Why Do Islamic States Persecute Atheists ?

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Gsaseeker, i gave you the islamic ruling on dangerous forms of apostasy from the Sunni side of Islam. The shia side and ahmadiyya side of this issue, i dont know that. Religionists that follow that can tell you more about it. But anyways Its up to you what you do with such information. Your decision.

 

[gsa]

Gsaseeker, i gave you the islamic ruling on dangerous forms of apostasy from the Sunni side of Islam. The shia side and ahmadiyya side of this issue, i dont know that. Religionists that follow that can tell you more about it. But anyways Its up to you what you do with such information. Your decision.

To me, it simply confirms that these rulings are incompatible with liberal democracy (and various human rights conventions), and to the extent they cannot be separated from Islam generally, it means that Islam is incompatible with liberal democracy.

It renders Islam equivalent to other violent ideologies that had to be defeated to secure human rights. And maybe that is the case.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Ofcourse our religion is incompatible with liberal democrasy. Because we have rules on apostasy, gays etc.
And the same with the teachings of the Bible, it is incompatible with todays western law.
The only reason Europe is now at peace with gays, apostates etc is because they locked bible in the closet. Separation between State and Church.

I can assure you if Europe is to rule according to bible anyone who insults his parents will be executed, and so too apostates & homosexuals.

The Earth is big enough for all of us to rule by liberalism or by the teachings of quran/bible.

 

[Marsh]

Yes i can understand that view, though i like my corner dairy open on Sunday to buy milk..
however i would never imagine shopping on Shabbat .....
not that i would wish to prevent others who do not share my beliefs ....

I like art too, and literature, and particularly Sci Fi.

Science Fiction was always my favourite genre, though I've not read much of it in recent years. More recently I've read a lot of Neil Gaiman, an American fantasy writer, and George R. R. Martin's series A Song of Ice and Fire. Excellent! Aside from these (oh, and Harry Potter, which one of my nieces made me promise to read) I read mostly nonfiction now-a-days.

Were I live, Ontario, Canada, everything tends to be open on Sundays. It was very different when I was a kid. Most stores were closed on Sundays, but that was 50 years ago. Of course everything was open on Saturdays. Yes, I know. Christian countries have it all backwards.

 

[morphesium]

In Egypt, a man was sentenced to three years in prison for calling himself an atheist on Facebook. In the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, a growth in atheism has resulted in a state backlash, with a liberal blogger lashed for calling for religious toleration.

If there is no compulsion in Islam, why do Islamic states react so violently to atheism? What do they have to fear if Islam is true?

"Freedom of thought and expression" are religion killers. They will ask intelligent questions and will find faults in Islam (and all religion). how can the religious heads stand this? So they take all actions to prevent the occurrence of such incidents.
they impose religious teachings and rituals to the maximum in a systematic way - this should help to keep most of their thinking within the box. The one or two who happens to come out of this are punished in the most inhumane way.
They fear because ISLAM IS NOT THE TRUTH.

 

[gsa]

"Freedom of thought and expression" are religion killers. They will ask intelligent questions and will find faults in Islam (and all religion). how can the religious heads stand this? So they take all actions to prevent the occurrence of such incidents.
they impose religious teachings and rituals to the maximum in a systematic way - this should help to keep most of their thinking within the box. The one or two who happens to come out of this are punished in the most inhumane way.
They fear because ISLAM IS NOT THE TRUTH.

True. Free speech has been secured by the blood of secular martyrs. It was not given willingly for a reason.

 

[gsa]

The Earth is big enough for all of us to rule by liberalism or by the teachings of quran/bible.

No. There is no place for your belief system if humanity is to survive and thrive. If Islam cannot adapt, Islam must die.

My time interacting with you has been informative, I will grant you that. You have helped to set me on the straight and narrow.

We have nothing more to talk about.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

that sentence made me think about movie : Romeo must die.

Glad i was helpful in providing u with the information.

 

[Deidre]

Ofcourse our religion is incompatible with liberal democrasy. Because we have rules on apostasy, gays etc.
And the same with the teachings of the Bible, it is incompatible with todays western law.
The only reason Europe is now at peace with gays, apostates etc is because they locked bible in the closet. Separation between State and Church.

