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Why do some believe easily, others hardly at all?

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
There are many theories (explanations) in the social sciences that can be relevant to any given set of behaviors. Its be years since I read about this and would have to go back and review. If you are skeptical of the studies im curious why?

No, I just happen to know that there is more than cognitive theory in psychology. So for you to Know how I must cope, you have made a clinical assessment of me and have decided based on all the different schools of psychology and relevant different theories that you Know what is the best for me.
Remind me again, what is your degree in psychology?

Further if you are indeed an actual psychologist, then I have to report you for doing an incorrect diagnosis of me. You have never actually met me, interviewed me or tested me so you have breached the ethical rules as a psychologist.

So F1fan, please stop doing this. What you do is ethically incorrect and if I catch you doing this one more time here on this forum I am going to report you. Do you understand me?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
No, I just happen to know that there is more than cognitive theory in psychology. So for you to Know how I must cope, you have made a clinical assessment of me and have decided based on all the different schools of psychology and relevant different theories that you Know what is the best for me.
Remind me again, what is your degree in psychology?
No, you have posted your need to believe in a god to cope yourself. I made no diagnosis. But your testimony is consistent with other believers who do use belief in religion and religious concepts to offset anxiety and uncertainty. I noted patterns of behavior in a thread that is discussing why people believe in non-rational ideas.
Further if you are indeed an actual psychologist, then I have to report you for doing an incorrect diagnosis of me. You have never actually met me, interviewed me or tested me so you have breached the ethical rules as a psychologist.
I never claimed to be a clinical psychologist, just that my time in college was for a masters in health psychology. This division of psychology does a heavy emphasis on coping since it includes end of life care.
So F1fan, please stop doing this. What you do is ethically incorrect and if I catch you doing this one more time here on this forum I am going to report you. Do you understand me?
I didn't do what you believed I was doing.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
No, you have posted your need to believe in a god to cope yourself. I made no diagnosis. But your testimony is consistent with other believers who do use belief in religion and religious concepts to offset anxiety and uncertainty. I noted patterns of behavior in a thread that is discussing why people believe in non-rational ideas.

I never claimed to be a clinical psychologist, just that my time in college was for a masters in health psychology. This division of psychology does a heavy emphasis on coping since it includes end of life care.

I didn't do what you believed I was doing.

Okay, so tell me more. How does my anxiety and uncertainty actually show itself to you?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
You ended your previous post asking me to “stop”, and now you change your mind? I suggest you take time and investigate your thinking habits yourself.

No, you have a valid point and I changed my mind, because I reconsidered my position. I was wrong and learned from that. Is that what science is about?
You convinced me that there might be a chance that you were on to something, I hadn't considered and thus I could change for the better.
Isn't that a part of being rational?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
why is it I find it so difficult to believe claims without evidence, while others appear to accept almost any claim absolutely uncritically.
I had an insight recently following the vaccine discussions, when I kept reading, "That's just your opinion" regarding facts easily deduced from available data. And such people call themselves critical thinkers. What I realized is that they don't know what critical thinking is or can do. We were all like that once as children, and we pretty much believed anything from a trusted source by faith.

Apart from experience, through which we learned where to find things in the house or what TV shows we like, our beliefs only came by that single, uncritical method, and we knew of no other way of knowing. Huge numbers of people never advance beyond that, especially those indoctrinated with the idea that belief by faith was a virtue prized by God, and the wisdom of the world (education) is foolishness. Those people have learned that reason and evidence are prized by others, and so have adopted the language, but don't really understand what they're saying, as when I read "My faith is based in evidence."

The insight was that they believe this, and that all thinking is like theirs, which is basically guessing what you prefer to be true and saying that it is. It's from that perspective that they say, "That's just your opinion" to facts. They can't recognize that the opinion is factual, so it's just another opinion, making all opinions equal. And you know the name of that phenomenon - Dunning-Kruger. The insight was that such people don't have an elevated sense of their own mental ability as much as an unawareness that there is a better way to decide what is true about the world - empiricism.

You learned another way and its value in deciding what is true about the world, and with it, why the other method - belief by faith - was undesirable. Once you've seen that, you don't go back. It's like having some sorcerer's stone that can tell you which ideas are correct, the existence of which many if not most people are unaware.

Isn't that why we see creationists that know almost no science at all arguing with people educated in the sciences? They don't see that there is a difference between what they believe and what the others believe. It's all just somebody's opinion, and they see theirs as as good as any other.
Science cannot say that God did not or does not exist
Science has no need to rule gods out. Nobody does.
What's wrong with saying that God has always been there?
Doing what?
God does everything the natural way.
That's nature, not a god.
Not everything is falsifiable.
We don't benefit by thinking about unfalsifiable propositions. They can't be confirmed or disconfirmed, predict nothing, and are useful for nothing.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I had an insight recently following the vaccine discussions, when I kept reading, "That's just your opinion" regarding facts easily deduced from available data. And such people call themselves critical thinkers. What I realized is that they don't know what critical thinking is or can do. We were all like that once as children, and we pretty much believed anything from a trusted source by faith.

Apart from experience, through which we learned where to find things in the house or what TV shows we like, our beliefs only came by that single, uncritical method, and we knew of no other way of knowing. Huge numbers of people never advance beyond that, especially those indoctrinated with the idea that belief by faith was a virtue prized by God, and the wisdom of the world (education) is foolishness. Those people have learned that reason and evidence are prized by others, and so have adopted the language, but don't really understand what they're saying, as when I read "My faith is based in evidence."

