Why do most people assume God is benevolent?

[gzusfrk]

There is an abundance of factual evidence that shows there is no benevolent God.

Cottage

I would like to see this factual evidence,

 

[Buttons*]

Why do most people assume God is benevolent?

I still say it's Anselm's fault

 

[rojse]

'Projecting'! It's not projection, it's a logical truth. Give me just one example of a thought or action that doesn't have a selfish element to it.

One day, as I was leaving my car, an old lady informed me that my headlights were on. I didn't know this lady, nor did she know me. I thanked her, turned my headlights off, and went to do my shopping. I never saw this old lady again.

What did this old lady get out of this transaction? I was saved having a car with a flat battery, but all she received in response was a few noisy words, easily uttered.

 

[rojse]

The Joey syndrom..
Was this "someone" a random person or family/friend/'friend'?
If it was a random person, did you feel good about yourself that you did this act?

I once picked up a hitch-hiker on the side of the road. He done nothing except badger me, distract me from listening to the radio, and babbled on about himself without being asked. He also smelled somewhat.

After having dropped him off some two hundred kilometres later (it was quite a long trip) he thanked me, but to be frank, I would have preferred not to be delayed for the five minutes it took him to pack his gear into my car, and another ten minutes for him to unpack his gear, and express his gratitude. I would have also preferred the peace and quiet.

That said, if I knew what I was in for, would I pick him up again? Yes. In spite of my cynical attitudes, I actually do good deeds on occasion and neither expect or want nothing in return for this.

 

[cottage]

One day, as I was leaving my car, an old lady informed me that my headlights were on. I didn't know this lady, nor did she know me. I thanked her, turned my headlights off, and went to do my shopping. I never saw this old lady again.

What did this old lady get out of this transaction? I was saved having a car with a flat battery, but all she received in response was a few noisy words, easily uttered.

The (justified) satisfaction that she'd done the right thing.

 

[cottage]

Someone helps someone without any selfish motivation... for example, a guy lends someone some money, just because they ask. I've done it

And by your charity you've done a good deed. You've done a positive thing and it makes you feel good about yourself. And why shouldn't you? You cannot be charged with meanness or refusing to answer to another's needs. But consider this: By lending the money in order to do the person a good turn you have the person's gratitude (a reward), but if you feel in someway intimidated by the borrower, then by lending the money you've alleviated or removed the immediate discomfort (defence). Either way there is a gain for the self.


How do these things disprove a benevolent God?

If there is good and evil in the world, and there is a God, it means God is sometimes benevolent and sometimes not. If God is only sometimes benevolent then he is not a benevolent deity, for a single instance of evil demonstrates the contradiction.

Cottage

 

[cottage]

I would like to see this factual evidence,

Look around you, visit a hospice, watch the news on TV? Human suffering is the factual evidence.

 

[Falvlun]

If there is good and evil in the world, and there is a God, it means God is sometimes benevolent and sometimes not. If God is only sometimes benevolent then he is not a benevolent deity, for a single instance of evil demonstrates the contradiction.

Cottage

I do disagree with you here. A single instance of evil does not demonstrate complete lack of benevolence; it simply demonstrates the lack of complete benevolence. In other words, evil can be an indication that God is not perfectly benevolent, but in itself, it does not indicate that God is not benevolent at all.

 

[sojourner]

There is none that I'm aware of (leaving aside the classic ontological, cosmological and teleological 'proofs', all of which have their respective difficulties). Nor can we assert 'There is no God' if (and only if) the concept is logically possible. And it is upon this point that the supposed attribute of benevolence demonstrates that such a God cannot logically exist.

Cottage

I'd still like to know where the evidence is that proves God does not exist at all...

No one can furnish the requested information?

 

[Falvlun]

No one can furnish the requested information?

You can't prove a negative, as I'm sure you are well aware. The standard reaction to most things that don't have any objective proof as to their existence is to not believe that they exist. God should not be an exception, but is treated as one.

