Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

[Sonofason]

The "light-curve characteristics reflecting the respective decay times" means that the radioactive elements discovered in the spectra of the supernova decreased in abundance over time at the rate expected of their known decay rates. Since the light from that supernova is 168,000 years old, then the decay rates of those elements must have been the same 168,000 years ago as they are today. If they weren't, then the decay rates observed of the spectra would not have matched that known to be true of the radionuclides today. That would have been major scientific news if it was found to be different.

Now, if I could just see that the recorded data and observations match that which was observed, we could be in business.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Sonofason]

Gravity has even the leading scientists scratching their heads. Nobody really understands how exactly it works. We can see it's effects, but how does it work? "It remains untamed" to quote Stephen Hawking from a documentary from a few years ago.
And why is current lack of understanding at all any valid reason to dismiss something? I doubt you understand quantum physics, plate tectonic movement, but do you question them? Do you really even understand how your computer and the internet works?

I didn't say I know how it works. I believe it works. And I believe it works, because it exists.

As for plate tectonic movement, you'll have to show me more evidence. I personally like the idea of the Expanding Earth Theory. To me that makes more sense.

 

[columbus]

Perhaps you can explain why it is important to know the age of a fossil?

It isn't important to accurately date any one fossil. What is important is learning how to know things.
The scientific method is to observe and infer from nature. The religious method is to trust humans. Science is looking at what is and believing in that, religion is believing in what somebody tells you to believe.

I'm too tired to respond to post # 652 tonight, given that there are a couple of other threads I want to respond to, so see you tomorrow.
Tom

 

[Parsimony]

Now, if I could just see that the recorded data and observations match that which was observed, we could be in business.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Well, I won't fault you for wanting to see all the exact numbers. If I ever do find them (or something equally compelling), I'll let you know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I didn't say I know how it works. I believe it works. And I believe it works, because it exists.

As for plate tectonic movement, you'll have to show me more evidence. I personally like the idea of the Expanding Earth Theory. To me that makes more sense.

You said you don't see a reason to believe in something if you don't understand it.

As for Expanding Earth, there is no evidence for it. If the earth was getting bigger, oceans would be lowering, the days would be getting longer, mountain ranges would lower, even the earth's tempurature would be very different. And we can also measure the radius of the earth, which does not indicate the earth is getting bigger.

 

[Sapiens]

I didn't say I know how it works. I believe it works. And I believe it works, because it exists.

As for plate tectonic movement, you'll have to show me more evidence. I personally like the idea of the Expanding Earth Theory. To me that makes more sense.

I guess you don't "believe" in the orbital mechanics that control geosynchronous navigation satellites? Is that correct?

 

[Sonofason]

You said you don't see a reason to believe in something if you don't understand it.

As for Expanding Earth, there is no evidence for it. If the earth was getting bigger, oceans would be lowering, the days would be getting longer, mountain ranges would lower, even the earth's tempurature would be very different. And we can also measure the radius of the earth, which does not indicate the earth is getting bigger.

I just find that it is reasonable in the sense that all of the "plates" fit together, even those around the Pacific, without employing plate subduction.

I'm not sure what to tell you about the oceans. Did you ever see images of the Mesozoic land mass of Appalachia?
Land Water Boundaries ? Essential Human Infrastructures-Emerald Eco-City Motivation
I'm not sure, but it looks like a lot more water was on the planet, or the planet was a lot smaller, or maybe it was a result of melted ice, i just don't know. It's all so theoretical.

I don't have a problem with thinking that the days were shorter, but why do you think it is necessary for the days to get shorter. 1 revolution per day is still one revolution per day. Why would that change?

As the earth expands, it would crack in some areas. As it stretches in some places, but not in others, the mountains would form. And then of course erosion will knock them back down eventually.

I don't doubt that the temperature would have been different, but why do you suggest it would have been different?

How long have we been measuring the earth's radius? I haven't seen any data throughout the years. All I see is a number like 25,000. I don't know if it is increasing or not. As far as I know, it could be.

 

[Sonofason]

I guess you don't "believe" in the orbital mechanics that control geosynchronous navigation satellites? Is that correct?

I guess I don't care.

 

[Sapiens]

I guess I don't care.

So everything you believe in is demonstrable lies and "you don't care." Why are you here then?

 

[serp777]

For most people, it takes a great deal of faith to believe that evidence. I know it's hard to understand, but until you do, just have faith that it's true.

Then you don't understand the evidence. It's not even that complicated.

 

[monti]

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Simply because it (religion/god) is faith based.

And because some have moved on since the year dot.
Some of course want to send us back to the ancient and medieval slaughter of BC and early AD.

 

[Tiapan]

Peace be on everyone.

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Edit / add: and what is the source of morality in life, of above mentioned people?

Fortunately I was not brought up in a Theocracy, so I have not been imprinted with the god concept. Having experienced sixty years of life, I am glad I am not burdened with such childish concepts, and feel sad that I see so many adults still believing in these rather silly concepts.

Cheers

 

[LuisDantas]

A god that needs us to lie to ourselves doesn't deserve nor receive my respect.

Nor mine.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know. I believe you exist. I believe the world exists. I believe the universe exists. I believe in atoms, and electrons. I believe in gravity. I believe in universal truth. I believe in God, and much much more. But that doesn't seem like solipsism to me.

I tend to base my beliefs on evidence, not mere speculation. And furthermore, if I can't understand it, I see no reason to believe it.

Yet you apply those criteria rather arbitrarily. You believe in God with basically no evidence, and doubt much of science for no discernible reason.

