Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You have still not addressed the Catholic church's many false doctrines that contradict scripture. Why would anyone want to join a church that gets it wrong on so many issues?
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Why do some Christians reject Baptism saves?
- Thread starter Dogknox20
- Start date
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Scriptures please...
Wildswanderer you are forced to REJECT the scriptures as LIES, to say what you do! Jesus established his "Holy CHURCH" as his authority on earth, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to GUIDE his CHURCH.. Not YOU.. When did Jesus make you the expert.. You believe the man made TRADITION of Faith ALONE!
Scriptures are "USEFUL" They are USEFUL for teaching, correcting training and rebuking! They are NOT ALONE!
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Church TEACHES! Church uses the Scriptures but NOT Alone!
The man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" is a lie! The TRADITION makes every person into a little pope an AUTHORITY on God and God' holy word!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Wildswanderer Jesus sent the Holy Spirit as his Guide FOREVER to his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church he established on ROCK before he ascended! The Holy Spirit arrived at Pentecost, the Holy Spirit remined to this day!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Christians have ALWAYS drank the living Jesus in the form of Blood!
John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Wildswanderer, The Apostles believed the teaching of Jesus.. They all ate the flesh of Jesus they drank his blood!
Judas was the first Protestant.. He did not believe the words of Jesus, he did not leave as the other people did he stayed with the Apostles as a believer!
John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
Judas is a hypocrite he says he believes but rejects the words of Jesus! Satan entered Judas as he ate the flesh of Jesus!
John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
1 Cor 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
Wildswanderer You cannot sin against a symbol! Judas CONDEMNED himself he rejected the words of Jesus but ate anyways.. He ate and drink damnation He was a Hypocrite claiming to be Christian by rejecting the words of God!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Okay I wait.. So far all I see is accusation! Jesus commissioned his Holy Church to TEACH all nations! The Holy Church teaches.. She uses the scriptures BUT not alone and only the scriptures!
She also uses Morals!
LOOK... The Catholics are RIGHTIOUS! They have Faith in Jesus they call Jesus "Lord" & they have works of the heart! They DO RIGHT!
The Protestant is a child of Satan they are NOT Righteous.. They have Faith just as the Catholic they also address Jesus as "Lord" but they have ONLY Faith they do NOTHING!
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Wildswanderer You cannot say "The Sheep were working their way into heaven".. They did not know they were doing anything for Jesus! (look above) they were doing works of the heart.. Faith PLUS LOVE save NOT Faith alone!
I add.. This is end times Jesus is depicted as Coming in Judgement.. Clearly scripture this is directed to the Man with Faith ALONE! It is pointing directly to you!
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You forgot this one:
"And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."
What has to be added to scripture? Nothing! It's all there. And of course the Holy Spirit inhabits scripture!
No protestants are denying that it's the Holy Spirit who saves through using the written words of God.
The traditions you follow are additions to scripture.
Praying to Mary?
Not found in Scripture.
Indulgences?
Not found in Scripture.
Kneeling before statues?
Condemned by the scripture!
The rosary?
Condemned by the scripture.
Infant baptism?
Not in Scripture.
Calling a person "Father" as a spiritual title?
Condemned by scripture.
Holding certain individuals up as Saints.
Not in scripture (all Christians are Saints)
Having certain priests?
Not in scripture. (We are all priests and only Christ is our high priest)
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
The purpose of taking communion is to commemorate and reflect on the sacrificial death of Jesus (Matthew 26:26–28). To do so without "discerning the body" brings judgment on the participant.
What does discerning the body mean?
The symbolic parallel to Christ's body in the elements of the bread and cup causes a Christian to see them as different from other food. In other words, the Lord's Supper should not be treated like just another meal used to satisfy physical hunger.
What judgment is possible when someone participates in the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner?
In context:
Some in Corinth were sick and others had died as part of God's judgment for participating in communion in an unworthy manner. That is: They had turned it into a gathering at which the wealthy ate and drank too much, leaving the poorer Christians hungry and humiliated.
It says nothing about salvation. Jesus said to participate in the Lord's supper as a way to remember him. He didn't say it contributed to salvation... that's yet another false Catholic doctrine.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I gave you a whole list of Catholic doctrine that are opposed by scripture. What are you waiting for?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Obviously you have never attended a protestant church. If you think they do nothing you might want to look up how many protestant churches contribute to helping people.
