Why do some believe easily, others hardly at all?

[mikkel_the_dane]

There are also 2 kinds of believers. When you get out of the house and don't see your car, you are certain to have left it there and you contemplate it having been magically teleported elsewhere, you are a True Believer™. If you think it has been stolen and you only contemplate magic when it fits your special kind of religion or philosophy, you are just making exceptions for special arbitrary cases.
True Believers™ are likely not able to live a normal life.

Well, the True Believers in the objective, physical, natural world as the only real world are no different in effect, because they in effect always end up claiming objective morality.

 

[Colt]

Your implied argument that a god is equivalent to mathematics and love because none can be weighed is flawed. It's not about weighing abstractions, which are ideas generated by material brains. It's about the ontological status of the referents from which they were derived. Love is the name for all of that activity one sees where one organism protects and shares with another in the support and promotion of its welfare. No, you can't weight that, either, but you can observe it through the material senses. Likewise with abstract mathematical concepts like twoness or circularity, which are abstracted from observing physical pairs of things and round things.

But what is this idea of a god abstracted from? Nothing. It's a creation of the imagination. It refers to an imagined entity with no apparent physical referent or manifestation. You don't grandfather God into reality by noting that it is as weightless as love and mathematics. So are vampires and leprechauns. Like gods, you can't weigh them. Unlike love and mathematics, there is nothing out there to point to corresponding with the idea. Is it proper to call them abstractions rather than just figments of imagination if they weren't abstracted from external reality?

The abiogenesis-spark-God is a creation of the imagination of the unbeliever.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The abiogenesis spark-God is a creation of the imagination of the unbeliever.

Yeah, it is ontologically so false that all these post you answer to are not at all happening in any real sense. It is all in your mind and you are the world. That is how false this post is.

 

[Colt]

Yeah, it is ontologically so false that all these post you answer to are not at all happening in any real sense. It is all in your mind and you are the world. That is how false this post is.

More defiance for the sake of it! I'm dialoging with very real human children of the Living God who may not realize that they are sons of God. The theory of abiogenesis is truly a comforting book of Genesis for the materialist.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

More defiance for the sake of it! I'm dialoging with very real human children of the Living God who may not realize that they are sons of God. The theory of abiogenesis is truly a comforting book of Genesis for the materialist.

Well, She told me it differently. And I am not a materialist, nor an atheist.

 

[Alien826]

The actual language used should not be a problem as it is just language describing a phenomenon, as we might say that the sun rises and sets.
As for the sun slowing and stopping and speeding up again (or the earth doing that in it's rotation) I would say that God is able to do that without a problem.
The earth spins at about 1000 mph at the equator and if for example it was slowed by 10mph every minute that would mean it would take about an hour and a half to stop. Then after a time it could speed up at the same rate. (or deceleration and acceleration like that which would leave the sun in a section of the sky for a while.) Certainly to slow down and speed up at that rate (10 mph/minute) is not something that people will notice readily)
Who knows, maybe God achieved it by spinning the universe around the earth for a day or by setting up huge mirrors in the sky so that the sun appeared to stand still. We are talking about God here.

Well, if you invoke "god" who can do anything, that wins every time, or at least stops the discussion.

What I am talking about is the energy contained in momentum versus the ability of the matter that the Earth contains to "stick together". Stopping the Earth's rotation other than by tiny decrements would literally cause the earth to shatter. And also anything not tied down would fly off the Earth, and that would include Joshua, his army and his enemies. What God would have to do is apply the slowing forces to each molecule individually. Then the same to the Moon, and store all this energy somewhere so he could reapply it to reverse the process. I have a feeling that the rest of the Solar system might have to involved, but I'm not sure how far the effect would reach.*

All this to avoid having to string up a couple of floodlights! (Just saw your idea about mirrors, sorry). Seriously though, isn't it more likely that this was just a legend that grew up after the battle?

(*Anyone who can and wants to do the math, please correct me as appropriate).

 

[Brian2]

Well, if you invoke "god" who can do anything, that wins every time, or at least stops the discussion.