 

[LuisDantas]

Fortunately I was not brought up in a Theocracy, so I have not been imprinted with the god concept. Having experienced sixty years of life, I am glad I am not burdened with such childish concepts, and feel sad that I see so many adults still believing in these rather silly concepts.

Cheers

I hear you. It is regrettable that it is not possible to make the experiment and find out how much of belief in God is due to the individual and how much is due to the environment.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

If I had not experienced God for myself, I don't know what exactly I would believe. I suppose I could have been convinced that some sort of deistic God existed, but I think it would be difficult to believe in a personal, loving God, if I did not experience a personal, loving relationship with God.

However that is a subjective view of your own creation as you have already admitted.

To take it the next step, how do you know it is god?

edit:
And you dodged my hypothetical question. I actually wanted an answer. It wasn't simply rhetorical.

 

[columbus]

You see, that's just it. I have never known anyone that has dated any fossil, and I have never known anyone who has witnessed that the sun predates the earth. And so I have a hard time believing them. I rarely trust people I do not know, unless I can easily put to the test what they say, and confirm what they say for myself.

I have known people who date fossils, and lots of other stuff. They are not that hard to find. And while nobody was around 5 billion years, there are ways of infering the truth from what we can experience ourselves. These people are working with the single goal of using the best we have to determine what is true about the physical universe. I do not understand why you find your own opinion more credible, much less that of unsophisticated bronze age people. You don't know them either.
There is good reason to mistrust the Bible writers, at least when it comes to science. They had an agenda that wasn't about accurately describing nature.

I was prompted to seek God by someone I trusted. I was most inclined to believe when he said that God does exist, and that he himself experiences God, that He experienced God. So I sought God. And as a result, I experience God too. And so, and nevertheless, what that man said to me, I have confirmed for myself.

I know lot's of people who have religious experiences like that. Hindus, Muslims, you name it. I have a friend who experienced God after climbing a small mountain, leaving behind everything(including water, food and clothes) and staying up there for two days.
I believe you (and most of them) are quite sincere. So, what that tells me is that there is nothing unique about Christianity. Had the human you decided to trust been a Muslim, you'd have experienced Allah.
Frankly, I'm inclined to believe God exists. But not that we know anything important on the subject. I honestly believe that most people can induce the illusion of a relationship such as you describe if they really want. It is when the "wish" in wishful thinking overcomes the "think".
I just find the folks like yourself too inclined to tell me things that are not credible.

I am curious what people are telling you. Some people do lie. And that is very sad. Some people state as facts mere beliefs, and that too is very sad. We really should be more honest with one another.

I'm not really talking about lying, not usually. The people are telling me things that they truly believe. The Quran was delivered by an angel. Jesus rose from the dead. Moses parted the Red Sea. The earth is about 6000 years old. Nobody came forward to contradict the Gospels. Forward this email and you'll get lucky. .....

I promise, I will continue to be honest with you.

I don't doubt that you are honest with me, by your lights. But I still don't believe you. I am unable to believe you. What you say doesn't make sense. Or to rephrase that, there are better explanations for everything you have told me than religion being an accurate reflection of reality.

Tom

 

[Brigida H]

In answer to the question. I think you all ready kind of mentioned it in your second part of the message Maybe, it has something to do with morals and a soul. I believe we can still have morals and a soul without the belief of God.

On a more personal level of how I grew up as a child in a ghetto, as a minority and with half brothers and a sister and a mother that were all unkind and down right mean.
I had my own doubts about God. I believed in God always but sometimes I wondered about God's existence because of the pain and suffering that I went through and including my brother, as I look back now.

I think even ones pain and suffering can change a belief to doubt God's existence.

Maybe even the possibilities that we can still have the Big Bang Theory without a supreme being.

 

[viole]

If what you call evidence is not convincing to me, then I am most justified in denying that which you call evidence as being evidence for me.

I believe it is wrong to suggest that a piece of evidence is evidence for all. It is not.

Evidence is subjective. That which is evidence for one person is not necessarily evidence for every person.

Please note, I have not suggested that evolution is not true. What I have done is asked for evidence. When I ask for evidence, I am looking for that which I consider evidence. In other words, I want something that convinces me. Of course, all you can do is provide that which has convinced you, and hope that it convinces me. But as I've said, evidence is subjective.

Because Jesus tells us something of those who do not love and obey Him in John, chapter 3, verse 18. And I believe that verse should raise concerns for those who do not believe in Him

P.S. As well those who do.

This does not make a lot of logical sense.

My concern about what is written in John is the same concern you have for what is written in Qur'an. Why aren't you concerned about the claims of Islam? Your answer, is my answer.

For an atheist, fear of hell, or for some other unpleasant consequences for not believing in those tales, is the same sheer terror we feel when we are threatened with no presents next Christmas for not believing in Santa.

What logical reasons are there to be concerned about something you do not believe in? Or even know that it does not exist?

What do you think?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sonofason]

Yet you apply those criteria rather arbitrarily. You believe in God with basically no evidence, and doubt much of science for no discernible reason.

I believe in God based on evidence I have received that God exists. That is evidence that you cannot have, nor see. And so it doesn't surprise me that you would consider my evidence to be basically no evidence, as my evidence is not your evidence. That which I experience of God, you do not experience of God, and so my evidence is no evidence to you.

That which convinces me that something is true is evidence that something is true. You have not shown me any convincing scientific evidence that anything is true. Just show the evidence that convinces me, and I will believe.