Why do so many accept that Genesis is fictional, but believe Exodus is historical?

[Nada]

I could do it in like 20 minutes. Would you like me to prove I'm related to Hercules by listing a family tree? I can add dates and places... though maybe it would take me an hour then since I'll need to look some up.

Yeah..Lol..Please do.Lol....Go right ahead .Lol....

 

[JerryL]

Yeah..Lol..Please do.Lol....Go right ahead .Lol....

If I get bored. An hour is a lot of my time for something uninteresting.

Though the steps are pretty straight forward. List my linage back as far as I know it, figure out how many generations before that I need to go, and start making up names.

Dates (which are not there in the Bible) I can make up the same way.

See Lord of the Rings for some great examples.

 

[Nada]

If I get bored. An hour is a lot of my time for something uninteresting.

Though the steps are pretty straight forward. List my linage back as far as I know it, figure out how many generations before that I need to go, and start making up names.

Dates (which are not there in the Bible) I can make up the same way.

See Lord of the Rings for some great examples.

Ok Jerry.Ok...........

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

If there's no evidence that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, and no evidence that the plagues happened, I would argue that it's unlikely that this guy you mention was close enough to being Moses to really matter for these purposes. That's not to say he couldn't be the inspiration for some part of the Moses character, and that could be a really interesting topic, but at some point it's like Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter.

True enough

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Re: historical basis. Consider that there were bedouin-like nomads who may have been worshipping YHWH in Egypt, and you might see how an oral tradition would incorporate that experience and later be compiled and edited to fit into a cultic narrative.

The only thing like that verifiable that I'm aware of is the much later temple to Yahweh at Elephantine, which was during the exile, and was made up of the community of Jews that Jeremiah condemned for seeking refuge from Egypt. What's interesting is Yahweh seems to have had a consort at Elephantine: Anath-Yahu. Could this be the queen of heaven from the pre-exilic royal cult?

 

[sojourner]

There is absolute nothing in the archaeological record to indicate that a large number of Hebrews was ever in Egypt, that those people were slaves, or that a large number of people traveled across Sinai and invaded Canaan. Nothing. Period.

 

[Pegg]

Here’s the core story in Exodus - is there any reason to believe a single word of it?

----

Over a relatively short period of time, Egypt is hit by a number of disasters. Not just one city, but essentially all of Egypt. The Nile and other sources of water turn to blood. Frogs, lice, and flies swarm everywhere. The livestock die, everyone is covered in boils. Flaming hail destroys the crops as well as any unlucky Egyptians who were out and about, and then whatever reserves are left get eaten by a massive swarm of locusts. Then, everything goes black for three days. The entire country, cloaked in darkness for three whole days. Nobody has any food - the fishing trade has been ruined by the river of blood, the livestock are dead from disease, the crops have been burned or devoured. Many have died. They can’t really do anything about this since it’s pitch black. Throughout all this the large population of slaves is seemingly untouched by the disasters, and the Egyptians now become enamored of them and heap them with presents.

Then all the first born in the country die - again, not these slaves - which is a whole lot of people. Not just that, but it’s the ones that were in many cases being prepared to be the head of the household. The slaves leave along with many others, and this isn’t a handful of people. Being extremely generous with the estimates for the overall population of Egypt and extremely conservative with the estimates of the exodus it’s still about a quarter of the population that up and walks out. A huge caravan, probably a hundred miles long, winds its way out of Egypt - across a sea that suddenly parts for them. The Egyptian army follows, and all are swallowed by the Red Sea and killed.

----

So the Egyptians have lost their army, their firstborn, their livestock, and a quarter of their population on top of all the deaths. Everyone far and wide would be aware of this level of disaster, not to mention the entire country being covered in darkness for three days. And yet - somehow - this is only recorded in the Bible and this horrifically shattered country continues to expand in prosperity as if nothing happened.

Obviously the ideal thing to find would be something that was a contemporary source telling the story from the other side, but I’m not suggesting that the bar is set that high. We could also look at the archaeology and find evidence of the firestorm, or of the massive population drop. We could find references from other local cultures claiming credit for their gods. We could find an otherwise unexplained period in Egypt’s history where they seemed to suffer some large setback. We could find the remains of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea. And so on.

Instead, the best that can be offered up is that there are signs of Egyptian influence on the Israelites. Well, yes. That’s not exactly surprising, Egypt was a pretty big deal and they were neighbors. In fact it’s incredibly likely that groups from Egypt merged with the existing population in Canaan and brought some cultural influence with them. This doesn’t actually lend additional credibility to the Egyptian captivity, the plagues, or the exodus itself.

The Israelites weren’t slaves in Egypt, and the plagues never happened. The whole story is news to the Egyptians, who continued to flourish and grow - read a history of Egypt, and look for anywhere you can shoehorn in such a horrible series of events during the correct era.

And yet… this is taken as historical by even those who don’t believe the Old Testament is all literally true. Why?

meanwhile, floor of the red sea is found to be littered with ancient egyptian war chariots...

But of course these things never happened, sure, right.

Hmmmmm

 

[Baron Fulmen]

meanwhile, floor of the red sea is found to be littered with ancient egyptian war chariots...

But of course these things never happened, sure, right.

Hmmmmm

Do you have a source for that claim?

 

[Iti oj]

snopes.com: Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea

 

[sojourner]

snopes.com: Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea

Killed that thread real quick.

 

[Iti oj]

Killed that thread real quick.

I drop revelation bombs so hard people get stunned.