What I am talking about is the energy contained in momentum versus the ability of the matter that the Earth contains to "stick together". Stopping the Earth's rotation other than by tiny decrements would literally cause the earth to shatter. And also anything not tied down would fly off the Earth, and that would include Joshua, his army and his enemies. What God would have to do is apply the slowing forces to each molecule individually. Then the same to the Moon, and store all this energy somewhere so he could reapply it to reverse the process. I have a feeling that the rest of the Solar system might have to involved, but I'm not sure how far the effect would reach.*

All this to avoid having to string up a couple of floodlights! (Just saw your idea about mirrors, sorry). Seriously though, isn't it more likely that this was just a legend that grew up after the battle?

(*Anyone who can and wants to do the math, please correct me as appropriate).

I don't think things would fly off the earth at the deceleration and acceleration I suggested. I don't know about the earth falling apart. But we are talking about a miracle so invoking God should be no problem.
I wonder if a system could be set up to remove rotational momentum from the earth and give it to the moon and then do it in reverse.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't think things would fly off the earth at the deceleration and acceleration I suggested. I don't know about the earth falling apart. But we are talking about a miracle so invoking God should be no problem.
I wonder if a system could be set up to remove rotational momentum from the earth and give it to the moon and then do it in reverse.

Well, in the end for objective reality and God, the fact of the everyday world is that I can do God differently.

 

[Audie]

I don't think things would fly off the earth at the deceleration and acceleration I suggested. I don't know about the earth falling apart. But we are talking about a miracle so invoking God should be no problem.
I wonder if a system could be set up to remove rotational momentum from the earth and give it to the moon and then do it in reverse.

Why bother with physics?
You want to say goddidit, miracle,
so that's it.
Same works for the so called " flood".
Pure miracle.

God created the Xtra waterm then wafted
it to Neptune. Where, I'm told. It shines to
this day as a warning beacon against incoming
rogue angels.
After the water was gone, this " god"
cleaned up the mess, leaving no evidence
that there'd ever been a flood.
That is fantasy.

There's fantasy, and there's physics.

Making up fantasy physics as you are doing
is silly and unnecessary.

All you need is Faith that your personally chosen
reading from your personally chosen religion
is the Truth, " god" did whatever you choose
to believe / make up.

And you are done, the Winner!

You've achieved self deception,
and fooled yourself!
Not a big win, as "self" is always the
easiest to fool.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Why bother with physics?
You want to say goddidit, miracle,
so that's it.
Same works for the so called " flood".
Pure miracle.

God created the Xtra waterm then wafted
it to Neptune. Where, I'm told. It shines to
this day as a warning beacon against incoming
rogue angels.
After the watervwas gone, this " god"
cleaned up the mess, leaving no evidence
that there'd ever been a flood.
That is fantasy.

There's fantasy, and there's physics.

Making up fantasy physics as you are doing
is silly and unnecessary.

All you need is Faith that your personally chosen
reading from your personally chosen religion
is the Truth, " god" did whatever you choose
to believe / make up.

And you are done, the Winner!

Yeah, don't confuse physics, social and mental. But that still takes training.

 

[Brian2]

Why bother with physics?
You want to say goddidit, miracle,
so that's it.
Same works for the so called " flood".
Pure miracle.

God created the Xtra waterm then wafted
it to Neptune. Where, I'm told. It shines to
this day as a warning beacon against incoming
rogue angels.
After the water was gone, this " god"
cleaned up the mess, leaving no evidence
that there'd ever been a flood.
That is fantasy.

There's fantasy, and there's physics.

Making up fantasy physics as you are doing
is silly and unnecessary.

All you need is Faith that your personally chosen
reading from your personally chosen religion
is the Truth, " god" did whatever you choose
to believe / make up.

And you are done, the Winner!

You've achieved self deception,
and fooled yourself!
Not a big win, as "self" is always the
easiest to fool.

Maybe God just turned the universe around the earth instead of stopping the earth.
How about big mirrors in the sky that reflected the sun the sun and earth just kept going as per usual.
But if you think self is always the easiest to fool then maybe Joshua just fooled himself into thinking that the sun did not set that day.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Maybe God just turned the universe around the earth instead of stopping the earth.
How about big mirrors in the sky that reflected the sun the sun and earth just kept going as per usual.
But if you think self is always the easiest to fool then maybe Joshua just fooled himself into thinking that the sun did not set that day.

And maybe I am the True Messenger and you will burn in Hell. Maybe, just maybe.