I can assure you if Europe is to rule according to bible anyone who insults his parents will be executed, and so too apostates & homosexuals.

The Earth is big enough for all of us to rule by liberalism or by the teachings of quran/bible.

I believe religion shouldn't govern any regions of the world, though. Because the chances of it being abused are great. Like we see happening now, and at other times in history. Separation of church and state can actually serve a common good, to protect people from such abuses. It isn't an oppressive thing.
Religious rules shouldn't be sanctioned as law. Just my opinion.

 

[gsa]

I believe religion shouldn't govern any regions of the world, though. Because the chances of it being abused are great. Like we see happening now, and at other times in history. Separation of church and state can actually serve a common good, to protect people from such abuses. It isn't an oppressive thing.
Religious rules shouldn't be sanctioned as law. Just my opinion.

I know you don't want to hear this, but what we want must sometimes yield to what is true.

My grandfather died. He was as important to me as your grandmother was to you. I don't know what follows this life, if there even is anything that follows this life. I loved him, and his absence tears at me.

You know why Christianity is false. I know that you understand the problems with it. But Islam is no more true. It offers no more solace, no more certainty. It is a religion made by and for men.

No one can offer us certainty. No one can tell us that we will see those we have lost.

I hope you find peace. But I know there is no peace in falsehood. Make your own way, my friend. I wish you the best.

 

[Smart_Guy]

The funny thing is, here in *audi *rabia, all kinds of beliefs can enter safely and stay with residence visas (even better than a passport stay) as long as they can. Where I work we have all kinds of beliefs.

What happens applies to locals only. Still bad, but at least it is something internal.

Sorry, can't talk much about it cuz I live here and for censoring the name. Please also if you quote me, try to not use noticeable keywords so they can't search and find me

*audi *rabia? Seriously?
They forbid women to drive cars and forbid children to make snowman lol

In their eyes i should receive lashings for writing that.

Yeah, some crazy bunch I tell ya!

We have a saying here (borrowed from Egypt I believe) that roughly translates to "stay away from evil and sing for it". It simply means to stay out of trouble by sacrificing things you wanna do. So I chose to abide to the law. These laws don't do damage or attack you for no reason at least.

 

[beenie]

What I have an issue with is banning of speech in particular in Islamic counties. If someone wants to proclaim their atheism, who cares?

Any religion worth surviving will be able to tolerate people criticizing and even leaving it. It should be able to withstand someone even speaking against it.

 

[morphesium]

Ofcourse our religion is incompatible with liberal democrasy. Because we have rules on apostasy, gays etc.
And the same with the teachings of the Bible, it is incompatible with todays western law.
The only reason Europe is now at peace with gays, apostates etc is because they locked bible in the closet. Separation between State and Church.

I can assure you if Europe is to rule according to bible anyone who insults his parents will be executed, and so too apostates & homosexuals.

The Earth is big enough for all of us to rule by liberalism or by the teachings of quran/bible.

Why do you think science and technology advanced so much in some part of the world? It is because most people in these countries happened to be (or brought up as) free thinkers – they have freedom of thought and expression – religion is no longer holding them back.


Imagine an identical situation that happens in two countries; country A and country B, where someone discovers a new aspect in theory of evolution or genetics:-


In country A, where people are not allowed to talk about evolution since their holy book has (holy) sentences that go against the theory of evolution. It is considered as blasphemy and as a result he is punished with a few 100 lashes.


In country B, where people are granted free will, other concerned people/organization will scrutinize it, try to develop it further or make some use of it. Finally they succeed in it and they make new medicines with it or make some kind of enzymes that has industrial use, etc.


Later, country A, they import these medicines for their own cure– (hopefully/despairingly even to treat their priests) and still you linger on with your holy books. How ethical is this?


Some of the modern drugs are based on knowledge that has disproved sentences in Quran. Human insulin for diabetics is one of them – without the knowledge of evolutionary theory; our scientists wouldn’t be able to make them. If such medicines have saved you or your loved ones, you do have a moral obligation to respect their knowledge – a moral obligation to believe that your “Quran” has sentences that are against the truth.

 

[Deidre]

I know you don't want to hear this, but what we want must sometimes yield to what is true.