 

[Estro Felino]

well...I believe that both Genesis and Exodus are fictional and I'm Christian

 

[Imaginary_Friends]

The holy scriptures gives us detailed accounts including names,dates ,places etc.. There is no way they made all of that up.You have family trees with all of their names and dates when they were born.You can see all of the family members and who they derived from over the years.It is specific.That would be one heck of a task to put together such a masterpiece as the holy scriptures over a long period of time like that and fake it. It is very real but many do not understand or do not want to believe.

Looks like you have your work cut out for you...

Here’s the core story in Exodus - is there any reason to believe a single word of it?

So the Egyptians have lost their army, their firstborn, their livestock, and a quarter of their population on top of all the deaths. Everyone far and wide would be aware of this level of disaster, not to mention the entire country being covered in darkness for three days. And yet - somehow - this is only recorded in the Bible and this horrifically shattered country continues to expand in prosperity as if nothing happened.

You left out the part that God hardened the pharaohs heart so he wouldn't let the proto-jews go, that's why he caused these calamities.

They believe that and that he is a God of love.... not sure which aspect is more disturbing?

 

[Imaginary_Friends]

well...I believe that both Genesis and Exodus are fictional and I'm Christian

How is that possible? If Genesis is fictional then there was no Garden of Eden. No Eden , no original sin, no original sin, no need for a savior, no savior no Jesus. You've falsified your own religion.

 

[Nada]

Looks like you have your work cut out for you...

You left out the part that God hardened the pharaohs heart so he wouldn't let the proto-jews go, that's why he caused these calamities.

They believe that and that he is a God of love.... not sure which aspect is more disturbing?

What work?

 

[sojourner]

How is that possible? If Genesis is fictional then there was no Garden of Eden. No Eden , no original sin, no original sin, no need for a savior, no savior no Jesus. You've falsified your own religion.

Fail. According to Xy, we are still in need of reconciliation, even without original sin.

 

[Ingledsva]

It resembles selective hearing, doesn't it! How one could follow a book filled with supernatural fairytales and take it for the truth is a hard thing to grasp! It even implies magic to be real. And don't get me started on what a sadistic deity he actually is..

Funny video.

I've listed that "YHVH hardened Pharaoh's heart" verse before, pointing out that it makes YHVH a sadistic torturer, and murderer of the innocent. People get upset.

*

 

[Estro Felino]

How is that possible? If Genesis is fictional then there was no Garden of Eden. No Eden , no original sin, no original sin, no need for a savior, no savior no Jesus. You've falsified your own religion.

yes...I'm Pelagian...so a Heretic, at least officially. but the thread is about Christianity and I am a Christian.
as you said, there is no original sin. Jesus is not a savior

 

[Ingledsva]

snopes.com: Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea

Yep! Totally false. I studied Archaeology, and no such hoard has been found.

*

 

[sooda]

Here’s the core story in Exodus - is there any reason to believe a single word of it?

----

Over a relatively short period of time, Egypt is hit by a number of disasters. Not just one city, but essentially all of Egypt. The Nile and other sources of water turn to blood. Frogs, lice, and flies swarm everywhere. The livestock die, everyone is covered in boils. Flaming hail destroys the crops as well as any unlucky Egyptians who were out and about, and then whatever reserves are left get eaten by a massive swarm of locusts. Then, everything goes black for three days. The entire country, cloaked in darkness for three whole days. Nobody has any food - the fishing trade has been ruined by the river of blood, the livestock are dead from disease, the crops have been burned or devoured. Many have died. They can’t really do anything about this since it’s pitch black. Throughout all this the large population of slaves is seemingly untouched by the disasters, and the Egyptians now become enamored of them and heap them with presents.

Then all the first born in the country die - again, not these slaves - which is a whole lot of people. Not just that, but it’s the ones that were in many cases being prepared to be the head of the household. The slaves leave along with many others, and this isn’t a handful of people. Being extremely generous with the estimates for the overall population of Egypt and extremely conservative with the estimates of the exodus it’s still about a quarter of the population that up and walks out. A huge caravan, probably a hundred miles long, winds its way out of Egypt - across a sea that suddenly parts for them. The Egyptian army follows, and all are swallowed by the Red Sea and killed.

----

So the Egyptians have lost their army, their firstborn, their livestock, and a quarter of their population on top of all the deaths. Everyone far and wide would be aware of this level of disaster, not to mention the entire country being covered in darkness for three days. And yet - somehow - this is only recorded in the Bible and this horrifically shattered country continues to expand in prosperity as if nothing happened.

Obviously the ideal thing to find would be something that was a contemporary source telling the story from the other side, but I’m not suggesting that the bar is set that high. We could also look at the archaeology and find evidence of the firestorm, or of the massive population drop. We could find references from other local cultures claiming credit for their gods. We could find an otherwise unexplained period in Egypt’s history where they seemed to suffer some large setback. We could find the remains of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea. And so on.

Instead, the best that can be offered up is that there are signs of Egyptian influence on the Israelites. Well, yes. That’s not exactly surprising, Egypt was a pretty big deal and they were neighbors. In fact it’s incredibly likely that groups from Egypt merged with the existing population in Canaan and brought some cultural influence with them. This doesn’t actually lend additional credibility to the Egyptian captivity, the plagues, or the exodus itself.

The Israelites weren’t slaves in Egypt, and the plagues never happened. The whole story is news to the Egyptians, who continued to flourish and grow - read a history of Egypt, and look for anywhere you can shoehorn in such a horrible series of events during the correct era.

And yet… this is taken as historical by even those who don’t believe the Old Testament is all literally true. Why?

No.. they were related to the Canaanites and the Syrians. No relationship to the Hittites.

There's no support that the Jews were ever slaves in Egypt. It's not even terribly similar to how slavery generally existed in Egypt.

More likely: the Jews were a sect among the Hittites and are descended from them.