The insight was that they believe this, and that all thinking is like theirs, which is basically guessing what you prefer to be true and saying that it is. It's from that perspective that they say, "That's just your opinion" to facts. They can't recognize that the opinion is factual, so it's just another opinion, making all opinions equal. And you know the name of that phenomenon - Dunning-Kruger. The insight was that such people don't have an elevated sense of their own mental ability as much as an unawareness that there is a better way to decide what is true about the world - empiricism.

You learned another way and its value in deciding what is true about the world, and with it, why the other method - belief by faith - was undesirable. Once you've seen that, you don't go back. It's like having some sorcerer's stone that can tell you which ideas are correct, the existence of which many if not most people are unaware.

Isn't that why we see creationists that know almost no science at all arguing with people educated in the sciences? They don't see that there is a difference between what they believe and what the others believe. It's all just somebody's opinion, and they see theirs as as good as any other.

Science has no need to rule gods out. Nobody does.

Doing what?

That's nature, not a god.

We don't benefit by thinking about unfalsifiable propositions. They can't be confirmed or disconfirmed, predict nothing, and are useful for nothing.
Nature is the habit of God,
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Nature is the habit of God,
If you'd really mean what you wrote there, you'd call yourself a deist and scientists would be your high priests because they figure out the minds of the gods.
But you believe in a god that is exactly the opposite, it's habit is to suspend the laws of nature.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
If you'd really mean what you wrote there, you'd call yourself a deist and scientists would be your high priests because they figure out the minds of the gods.
But you believe in a god that is exactly the opposite, it's habit is to suspend the laws of nature.
I don't believe in a God that suspends the laws of nature. So called scientist haven't figured out the mind of God and they didn't create nature, they just observe it.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Yea, and I am natural as God made it all, and I am a part of that in that I naturally think/feel differently than you. So when you claim that other people are wrong in effect, remember they are natural and from God
Not everyone can be right about everything.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Not everyone can be right about everything.

But the question is if anybody can be right about everything.
I mean for these 3 humans:
Person one: I am right about everything as Y and not Z.
Person two: I am right about everything as Z and not Y.
Me: Good for you. One of you apparently is wrong, so I just do wrong about everything and yet apparently all humans wrong about everything are still here.

I am wrong about everything, so what? Honestly, so what?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
But the question is if anybody can be right about everything.
I mean for these 3 humans:
Person one: I am right about everything as Y and not Z.
Person two: I am right about everything as Z and not Y.
Me: Good for you. One of you apparently is wrong, so I just do wrong about everything and yet apparently all humans wrong about everything are still here.

I am wrong about everything, so what? Honestly, so what?
Are you just argumentative and needing attention?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Are you just argumentative and needing attention?

No, I am so wrong, that I didn't even write this. I am already dead as I violate the physical reality as to some humans and already in Hell as to some humans. I am The Negative as Absolutely Wrong.
I am just paly with words and you are really not doing that, so that is that. ;)
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I don't believe in a God that suspends the laws of nature.
Oh, OK, I didn't perceive you as a deist from your posts. Or is it simply that you don't know enough about the laws of nature to decide when they must have been suspended in your mythology? (Just a few days ago someone wanted to tell me that Jesus could have walked on water without breaking the laws.)

So called scientist haven't figured out the mind of God and they didn't create nature, they just observe it.
Do priests in your religion (if you have anything like that) create nature?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Nature is the habit of God
I'd say it's more likely the other way around. What people call gods is what the atheist calls nature. For millennia, they have watched nature and viewed it as a stage in which gods played. The sun passed through the sky because of Apollo's chariot dragging it, and thunder and lightning represented the wrath of angry gods. The march of science has stripped these gods of any job to do, but the concept, however unnecessary now, lingers on.
I don't believe in a God that suspends the laws of nature.
Me, neither. What does your god do? What question do you think the existence of a god answers? Shouldn't we have a reason to posit the existence of something - something that it is thought to be responsible for causing? For example, the idea of dark matter arose to account for some observations about the structure of spiral galaxies and the structure of the cosmic web. Before then, the idea would have no utility. That's how I see gods - posited entities without a job.
So called scientist haven't figured out the mind of God and they didn't create nature, they just observe it.
What mind of god? The laws of nature? They're working on it. And why call that a mind?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I don't believe in a God that suspends the laws of nature.
Right, because there is no indication that it happens, nor that any of the many gods exist.
So called scientist haven't figured out the mind of God and they didn't create nature, they just observe it.
So calld scientists haven't figured out the mind of the Tooth Fairy either. Those so called scientists are not good good for anything, are they, except maybe a more effective toothpaste now and again.

Do you think science should use the Urantia Book as a reference book for their work? Do you think all science should be based on the UB?
 
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Colt

Well-Known Member
Oh, OK, I didn't perceive you as a deist from your posts. Or is it simply that you don't know enough about the laws of nature to decide when they must have been suspended in your mythology? (Just a few days ago someone wanted to tell me that Jesus could have walked on water without breaking the laws.)


Do priests in your religion (if you have anything like that) create nature?
I think Peter dreamt that Jesus waled on water and calmed the storm. He continued to believe that.

Nothing that God does is a miracle to God. Like God the Son becoming the person of Mary's baby at conception. God knows how its done.
 
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