My grandfather died. He was as important to me as your grandmother was to you. I don't know what follows this life, if there even is anything that follows this life. I loved him, and his absence tears at me.

You know why Christianity is false. I know that you understand the problems with it. But Islam is no more true. It offers no more solace, no more certainty. It is a religion made by and for men.

No one can offer us certainty. No one can tell us that we will see those we have lost.

I hope you find peace. But I know there is no peace in falsehood. Make your own way, my friend. I wish you the best.

I'm not sure what to say to you, here.

 

[MD]

I'm not sure what to say to you, here.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Islamic States = IS's

 

[LuisDantas]

LuisDantas, there is a verse in Quran:
1) and they dont fear the blame of blamers.

My mission is to show true islamic teachings on apostasy, u are free to criticize it, ridicule it or whatsoever.
But i will never compromise on my religion to make it sound better for non-muslims. . Alhamdulilah islam is made complete and i am not someone who appeases others by rejecting some islamic teachings and believing in some.

What you are saying is, in essence, that I might well be justified in mistrusting Islam.

Fair enough as such things go. Not reassuring, but what can one do?

In any case, maybe you want to give me an answer to the question I made in my previous post (#22): what does make Salman Rushdie qualify as a "warlike apostate"?

Should I accept your post #37 as enough of an explanation?

 

[LuisDantas]

i don't know about other countries but in Iran atheists live freely like muslims, and they even have a political party named " reformism ( eslaah talab ) " . they even ruled the government back in 1997-2005. even half of the present cabinet of government is full of them.
though they are not so wanted because of the lack of courage they show in international politics.

I must agree with Lewis. That is a very creative redefinition of the meaning of "atheism".

Mohammad Khatami gives no hint whatsoever of either being an atheist (he is actually a Shiite priest, for crying out loud), nor does the Iranian reform movement seem to be even allowed to claim any tolerance for atheism or even secularism.

If anything, the criticisms of the 1997-2005 period show that Iran has a hard time even dealing with the very concepts of atheism and secularism, let alone sustaining a claim of respecting either.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

In Egypt, a man was sentenced to three years in prison for calling himself an atheist on Facebook. In the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, a growth in atheism has resulted in a state backlash, with a liberal blogger lashed for calling for religious toleration.

If there is no compulsion in Islam, why do Islamic states react so violently to atheism? What do they have to fear if Islam is true?

The existence of God is not a scientific finding, it is based on faith. Which means the conclusion is not forced by evidence, but the conclusion is arrived at by choosing it. The choosing is sustained with emotions. Faith has the inherent fragility, and strength of emotions.

A fact one can just throw in the back of their mind and disregard it, and when one retrieves the fact months later, the fact would normally be unchanged. An opinion, if you throw it in the back of your mind, and retrieve it months later, it will be different, or gone.

So people do the job of sustaining faith, keep it alive, and then atheists come along to undermine that faith. Atheists generally reject all subjectivity, intellectually they only accept facts, not opinions. Atheism generally undermine the emotions of all people including themselves, like a stereotype of the coldhearted calculating mr Spock. What is also noticeable of atheists is that besides not accepting subjectivity is valid, atheists also do not accept freedom is real, in the way people talk about it in common discourse. According to atheists everything is forced, and no choosing takes place at all.

So to protect emotions of people, states make laws against people trying to destroy people's emotions, and laws against atheism are part of that.

In that way such laws are reasonable, but it would have to counterbalanced to the fact that only faith which is chosen is actual faith. Meaning only if one chooses the conclusion God exists, is the faith genuine. And if you put punishments on deciding God is not real, then one may become forced to the conclusion God is real, through fear of punishment, and that would make faith not genuine.

One can simply solve this issue by making requirements for having practical knowledge about how choosing works for much of any job. Any job has a social element, or morale element, and it can be done better if one knows how choosing works. That way atheism will be sidelined also, as it depends on denying freedom is a reality.

 

[gnostic]

Perhaps, but there are few representations of art within modern Islamic culture. I imagine this mullah perceives snowmen as a slippery slope.

I would guess that Muslims who see a carrot for a nose of the snowman, is considered "evil" or "shifty", so ALL SNOWMEN MUST BE ELIMINATED!

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.