Why do people believe what they believe?

[Truthseeker]

We all have different desires and preferences so why would that not apply to the religion we choose to believe in?

That is certainly true that it would apply. I hope that people apply some logic and reason also. I hope that that the facts will be investigated.

 

[Truthseeker]

Only when our desire for truth is stronger than the biases, can we objectively, rationally investigate the different religious claims.

I love that thought.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see what you may call the fundamental differences are not of God, they are man's interpretation of scriptures.

The fundamental foundation of all true Faiths will be Love, Unity, Virtues and Morals. They will all fight the good fight, calling us to change for the better, to serve each other, to Love God, loving all our fellow human sisters and brothers.

That the Faiths appear to differ is because the requirements for the age and peoples that Message was delivered to. These can change from age to age. God Annoints a Messenger, known by a New Name, they bring a new creation, a new heaven and earth, the New Word of God and the Laws.

Our One God, is known by many Names and Attributes, but they are all a reflection of the One God.

This change of mind, this frame of reference immediately sees One God in all Faiths, as we now look for the Good that is of God and see the differences for what they really are, they are our own misconceptions, our own misunderstanding of what God has given us.

Regards Tony

Yes, how very true... for Baha'is.

But what the Baha'is believe to be true makes what the people in all the other religions false. They, by your own words, are filled with misconceptions and misunderstandings... of their own Scriptures?

That's why I argue with Baha'is in that other thread... Baha'is really don't "accept" or "embrace" the other religions and their Scriptures.

 

[CG Didymus]

although we are all sinners Jesus paid our fine, as an act of love and sacrifice, but it's our choice to believe it or not. Good deeds are what we should do, but it does not save us,

I don't think her beliefs about Paul is an official Baha'i position. Or... maybe "unofficially" it is. I don't see the Baha'i Faith believing in any doctrine like the "saved" by grace belief.

I almost like it, but I don't see how it works. A person is forgiven by accepting Jesus, and that he died to pay the penalty for their sin. But now what? We know they're going to keep sinning. So, is it saved and forgiven of the sins they've already committed, but what about the sins they commit after that? Are they forgiven if they continue sinning? Or are they expected to repent?

And, since I doubt that anyone ever stops doing one sin or another, then they've never really repented of all the sins they commit. So, how does that work? They're forgiven. They sin some more. They repent for some of them, but never repent of all of them. And they go through life knowing that they are doing this?

 

[Truthseeker]

Experience.

Initially, children will adopt the beliefs in which they are raised. At some point based on critical thinking, inherent tendencies, and/or experiences beyond their immediate family, those adopted beliefs will either be accepted or rejected.

I think that most people don't use critical thinking in adopting a religion. Hopefully, they would.

For those that believe in God, the answer provided above applies. But there are others who have a direct experience of God, so for them, God is as self evident at the hand at the end of their arm.

I believe that I have had experiences of God, but it needs to be verified as not just a strong feeling, don't you think? It either has to overwhelm you, or be backed up by outer evidence, in my opinion.

 

[Truthseeker]

We do not choose the religion that we are attracted to, that is determined by our desires and preferences, but we do choose to join that religion or not.

Maybe we do, but that does not mean that the religion that we are biased towards is not the truth.
How can anyone really know which religion is the truth? I don't think it is possible to know, we can only believe.

Sometimes it's possible to know in my opinion. I believe I know to 99.99% certainty.

We cannot avoid our subjective feelings about any given religion, that which you call biases, but we can still objectively, rationally investigate the different religious claims.

No conflict I predict with @Heyo on this one or myself.

 

[Truthseeker]

Let me guess. The only religion that will lead you to God is Christianity, right?

That's a safe guess since his avatar is a traditional depiction of what Jesus looks like.

People are not flocking towards Christianity and in fact Christianity is having a difficult time retaining membership.

They are not retaining in North America and Europe. Most other places they are retaining.

 

[Heyo]

That's why I argue with Baha'is in that other thread... Baha'is really don't "accept" or "embrace" the other religions and their Scriptures.

My impression of Bahá'í is a well-meaning but flawed and therefore failed attempt at unification. The thinking must have been something like this:
-There are so many religions, and they all fight each other.
-Let's create a new religion to combine all the others.

The effect is, of course, one more religion, that is fighting with all the others.

 

[Sumadji]

there are others who have a direct experience of God, so for them, God is as self evident at the hand at the end of their arm.

this

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Or many are True, and we are yet to understand that. The many sheep of differnt folds, will become One fold with one Shepherd.

