when on the rag?

Or, perhaps, it took the woman's feelings into account.

Serious care is taken, in Jewish law, not to embarrass either men who cannot perform (ie. have crushed testicles, or something equally physically or emotionally painful), and not to embarrass women, whose bodies do weird things all the time.

Believe it or not, the rigidity of the law regarding a woman's "forbidden time" was constructed by women's practice, and became hardened into Jewish law as a custom that was adopted. The laws that discuss this in Leviticus involve fewer days of Tum'a during a regular flow, but women have held to the strictest situation mentioned (and it became Jewish law) in order to protect a woman's feelings when she might spot and show blood irregularly, and to lessen the emotional blow for someone whose body refuses to "be regular" with regularity.

But I'm not sure you are all that interested in how Jewish law develops, and customs that come about and how and why.