Why do God/s "hide" from disbelievers?

[Marcion]

God is still hidden to most life forms including more primitive humans because their consciousness has not yet expanded enough. You could say that spiritually undelevoped life forms are still spiritually asleep and caught up in the illusion that there is a dualism between their own subject and other objects.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What a strange thread: it seems to assume that, because there's no actual evidence of God (or gods), that there must, therefore, exist a God or gods that play hide-and-seek.

People like me go for a slightly more obvious conclusion...

 

[Spirit of Light]

What a strange thread: it seems to assume that, because there's no actual evidence of God (or gods), that there must, therefore, exist a God or gods that play hide-and-seek.

People like me go for a slightly more obvious conclusion...

A reason for the OP is Because mostly all religious people who believe in a God, has a form of connection with the God. Whereas non believers have no sense of a God at all. So why is it that God dont give you a hint? Or does God actually hint a lo5, but non believers dont pickup up on it?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

A reason for the OP is Because mostly all religious people who believe in a God, has a form of connection with the God.

Do they? Or do they just think that they do? I mean, a child with an invisible friend has "a form of connection." Does that make the invisible friend a reality, outside of the child's mind?

Whereas non believers have no sense of a God at all. So why is it that God dont give you a hint? Or does God actually hint a lo5, but non believers dont pickup up on it?

Look at your second two sentences above. Do you see what you are doing? You have already accepted that there is a god, and therefore you question what is wrong with the person who has no sense of it -- when in fact, if there were nothing to be sensed, not sensing it would seem to be the more reasonable.

All sorts of people imagine all sorts of things -- the mind is wonderfully adept at that. And they can imagine a lot of stuff that simply is not real.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe that California's wild fires were caused by a space laser? Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene does. If she has had some kind of "revelation" about this, why has it missed you? And do you think that most Democrats in government are pedophiles? Why not, when Qanon maintains this all over the internet, they believe it so strongly. Do you believe that you can travel outside your body? There are many people who do, and some of them are right here on RF. If you don't believe it, is it just because you've never tried, or never tried hard enough?

 

[Bird123]

Please assist me to understand your claims with clear answers to these questions ─

Do you know what thing or entity you intend to denote when you say "God"?

If so, does that thing or entity have objective existence ie exist other than as a concept / thing imagined?

If so, please describe it so I'll know what real thing I'm looking for.

If not, then what are we actually talking about except personal emotional states?

Yes, God actually exists other than a concept, idea or thing imagined.

To really Understand what one is about, one can study the actions of that individual. In this time-based causal universe God's actions can be seen. As you start to understand God's actions you will start to understand God.

Discover for yourself. If you are really good at it, you might just get a visit from God. You won't have to believe any more. You will know and have the proof for yourself.

One action of God we mentioned is God doesn't just give knowledge. One must struggle to acquire knowledge of every kind even knowledge about God. Can you see that in this world?

The rest I leave in your capable hands.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

Yes, God actually exists other than a concept, idea or thing imagined.

Then God is found as a distinct entity in nature.

Y'know, I have the strong impression the reason you haven't responded to the substance of my questions is that you have no more idea than I do what a real god looks like or where such a being can be found in reality.

And that only leaves conceptual / imaginary gods, which I can muster in any desired quantity for myself.

It'd be a pity if I'm right, so feel free to correct me.

Let's start with that objective test that will determine whether my keyboard is God or not.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But why challenging someone over and over to get them off track?

For debate purposes.
And if someone's beliefs are accurate / justified, surely they would be able to withstand challenges and criticism, right?

Reason i have reacted "negative " toward you from time to time is Because of your way of not taking an answer for what it is.

Because I have follow up questions or see additional problems with the answers.
This is a debate / discussion forum, so I'll discuss those points I don't agree with.

It seems like when a believer answer why they believe or give answer to a certain question. You do not accept their answer as their understanding of it. You keep pushing for answers they dont have.

Kind of hard to reply to this without specific examples.
But I imagine it concerns instances of where an answer is a total "non-answer", or where the answer is flawed somehow or in cases of where the answer actually raises even more questions then it answers...