Regards Tony

Or we could grow up, become men and not need a Shepherd.

 

[Tony B]

"My Religion is the only Truth"
Equals Spiritual arrogance, Scriptures declare
(which is the biggest obstacle to reach God)

Hence

False

Arrogance is known to blind people
Hence you still misinterpret my reply

Firstly, It's not 'my religion', Christianity is for everyone who chooses it. Calling God arrogant is not wise, the second commandment is quite clear, and God re-enforced that commandment with the Great Flood, an event recorded world wide in all cultures and evidenced geographically everywhere across the globe and by the fossil record, as well as the scattering of the people at Babylon. No scripture in the Bible disagrees with what I've just stated, it re-enforces it continually, as does Jesus, the only deity known to have walked the earth.

 

[Tony B]

I don't think her beliefs about Paul is an official Baha'i position. Or... maybe "unofficially" it is. I don't see the Baha'i Faith believing in any doctrine like the "saved" by grace belief.

I almost like it, but I don't see how it works. A person is forgiven by accepting Jesus, and that he died to pay the penalty for their sin. But now what? We know they're going to keep sinning. So, is it saved and forgiven of the sins they've already committed, but what about the sins they commit after that? Are they forgiven if they continue sinning? Or are they expected to repent?

And, since I doubt that anyone ever stops doing one sin or another, then they've never really repented of all the sins they commit. So, how does that work? They're forgiven. They sin some more. They repent for some of them, but never repent of all of them. And they go through life knowing that they are doing this?

I don't have all the answers as I'm not God, but if you have been baptised, accepted Jesus as your saviour and repent of your sins, then you are saved, scripture is quite clear on this. Now if you continue to wilfully sin for the rest of your life then you will be judged by God accordingly, as we will all face judgement. Jesus himself is quite clear on what happens if we do not genuinely repent;

Matthew 7:21-23

English Standard Version
​

I Never Knew You​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Ultimately God is just and merciful, one thing you can be sure of is if you do not accept Christ as your saviour then it doesn't end well.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Firstly, It's not 'my religion', Christianity is for everyone who chooses it.

I think you know that @stvdv meant by the religion you identify with. You indicate your religion "Christian" in your profile. No need for such silly semantic games.

Calling God arrogant is not wise, the second commandment is quite clear...

Why do you assume that the Second Commandment is relevant to someone who doesn't identify as Christian or even Abrahamic?

and God re-enforced that commandment with the Great Flood, an event recorded world wide in all cultures and evidenced geographically everywhere across the globe and by the fossil record, as well as the scattering of the people at Babylon.

We have threads here of countless pages that discuss the validity of the Bible's claim of the "Great Flood" and the so-called "evidence" that surrounds it.

No scripture in the Bible disagrees with what I've just stated, it re-enforces it continually, as does Jesus, the only deity known to have walked the earth.

Not everyone accepts the Bible as their scripture.

 

[Tony B]

I think you know that @stvdv meant by the religion you identify with. You indicate your religion "Christian" in your profile. No need for such silly semantic games.

How can it be a 'silly semantic game' to explain why there is only one valid religion when discussing that exact point? They accused me of being arrogant on that point, I explained why that is a ridiculous accusation based on scripture.

Why do you assume that the Second Commandment is relevant to someone who doesn't identify as Christian or even Abrahamic?

I don't assume it, it's what the Bible tells us. You don't seriously expect me to play 'Burger King Christianity' do you? I'll have it my way? Why don't you ask a Muslim why he won't accept that people are ruled over by Allah?

We have threads here of countless pages that discuss the validity of the Bible's claim of the "Great Flood" and the so-called "evidence" that surrounds it.

I see, so that means it should never be mentioned elsewhere? How do I make a point about the consequences of disobeying God and ignore the flood, the greatest extinction event in human history?

Not everyone accepts the Bible as their scripture.

Yes, that is a very big problem, but we all have free will, I just explain the consequences and why it is so.

 

[Tony B]

Or we could grow up, become men and not need a Shepherd.

In secular societies how has that worked out so far? Nazism, Communism? not great is it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or we could grow up, become men and not need a Shepherd.

The way I see that statement is one of a rebellious adolescent who thinks growing up means complete liberty, which in the end ònly leads to sedition. Humanity is in need of guidance to protect itself from its own ignorance. An adult, knowing this, will embrace that guidance.

Regards Tony

 

[SalixIncendium]

How can it be a 'silly semantic game' to explain why there is only one valid religion when discussing that exact point? They accused me of being arrogant on that point, I explained why that is a ridiculous accusation based on scripture.

