Why do so few people keep the seventh day Sabbath?

[sojourner]

So when Jesus sais "if you would enter into life, keep the commandments" he was only speaking to Jews. Non-Jews have a different way?

Not exactly. You really need to read Paul.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I respectfully but strongly disagree. Overall its failure to state principles is its most vivid failure. Each reader has to invent for himself or herself what "murder", or "lawful homicide" and "unlawful homicide" mean, words whose definitions across state and world jurisdictions vary widely, and are affected by the allowable defenses and mitigations.
Doesn't work in modern Israel, doesn't work in the USA, still the most bible-influenced nation in the First World. I suggest that if all personal, governmental and commercial relations were governed by express principles requiring decency, respect and inclusion, fairness and reciprocity, emphasis on education and equal opportunity, we might get somewhere. But in the real world that's probably as much pie in the sky as yours is.
It's essential that people should be free to form their own views regarding religion. Living in someone else's theocracy is a particular form of hell.

Hi blü 2. Good evening. Thank you for getting back to me. I see, so you feel there's not enough detail in the Law. That's understandable. It's quite clear that the 10 commandments are indeed very broad to cover most aspects in our lives, but the rest of the commandments in the Bible go in to more detail of what Yahweh expects from His people. But to take for example the 6th commandment, not to murder. Most people can understand what this means. It means we don't purposely try to kill another human being. Because the law is so broad, you can come up with other principles such as we should try to protect life, we should try to look after the health of others etc. Yahweh's Law is powerful and one Law has so much implications. But in terms of what you have said about lawful homicide, the other Laws in the Bible cover such, such as Numbers 35:11. A way was provided so that one who killed another without intent could find safety and be protected by the Law.

The reason why countries that claim to uphold the commandments are failing is because they're not upholding the Law. Therefore the law is slacked, and justice doth never go forth; for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore justice goeth forth perverted reads Habakuk 1:4. People would rather admit to a crime they haven't committed to get a less heavy sentence, or find other workarounds around the law when justice should be about firstly getting the truth, and then determining judgment. Today, the fact that prisons are full deters judges from sending guilty people to prison also. Important evidence sometimes isn’t made available until the last minute, or isn’t disclosed at all.

You say the law should be "governed by express principles requiring decency, respect and inclusion, fairness and reciprocity, emphasis on education and equal opportunity, we might get somewhere." but these are all things that the Law of Yahweh does, starting with but not limited to, the Ten Commandments.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

This is how Jesus saw the Commandment, "Thou shalt not commit adultery"
You shall not even look upon a woman in lust.
Now was Jesus preaching the Commandments?

Hi & good evening PruePhillip. Isaiah 42:21 says "It pleased Yahweh, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable." Yahshua magnified the Law. He made it so it envelops every aspect of our lives. Yahshua was magnifying the law not to commit adultery, saying one can do so in heart also by lusting after a woman. This is also sin. He also magnified on the law of do not commit murder in Matthew 5:21-23 implying that character assasination or speaking evil of brother is similar to murder.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Most Christians consider the faith of Christ to be the foundation of our faith.


A lot of people do keep Sabbath. And a lot of Christians follow the science of our origins, rather than mistreat the creation myths with a literalistic reading.


Yup. That’s because our Sabbath is a celebration of God’s new creation: the Resurrection.


Most Christians do not subscribe to the heresy of sola scriptura.


...for Jews.


We can.


We can.


In what way does the different observance by a different religion constitute “God abandoning the Sabbath?”


Why don’t you stop proselytizing?

Hi Sojourner. Good evening. You say "Most Christians consider the faith of Christ to be the foundation of our faith." Fair enough. What did the Messiah stand for? What was his faith? Because Yahshua kept the Sabbath Day and He is our example isn't he? Or do you feel that Yahshua would preach a no-law doctrine? If that's the case, why does Yahshua say in matthew 5:17 the following: "17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

This was right at the beginning of his ministry. Yahshua was a Rabbi. He taught the Law of Yahweh.

You say: "A lot of people do keep Sabbath. And a lot of Christians follow the science of our origins, rather than mistreat the creation myths with a literalistic reading." You mean like the origins that you have 14 billion year old stars in a universe that is only 13.8 billion years old? Why sell out? By keeping the seventh day Sabbath we are witnessing that Yahweh created in six literal days and rested on the 7th. If you want to be a stauch proponent of evolution, then by all means keep any day you choose for your resting day. Only one day was blessed and only one day was hallowed. If you don't want to be blessed or hallowed, that that's your prerogative.

You say "That’s because our Sabbath is a celebration of God’s new creation: the Resurrection." Firstly, have you ever studied in to the ressurrection? Yahshua wasn't ressurrected on the Sunday. Let's just be clear. And secondly, even if he was, what right does that give anyone to change the day of rest? Did Yahweh decide after millennia that he rested, blessed and hallowed the wrong day?