As I previously said, I don't tend to back down. If and when I notice "problems" or "discussion points", I'll make it heard.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

A reason for the OP is Because mostly all religious people who believe in a God, has a form of connection with the God. Whereas non believers have no sense of a God at all. So why is it that God dont give you a hint? Or does God actually hint a lo5, but non believers dont pickup up on it?

What @Evangelicalhumanist is saying, is that the obvious answer is that there are no gods and those who think to have a "connection" with the god they happen to believe in (by geographic accident), is just delusional thinking.

What I find strange is how you don't seem to see a problem with the fact that 2 people from mutually exclusive religions can both claim to have a "connection" with their respective mutually exclusive gods.

They can't both be right. By definition. At least one of them has to be wrong.
And what that tells you, is that there are LOADS of precedents (like millions, if not billions of people) who must necessarily be mistaken / delusional about said claimed "connection" with their god.

So how can you honestly say and justify, that you aren't one of them?

You insinuate the gods play hide-and seek because the "unbelievers don't see/hear/feel them".
But has it ever occurred to you that maybe it is not the gods that play hide and seek, but rather the believers who are mistaken?

As a muslim who doesn't believe in literally thousands of religions out there... Surely you accept that at least SOME of them are delusional, right? Take scientologists for example? Scientology is about as incompatible with your religion as atheism itself is. Surely you don't believe scientology has a shred of truth in it.

Yet millions of believers are very serious about that religion. Tom Cruise is an "Operating Thetan". That would be the equivalent of having a "connection" with god.

So I'ld assume that you must believe that at least some people who claim such connections, must be delusional or mistaken.

That gives you a precedent. So you must accept that it is at least possible for people to be mistaken / delusional.

If you KNOW that being mistaken / delusional is an actual option.... why on earth would you assume that gods play hide and seek instead? Why not assume that it's not gods who play hide and seek...but rather humans being delusional or mistaken?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What @Evangelicalhumanist is saying, is that the obvious answer is that there are no gods and those who think to have a "connection" with the god they happen to believe in (by geographic accident), is just delusional thinking.

What I find strange is how you don't seem to see a problem with the fact that 2 people from mutually exclusive religions can both claim to have a "connection" with their respective mutually exclusive gods.

They can't both be right. By definition. At least one of them has to be wrong.
And what that tells you, is that there are LOADS of precedents (like millions, if not billions of people) who must necessarily be mistaken / delusional about said claimed "connection" with their god.

So how can you honestly say and justify, that you aren't one of them?

You insinuate the gods play hide-and seek because the "unbelievers don't see/hear/feel them".
But has it ever occurred to you that maybe it is not the gods that play hide and seek, but rather the believers who are mistaken?

As a muslim who doesn't believe in literally thousands of religions out there... Surely you accept that at least SOME of them are delusional, right? Take scientologists for example? Scientology is about as incompatible with your religion as atheism itself is. Surely you don't believe scientology has a shred of truth in it.

Yet millions of believers are very serious about that religion. Tom Cruise is an "Operating Thetan". That would be the equivalent of having a "connection" with god.

So I'ld assume that you must believe that at least some people who claim such connections, must be delusional or mistaken.

That gives you a precedent. So you must accept that it is at least possible for people to be mistaken / delusional.

If you KNOW that being mistaken / delusional is an actual option.... why on earth would you assume that gods play hide and seek instead? Why not assume that it's not gods who play hide and seek...but rather humans being delusional or mistaken?

I do only follow one teaching, but why should i ask others to not follothe teaching or God they understand?
Who am I to tell others their belief in a God or buddha is wrong? I used to think like that before, to make others believe like I did. But that is wrong practice.

The only one i can change is my pen being, my own understanding when i realize deeper understanding of the teachings. Then i see that on a deeper level, truth look different. But if a person does not see it og understand it. It only means we are not on same level of wisdom.
My teacher have guided me away from thinking i am correct in my views. Because i do not see the full truth in anything. Only part of it. So how can i say others are wrong?

I understand God in my own level of wisdom, others experience God on their level.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do only follow one teaching, but why should i ask others to not follothe teaching or God they understand?
Who am I to tell others their belief in a God or buddha is wrong? I used to think like that before, to make others believe like I did. But that is wrong practice.