The One Valid Religion™ claim is based on the scripture of that religion. As I already said, not everyone accepts the Bible as their scripture. It's like me claiming the "One Valid Cornbread Recipe™" based my own cookbook.

I don't assume it, it's what the Bible tells us.

"Us?" Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

You don't seriously expect me to play 'Burger King Christianity' do you? I'll have it my way?

I expect you to respect others' rights to their own religious views, just as I respect yours, and to not assume the Bible is relevant to non-Abrahamics. I expect you to not shove you religion down other people's throats.

Why don't you ask a Muslim why he won't accept that people are ruled over by Allah?

Huh?

I see, so that means it should never be mentioned elsewhere? How do I make a point about the consequences of disobeying God and ignore the flood, the greatest extinction event in human history?

It means you shouldn't use it as a tool to impose your religious beliefs upon others.

Yes, that is a very big problem, but we all have free will, I just explain the consequences and why it is so.

It's a problem for you, not for me, and those "consequences" may be relevant to you, but not relevant for everyone.

 

[Tony B]

The One Valid Religion™ claim is based on the scripture of that religion. As I already said, not everyone accepts the Bible as their scripture. It's like me claiming the "One Valid Cornbread Recipe™" based my own cookbook.

No, it isn't based solely on the scripture of that religion, it's based on the geography, historical events, eye witness accounts AND scripture of the religion, otherwise we just have a competition of essays. It just so happens that Biblical scripture is backed and supported by all those things, incredibly so if you investigate it.

"Us?" Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

So you think I'm the only person whose ever read the Bible or considered it?

I expect you to respect others' rights to their own religious views, just as I respect yours, and to not assume the Bible is relevant to non-Abrahamics. I expect you to not shove you religion down other people's throats.

Explaining that the Bible is pertinent to all is not 'shoving' anything, a Muslim will do the same on the Quran etc etc. I respect people's rights to choose, God tells us we have free will, but I can't answer accusations without discussing it can I? and lets be clear, this particular thread came from an accusation. Do I have the right to defend myself or not? or are we big into censorship here?

Huh?


It means you shouldn't use it as a tool to impose your religious beliefs upon others.

I'm not imposing anything, you have free will, you can completely ignore what I say, I have no power over anyone, only God has that.

It's a problem for you, not for me, and those "consequences" may be relevant to you, but not relevant for everyone.

They are relevant to everyone, and you can choose to ignore them, I'm just explaining why that's a bad idea, take it or leave it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No, it isn't based solely on the scripture of that religion, it's based on the geography, historical events, eye witness accounts AND scripture of the religion, otherwise we just have a competition of essays. It just so happens that Biblical scripture is backed and supported by all those things, incredibly so if you investigate it.

Show me the geography, historical events, and eye witness accounts outside the Bible that demonstrate that Christianity is the One Valid Religion™.

So you think I'm the only person whose ever read the Bible or considered it?

Nope. I've read the Bible and considered it as well. The Bible apparently doesn't tell me what the Bible telling you. And that's okay.

Also, if "us" means something besides "me and you," use your pronoun antecedents.

Explaining that the Bible is pertinent to all is not 'shoving' anything, a Muslim will do the same on the Quran etc etc.

And whether Christian or Muslim, unsolicited, this is called 'proselytizing.' Incidentally, proselytizing here violates the forum rules.

I respect people's rights to choose, God tells us we have free will...

Again with the "us." God does not tell me I have free will, regardless what God tells you.

...but I can't answer accusations without discussing it can I?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...especially in the fashion you did.

and lets be clear, this particular thread came from an accusation.

The thread is about why people believe what they believe. How does that come from an accusation?

Do I have the right to defend myself or not? or are we big into censorship here?

Sure you do. You don't, however, have the right to impose your beliefs upon others by pretending your religion is the "One Valid Religion™."

I'm not imposing anything...

I've already demonstrated how you are in this very thread.

...you have free will, you can completely ignore what I say...

Of course I can. I choose not to.

I have no power over anyone, only God has that.

God may have power over you, but God has no power over me.

They are relevant to everyone, and you can choose to ignore them, I'm just explaining why that's a bad idea, take it or leave it.

They are not relevant to everyone, and I just explained to you why. And sure, I can choose to ignore them. I can also choose to dismiss or reject them and tell you why.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In secular societies how has that worked out so far? Nazism, Communism? not great is it.

And I suppose you think it's going so much better in theocracies -- like Saudi Arabia and Iran? How many one-handed people does the world need, after all?