 

[Alien826]

Maybe God just turned the universe around the earth instead of stopping the earth.

That wouldn't do anything, as it's the relationship of the Earth to the Sun that matters. Mirrors are a lot easier, agreed.

Hey, I just thought. Maybe Joshua didn't realize that PST (Palestinian Summer Time) had started that day.

Ready to call a friendly halt on this? I am.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Maybe God just turned the universe around the earth instead of stopping the earth.
How about big mirrors in the sky that reflected the sun the sun and earth just kept going as per usual.
But if you think self is always the easiest to fool then maybe Joshua just fooled himself into thinking that the sun did not set that day.

I guess anything is possible when you can invoke magic.
Of course, it doesn't provide an actual explanation though.

In this magical God world you imagine, we should see the laws of physics being suspended randomly, all over the place, all the time. How come we don't see this? We can only seem to find it in ancient mythical texts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I guess anything is possible when you can invoke magic.
Of course, it doesn't provide an actual explanation though.

In this magical God world you imagine, we should see the laws of physics being suspended randomly, all over the place, all the time. How come we don't see this? We can only seem to find it in ancient mythical texts.

Well, a common one is that a definition of a word makes the referent a fact.

 

[Audie]

Maybe God just turned the universe around the earth instead of stopping the earth.
How about big mirrors in the sky that reflected the sun the sun and earth just kept going as per usual.
But if you think self is always the easiest to fool then maybe Joshua just fooled himself into thinking that the sun did not set that day.

It's all good theology. Making things up, that is.
It's all there ever has been, whatever the tall tale.

 

[Brian2]

I guess anything is possible when you can invoke magic.
Of course, it doesn't provide an actual explanation though.

Joshua commanded it and he must have had faith that it God would do it. That answers the question "why".
Joshua 10:12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[b] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

In this magical God world you imagine, we should see the laws of physics being suspended randomly, all over the place, all the time. How come we don't see this? We can only seem to find it in ancient mythical texts.

I hear of it happening these days also. I believe the ancient texts and the reports of it happening these days. You disbelieve both.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yet another post by a member asking whether they believe so-and-so (and of course admitting that they do) led me to ask myself why is it I find it so difficult to believe claims without evidence, while others appear to accept almost any claim absolutely uncritically.

I'm old enough to have been exposed to all the strange stuff: spontaneous human combustion, ghosts, religion (of every kind), conspiracy theories, Elvis-lives, auras, astral travel, psychokenesis, ESP, parapsychology, alien abductions (usually with penetrating body probes!), yeti and sasquatch and chupacabra, Edgar Cayce, resurrections (of Christ and many others), YEC, -- oh, my this list could go on forever. Humans have believed (and do believe) so many strange things.

But what I've noticed is this: there seemn to be people (like me, and other skeptics and critical thinkers in the Forum) who find it difficult to near-impossible to believe strange claims for which we see no real evidence ---- but there are others who seem predisposed, almost programmed, to believe almost anything at all, no matter how unlikely.

Michael Shermer wrote a book called "Why Do People Believe Weird Things" and it got a pretty good reception -- but only from the usual skeptical thinkers. The "Woo" crowd hated it.

Why is it, do you think, that some people are willing to believe pretty much anything, while others hold out for evidence?

Fear and insecurity.

 

[Audie]

Joshua commanded it and he must have had faith that it God would do it. That answers the question "why".
Joshua 10:12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[b] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.



I hear of it happening these days also. I believe the ancient texts and the reports of it happening these days. You disbelieve both.

Some people believe those Nigerian scams.

Gullible people believe the unbelievable.

I've a friend who worked in a bank. It was
not unusual to notice someone getting scammed.
They'd do their best to stop the person, explain
the scam, but some just couldn't be convinced.

Interesting pstchology there.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Joshua commanded it and he must have had faith that it God would do it. That answers the question "why".
Joshua 10:12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[b] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

An explanation would address the "how."
The "why" part is just part of the unsubstantiated story.

If the sun "stood" still and the "moon stopped", earth would be in a ton of trouble, by the way. I'm sure you'll just explain that away with more magic.

I hear of it happening these days also. I believe the ancient texts and the reports of it happening these days. You disbelieve both.

Where do we see the laws of physics being suspended "these days?"
Stories in old books aren't evidence of such things happening. They are claims.