InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Because a logical non Muslim, agrees, not all hadithes are false or true. We have to go, case by case. If that is called cherry picking, so, be it.
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Why do some Atheists, Christians, Hindu's etc., believe in Islamic ahadith so passionately?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
firedragon
Veteran Member
You did not understand the question or the OP. Maybe I have not articulated properly.
ecco
Veteran Member
Speaking for myself - yeah.
Why would anyone believe in something for which there was no evidence?
Do you believe in psychic snowflakes?
ecco
Veteran Member
The broader question is "Where did gods come from?"
The answer clearly is: Man's Imaginings.
ecco
Veteran Member
Just how do you see that truth manifesting itself?
Do we spend years of study only to find that our version of truth is shared by other Muslims and, at the same time, rejected by many other Muslims?
Do we go by the actions of the believers? The actions of various Muslims are as varied as those of any other religious beliefs.
You have your beliefs and you choose to understand them as truth. They aren't truth any more than the beliefs of billions of other people are truth.
Augustus
…
That you've completely misunderstood the OP is obvious
Tbf, everyone else insisting it didn't happen has completely misunderstood it too which is why they find it so hard to believe.
If you all understood it, you'd understand why it's a completely unremarkable claim that quite obviously happens frequently on RF and many other places.
ecco
Veteran Member
What non-Muslim would say "I believe this Hadith is absolutely true because Muslims said so"?
That is just ridiculous. Perhaps you can give an actual example.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Very good. It is absolutely ridiculous.
ecco
Veteran Member
What's to misunderstand? The conversation portrayed in the OP is not realistic. Once that is understood, there is no reason for further analysis.
ecco
Veteran Member
Sarcasm is often used to avoid actually having to respond honestly.
I've highlighted a part in red that you avoided. Care to try again?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Nope. Cannot. Ciao.
Augustus
…
Quite a bit to misunderstand apparently
What you think the OP says is not realistic, I agree. What the OP is really discussing happens frequently, for example here:
Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?
Boo! So many people are complaining about the bad writing of the scene in the original post lol. This skit sucks! Its actually how I feel about some of the Hadith even, straight up bad writing and unrealistic dialogue and interactions! Nothing about the Hadith was very convincing to me, and more over, I didn't want to believe it, I didn't want to believe that something as profound and wonderful seeming to me as the Qur'an should be forced or tied to something as backwards and idiotic as some of the tales coming out of the Hadith collections, which do nothing to make one faithful, but even seem to make a mockery of Allah. That is why the people who hate Islam also love those books, because it gives them ammunition to make Muslims look foolish, and they say "See? See what you are supposed to believe in? How ridiculous, HA, Ha, ha", and "See? See what a nasty man Muhammed was? You follow a NastiMan, HA, Ha, ha".
That is what it all amounts to. Many Muslims are fine though with the Hadiths and defending them all or a great many of them, believing strongly in Bukhari and Muslim after it (for the Sunni) and the Shia with their Hadith collections.
So even the tactic of the people who hate Islam is pretty pointless and weak, doesn't really do much, since there are people sticking to the Hadith happily, there are those who reject the Hadith and are still pretty much entirely practicing Muslims who stick to the Qur'an, there are even some who are practicing Muslims who turn the Qur'an into non-literal symbolic text, and then there are even Bahai people doing similar practices, believing similar things mainly, basically a kind of Muslim. So the ones who are wasting their time are the kaffirs (non-believers) who hate Islam and spend their days reading Hadiths they may or may not personally believe in as true or real but want to use to spread hate and make people leave their religions, but achieve practically nothing.
That is what it all amounts to. Many Muslims are fine though with the Hadiths and defending them all or a great many of them, believing strongly in Bukhari and Muslim after it (for the Sunni) and the Shia with their Hadith collections.
So even the tactic of the people who hate Islam is pretty pointless and weak, doesn't really do much, since there are people sticking to the Hadith happily, there are those who reject the Hadith and are still pretty much entirely practicing Muslims who stick to the Qur'an, there are even some who are practicing Muslims who turn the Qur'an into non-literal symbolic text, and then there are even Bahai people doing similar practices, believing similar things mainly, basically a kind of Muslim. So the ones who are wasting their time are the kaffirs (non-believers) who hate Islam and spend their days reading Hadiths they may or may not personally believe in as true or real but want to use to spread hate and make people leave their religions, but achieve practically nothing.
Quite a bit to misunderstand apparently
What you think the OP says is not realistic, I agree. What the OP is really discussing happens frequently, for example here:
Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?
Phew! I thought so too, but the examples I provided weren't satisfactory enough it seemed, maybe this one you provided will work to demonstrate what happens very frequently online!
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
So what is right and wrong in the sense of morality and/or ethics?
You may want to ask the Prophet of Right and Wrong, he is currently online and in this thread:
Is there any punishment in Islam for breaking a wife's arm?
He might be fun for you to engage with and find out from a person who thinks they have a "New Cult, A Religion of Common Sense".
There seems to be no real way to clearly determine what is actually right and wrong unfortunately! It all comes down to what we want, what we feel like, and violently opposing what we dislike for whatever reason! Whoever or whatever has the most violence and violent or disrupting consequences, seems to win the battle of "right and wrong" among the humans! Orc Law!
ecco
Veteran Member
That is not at all surprising. Why bother to start a thread that is so transparently based on a false narrative?
firedragon
Veteran Member
I think you have got your answer by someone else.
And of course, as expected you are working really hard to create an opportunity to make ad hominem fallacies.
ecco
Veteran Member
Quite a bit to misunderstand apparently
What you think the OP says is not realistic, I agree. What the OP is really discussing happens frequently, for example here:
Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?
I'm not going to follow a link you posted to a thread and then look through the thread to support the OP's premise. He had ample opportunity to do that himself. He didn't.