The only one i can change is my pen being, my own understanding when i realize deeper understanding of the teachings. Then i see that on a deeper level, truth look different. But if a person does not see it og understand it. It only means we are not on same level of wisdom.
My teacher have guided me away from thinking i am correct in my views. Because i do not see the full truth in anything. Only part of it. So how can i say others are wrong?

I understand God in my own level of wisdom, others experience God on their level.

It seems to me you are dodging.
I didn't ask you if you would enter discussion over it.

I asked you specifically if you believe they are correct.

Do you think the lore Scientologists believe in has any bearing on reality?
Do you believe Tom Cruise is actually an "Operating Thetan" who can manipulate space and time?
Or do you think that he, and the other scientologists, must be mistaken?

Remember how these are mutually exclusive religions.
For them to be right, YOU have to be wrong. And vice versa.

You can't both be correct.

So, do you think Tom Cruise is actually an "Operating Thetan", or do you rather think he must be mistaken or delusional?


If this is still too hard for you, let's go a little closer to home then... You frequently have spoken out against extremist muslims like ISIS. The radical muslims who blow themselves up in crowds thinking it will earn them a spot in paradise as "soldiers of islam" and "martyrs".

You have already spoken out against them, distancing yourself from them.
So surely, you don't believe that they are correct in their beliefs, right?
So that would necessarily mean that you believe they are delusional / mistaken, right?

 

[Spirit of Light]

It seems to me you are dodging.
I didn't ask you if you would enter discussion over it.

I asked you specifically if you believe they are correct.

Do you think the lore Scientologists believe in has any bearing on reality?
Do you believe Tom Cruise is actually an "Operating Thetan" who can manipulate space and time?
Or do you think that he, and the other scientologists, must be mistaken?

Remember how these are mutually exclusive religions.
For them to be right, YOU have to be wrong. And vice versa.

You can't both be correct.

Scientologi in my understanding is science put in a religious setting. It's basic teaching is from a comicbook.
But i have not studied it. So can i say some of it or all is wrong? No i can't and won't.
I leave them believe it if that is what they want to believe

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Scientologi in my understanding is science put in a religious setting. It's basic teaching is from a comicbook.
But i have not studied it. So can i say some of it or all is wrong? No i can't and won't.
I leave them believe it if that is what they want to believe

So to sum up, in your opnion, it could very well be the case that abrahamic religions are completely wrong and that Tom Cruise actually is an "Operating Thetan" who can manipulate space and time?

 

[Spirit of Light]

So to sum up, in your opnion, it could very well be the case that abrahamic religions are completely wrong and that Tom Cruise actually is an "Operating Thetan" who can manipulate space and time?

No abrahamic religions are correct, but i can not comment on scientology

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No abrahamic religions are correct, but i can not comment on scientology

You forgot to add: "QED."

 

[Spirit of Light]

You forgot to add: "QED."

QED?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No abrahamic religions are correct, but i can not comment on scientology

To claim abrahamic religions are correct, implies scientology is wrong. Can't have it both ways.
This means by extension that Tom Cruise is either mistaken or delusional.

The point. You keep missing it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

To claim abrahamic religions are correct, implies scientology is wrong. Can't have it both ways.
This means by extension that Tom Cruise is either mistaken or delusional.

The point. You keep missing it.

Why can not other religions be correct? There are many paths to God, islam is only one teaching leading to God.
Yes Allah do say to only believe in him, to avoid people mixing teachings and become blinded by different ways of thinking, not because other religion can not teach a different way to find God

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why can not other religions be correct?

Because many of them are mutually exclusive. They can't all be correct.
Something you seem very unwilling to acknowledge.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

QED?

Quod erat demonstrandum. Latin for "what was to be shown," or freely translated as "therefore proved."

It was meant tonque-in-cheek (in jest, sarcastically), because you proved nothing at all except what @TagliatelliMonster and I have been saying -- that you have your beliefs.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Because many of them are mutually exclusive. They can't all be correct.
Something you seem very unwilling to acknowledge.

It has nothing to do with unwillingness, it has to do with understanding there are more than one way to God. And i have nothing against any religion.
Just because i chose to believe one way does not mean other ways is wrong