You say "In what way does the different observance by a different religion constitute “God abandoning the Sabbath?” My point was that Yahweh would not choose to set aside the Sabbath when it has so much benefits for man both mind, body and spiritually. The last time I checked, most Chr-stians don't keep a seventh-day Sabbath. You've got a problem on your hands when you deny a literal Sabbath Day. Some people in some nations of the world are overworked, working seven days a week and they have no rest, their health and mental health is in bad shape and then they are people as yourself who claim that Sabbath isn't necessary. It is necessary. Yahweh wants His people to be in good health. He has commanded a Sabbath Day.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Christians aren’t specifically beholden to the Ten Commandments.

Hi sojourner. What commandments should Chr-stians observe? We know from what Yahshua said in Matthew 22:34 he said they are two commandments which the whole law hangs: "34 But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, gathered themselves together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him: 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Yahweh your Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets."

If you don't love Yahweh, you won't keep the seventh day Sabbath.

But more importantly, Yahshua said the whole law hangs on these commandments. He didn't say these laws replace the commandments of Yahweh. So my question to you is, remind me, what laws are Chr-stians required to keep?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I believe the law in the Old Testament was a shadow of things that would be spiritual in the New Covenant. God created things and then rested on the Seventh day. Under the Old Covenant God required his people to keep a natural Sabbath day of rest. The Sabbath day of rest in the Old Testament represented the eternal Sabbath day of rest that awaits God's people in the New Covenant. We call that eternal day of rest - Heaven.

Hi TrueBeliever37. Good evening. The New Covenant is described in Jeremiah 31:31. In verse 33 it says: "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people. " The Law is integral to the New Covenant, but it is internalized. So what you are saying about the laws being done away with is not accurate.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hi Katzpur. Sorry if you took offense. The Bible tells us in Hebrews 3:12 that an evil heart is one of unbelief. I'm sure many people take offense at such words, but this is what the Bible tells us.

You're telling one o the friendliest and nicest members we've ever had here she has an evil heart. Someone who show's the love of Jesus in how she treats others, instead of trying to whack people upside the head and condemn them with Paul's dogma.
What is seriously the matter with you?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

You're telling one o the friendliest and nicest members we've ever had here she has an evil heart. Someone who show's the love of Jesus in how she treats others, instead of trying to whack people upside the head and condemn them with Paul's dogma.
What is seriously the matter with you?

Hi Shadow Wolf. That was my mistake. But I don't feel a good heart chooses which days they should keep as the Sabbath Day when Yahweh has already decided.

 

[McBell]

Hi Shadow Wolf. That was my mistake. But I don't feel a good heart chooses which days they should keep as the Sabbath Day when Yahweh has already decided.

It is interesting how you completely ignore every attempt at getting you to show through scripture which day of the week is the sabbath.

And yet, here you are judging people over it then hiding behind Yahweh when called out about the judging.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

It is interesting how you completely ignore every attempt at getting you to show through scripture which day of the week is the sabbath.

And yet, here you are judging people over it then hiding behind Yahweh when called out about the judging.

Hi Mestemia. Um. Remind me of the scripture of which day of the week is the Sabbath Mestemia. I must've missed it.

 

[McBell]

Hi Mestemia. Um. Remind me of the scripture of which day of the week is the Sabbath Mestemia. I must've missed it.

I am flat out asking YOU to provide which day of the week is the Sabbath using Scripture.

I have been completely unsuccessful in finding even one verse that names the day other than "the seventh day".

Now since I have no problems admitting I am far from an expert on Scripture, I have no problem accepting that I may very well have missed it.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I am flat out asking YOU to provide which day of the week is the Sabbath using Scripture.

I have been completely unsuccessful in finding even one verse that names the day other than "the seventh day".

Now since I have no problems admitting I am far from an expert on Scripture, I have no problem accepting that I may very well have missed it.

Hi Mestemia. As I have said, the seventh day is recognized by Chr-stians and Jews to be Saturday. The Hebrew doesn't designate names to days, but the days are recognized through numbers. Day 1, Day 2, Day 3 etc. We know that the Bible designates the 7th day as the Sabbath. The Jews have been faithful in keeping the seventh day Sabbath for Millenia. Now unless you want to say that the Jews got it wrong, there is a seventh day Sabbath and it begins Friday evening.

 

[blü 2]

Hi blü 2. Good evening. Thank you for getting back to me. I see, so you feel there's not enough detail in the Law.

That's only part of it. My objections are basically of three kinds ─
─ instead of religious requirements, there needs to be freedom to holds one's own views regarding religion (consistent however with the values below)
─ the failure to set out principles, to require ─ personally, in business, and in government ─ honesty, fairness, decency, reciprocity, inclusion, respect, kindness and equality of opportunity, as such and in as many words
─ omissions such as the failure to reject slavery, to have acceptance of sexual orientation, acceptance of humanity regardless of race, to ensure the equal status of women, and more.

the 10 commandments are indeed very broad to cover most aspects in our lives, but the rest of the commandments in the Bible go in to more detail of what Yahweh expects from His people.

I don't think you'd accept someone else's theocracy, nor they (nor I) yours.

But to take for example the 6th commandment, not to murder. Most people can understand what this means. It means we don't purposely try to kill another human being.

The Law says that you're only liable for the death of your slave if [he] dies within 24 hours as a result of the beating you gave [him]. I think that's murder / 1st degree homicide straight up and regardless of the 24 hours.