 

[Storm]

You can't prove a negative, as I'm sure you are well aware. The standard reaction to most things that don't have any objective proof as to their existence is to not believe that they exist. God should not be an exception, but is treated as one.

That's arguable, but we're getting off-topic.

 

[Falvlun]

That's arguable, but we're getting off-topic.

Yeah, I know
Do you think it has enough merit to be its own thread, or has it been debated to death already?

 

[Storm]

If you want to make another thread, I would suggest approaching it from the angle of whether a double standard is applied to God, as opposed to the question of God's existence. The latter has been done to death, and I have no interest in rehashing it, personally.

 

[Falvlun]

If you want to make another thread, I would suggest approaching it from the angle of whether a double standard is applied to God, as opposed to the question of God's existence. The latter has been done to death, and I have no interest in rehashing it, personally.

The double standard being that atheists ask theists to justify thier belief in the existence of God with proof, but then admitting inability to provide any proof to justify their own beliefs?

 

[Storm]

The double standard being that atheists ask theists to justify thier belief in the existence of God with proof, but then admitting inability to provide any proof to justify their own beliefs?

Eh, not real interesting. No, I meant your earlier allegation:

The standard reaction to most things that don't have any objective proof as to their existence is to not believe that they exist. God should not be an exception, but is treated as one.

 

[logician]

Exactly.
But this point, though valid, doesn't explain why some people do ascribe benevolence to God.

Maybe because their religion teaches it?

 

[Imagist]

Why do most people assume God is benevolent?

It helps them sleep at night.

Seriously, if there is an omnipotent, omnisceient, omnipresent being, it would be damn frightening if he were malevolent.

With even passing consideration, though, it takes more than an assumption to believe that god is benevolent. It takes active denial to attribute god with the creation of the universe and not blame him for disease, natural disasters, and human imperfection.

 

[Imagist]

The (justified) satisfaction that she'd done the right thing.

This only defers the unselfishness of the act.

Satisfaction is in itself a thought; what selfish motivation is there to take satisfaction in helping another without reward?

 

[Mister Emu]

Was this "someone" a random person or family/friend/'friend'?

An acquaintance...

If it was a random person, did you feel good about yourself that you did this act?

No.

You've done a positive thing and it makes you feel good about yourself

As I said, it didn't really make me feel good about myself... and I wouldn't have felt bad about myself if I hadn't lent money to the person either...

By lending the money in order to do the person a good turn you have the person's gratitude (a reward

All I did was earn an expectance of more money I didn't do it for gratitude...

but if you feel in someway intimidated by the borrower, then by lending the money you've alleviated or removed the immediate discomfort (defence).

Nope...

Either way there is a gain for the self.

There really wasn't much if any gain(none that I noticed)...

That said, the existance of gain for self does not necessitate a selfish motivation. Even if one does "feel good about" oneself for doing a good deed, it only becomes a selfish act if you do it for the purpose of feeling good.

If there is good and evil in the world, and there is a God, it means God is sometimes benevolent and sometimes not.

Not so... there are many ways that there could be a benevolent God while evil exists... for instance an equally malevolent second deity. A God who considers free will the highest benevolence. Two right there...

 

[Imagist]

Not so... there are many ways that there could be a benevolent God while evil exists... for instance an equally malevolent second deity.

Most traditions which contain a "benevolent" deity and a malevolent deity say that the benevolent deity created everything, including the malevolent deity and the very concept of evil, and that the benevolent deity is absolutely powerful and could therefore stop the malevolent deity at any time. Given these circumstances, a truly benevolent deity would destroy the malevolent deity or remove the very concept of evil from existence.

A God who considers free will the highest benevolence.

God clearly limits our choices. I can't choose to levitate, teleport, or spontaneously combust.

If these limitations are acceptable within free will, then why wouldn't it be acceptable to prevent us from doing things like killing each other? Evil could be prevented easily and we would still have plenty of free will left to choose between mayonnaise or mustard, jeans or shorts, deal or no deal, and a million other choices.