Because the law is so broad, you can come up with other principles such as we should try to protect life

But not all life; there's no concept of environmental protection there.

in terms of what you have said about lawful homicide, the other Laws in the Bible cover such, such as Numbers 35:11.

Do they allow a defense of insanity? Self-defense? Provocation? Crime of passion? Honor killing? Duelling? Death in the course of a citizen's arrest? A police arrest? Indifference rather than intention?

The reason why countries that claim to uphold the commandments are failing is because they're not upholding the Law.

You mean they don't put witches to death, or children who razz their parents, or men who cut their beards? They let menstruating women appear in company? They eat pork and shellfish? They have only one sink in the kitchen? They work on the Sabbath?

Therefore the law is slacked, and justice doth never go forth; for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore justice goeth forth perverted reads Habakuk 1:4. People would rather admit to a crime they haven't committed to get a less heavy sentence, or find other workarounds around the law when justice should be about firstly getting the truth, and then determining judgment. Today, the fact that prisons are full deters judges from sending guilty people to prison also. Important evidence sometimes isn’t made available until the last minute, or isn’t disclosed at all.

No mention from you of the causes of unlawful behavior? No taking into account social circumstances, education, poverty? Just keep shoveling 'em into the calaboose?

You and I are on different moral planets.

You say the law should be "governed by express principles requiring decency, respect and inclusion, fairness and reciprocity, emphasis on education and equal opportunity, we might get somewhere." but these are all things that the Law of Yahweh does, starting with but not limited to, the Ten Commandments.

That's simply (and rather thoroughly) untrue. Instead the Law tells you how you may bonk your slaves, when and how you can sell your daughter, on and on.

But we live in the 21st century.

 

[sojourner]

What did the Messiah stand for?

Right relationship.

Because Yahshua kept the Sabbath Day

Not always.

Or do you feel that Yahshua would preach a no-law doctrine?

You said that, not me.

This was right at the beginning of his ministry. Yahshua was a Rabbi. He taught the Law of Yahweh

Because Jesus was Judaic, teaching other Judaics. But Jesus knew what the Law of Yahweh was. and it had little to do with what’s written on a scroll.

By keeping the seventh day Sabbath we are witnessing that Yahweh created in six literal days and rested on the 7th

As I said, we don’t torture the texts so literalistically. We follow science. If you believe in a six literal days, then you must also follow the literal reckoning that the cosmos is not millions of years old. Or do you depart from that understanding when it suits your purposes?

Only one day was blessed and only one day was hallowed

And for us, it’s the first day.

If you don't want to be blessed or hallowed, that that's your prerogative

I’m confident that all people of good faith are just fine.

Firstly, have you ever studied in to the ressurrection? Yahshua wasn't ressurrected on the Sunday

Yeah, I’m afraid I’ve gotten both barrels in graduate studies.

what right does that give anyone to change the day of rest?

Jesus gave all authority to his disciples.

My point was that Yahweh would not choose to set aside the Sabbath when it has so much benefits for man both mind, body and spiritually

Christians are taught the importance of self-care. those of good faith practice it.

The last time I checked, most Chr-stians don't keep a seventh-day Sabbath

Last time I checked, we don’t have to.

You've got a problem on your hands when you deny a literal Sabbath Day.

We’re not doing that.

 

[sojourner]

As I have said, the seventh day is recognized by Chr-stians and Jews to be Saturday

And who authorized that understanding? God? Where does the Bible say God did that?

 

[sojourner]

If you don't love Yahweh, you won't keep the seventh day Sabbath

We do keep Sabbath. The first day — the day of Resurrection. As prescribed by those who speak for Jesus.

But more importantly, Yahshua said the whole law hangs on these commandments. He didn't say these laws replace the commandments of Yahweh. So my question to you is, remind me, what laws are Chr-stians required to keep?

Those that create and affirm right relationship.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Not exactly. You really need to read Paul.

Oh, I thought you did not have a Bible handy. Seems like picking those parts you like and ignoring the rest.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It is interesting how you completely ignore every attempt at getting you to show through scripture which day of the week is the sabbath.

And yet, here you are judging people over it then hiding behind Yahweh when called out about the judging.

In my opinion, it is very clear that God rested on the SEVENTH day and He blessed that day. Now, it is certainly possible that over the thousands of years that have passed, the exact day has been lost. However you should observe whatever day you truly believe is the SEVENTH day. Could that be Monday or Thursday? Maybe. But most Christians say that the sabbath has been changed to the FIRST day of the week. That is where the big problem comes in. If you truly think you are observing the SEVENTH day then you may have an excuse but if you fully admit that you are observing the FIRST day of the week then you are not following what God said everyone should follow.

 

[sojourner]

Hi TrueBeliever37. Good evening. The New Covenant is described in Jeremiah 31:31. In verse 33 it says: "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people. " The Law is integral to the New Covenant, but it is internalized. So what you are saying about the laws being done away with is not accurate.

No. That’s not the New Covenant.

 

[Batya]

No. That’s not the New Covenant.

And how is that not the new covenant?