Top Protestant Nonprofits and Charities
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And you still haven't addressed the fact that you do not seemingly know that what you are generally dealing with are interpretations. The Catholic Church has been at this for almost 2000 years now, so how long have you and your denomination been doing this?
On top of this, you simply do not seem to understand Jesus' message that the love of God and neighbor is essential and that this is what we'll be judged on-- the Parable of the Sheep & Goats. Also, he warned us to "judge ye not". So, why do you keep ignoring what Jesus said and keep slipping into the anti-Catholic bigotry that I was taught to believe in myself?
Hey, here's a solution: if you hate the Church, which you obviously do, then maybe don't go, but then please just leave us alone, OK?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I'm not anti Catholic. I have a good friend who is Catholic. Doesn't mean I have to agree with the many false Catholic doctrines. I don't know if you noticed but this is a debate forum. Debating doctrine is what we do here... If you don't like it you can always go elsewhere.
We will be judged on whether we have accepted Christ by faith.
Yes, the reason these sheep in Matthew 25 are blessed to inherit the kingdom is because they responded to Jesus’ needs—feeding Him when He was hungry, giving Him drink when He was thirsty, clothing Him when He was in need of clothes, attending to Him when He was sick, and visiting Him in prison. Jesus proclaims: “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.”
But is this about entering heaven because of works?
There's a difference between entering the kingdom and inheriting the kingdom.
Possessing, owning, or ruling over” is the principal meaning of inheritance in the OT.... to inherit the kingdom is to obtain a reward for faithfulness to Christ.....based on the OT usage of inheritance, this reward refers to ruling in the kingdom.
This judgement isn't about who gets to enter.
John says, "The witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has the life..." (1John 5:11-12)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Oh gee, where have we heard or read things like that before???
Yes, you are anti-Catholic, so now all you are doing is to try and cover that up by using denial. I don't think anyone here is gonna fall for it though.
Again, we need to believe in the Gospel and not just pay it lip-service.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
I reply.... "From Childhood".... he only had "Old Testament"! Can't be saved by Old Testament! You NEED Church to find TRUTH to be saved!
Wildswanderer The Man with "Faith ALONE" can't be saved!
The Breastplate of salvation is made with "LOVE"! Don't forget "God is Love"!
1 Thessalonians 5:8
But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.
Wildswanderer The Man with "Faith Alone" has NO Hope for salvation; he cannot put on the helmet of salvation because it is made with "HOPE"! There is ONLY THE THREE.. Faith Hope & Love!
Clearly the man with only Faith; A man who has placed his salvation in the man made TRADITION of "saved by only my Faith" is "Hopeless and Godless"!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Wildswanderer The Anti-Christ is Anti-Christian! Clearly he had his hand in the making of the two TRADITIONS of "Saved by MY Faith and Scriptures ALONE"! These two man made traditions have sent millions of souls his way!
To believe in Jesus you MUST believe the words of Jesus! Jesus was talking to Nicodemus in 3:16 he told Nicodemus... You must believe in being Reborn with WATER! Jesus was teaching Nicodemus from John 3:1 to John 3:21 John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Right AFTER Jesus talked to Nicodemus he goes out and BAPTIZES with WATER!
John 3:22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized.
Wildswanderer QUESTION...WHY WAS Jesus at Aenon near Salim?????
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Wildswanderer You can't say you believe in Jesus and reject the words of Jesus!
Judas rejected the words of Jesus.. He also rejected the Flesh of Jesus as being a only a symbol of ordinary bread, he CONDEMNED himself when he ate!!
Jews are NOT Christians... 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
Christians eat the flesh of Jesus in the form of bread.. The God of the Christian can take any form he wants to take!
Wildswanderer Your god is not the Christian God, your god has limits on what he is allowed by you!
Answer the QUESTION...
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
The Goats are being Judged at the end time by Jesus! The Goats are exactly as the Sheep they also address Jesus as "LORD"! The difference between the Goats and The Sheep is their Good works of the Heart or Lack of Good works! The Goats have FAITH ALONE! The Sheep have FAITH PLUS GOOD WORKS" they are declarer Righteous!
Clearly the Goats believe in "Faith ALONE"!
1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
The Sheep are RIGHTIOUS because they do NOT have Faith ALONE! DOING RIGHT is RIGHTIOUS! The Christians is saved by Faith PLUS Works of the heart "LOVE"!
The Protestant placing his salvation in the man made TRADITION of "saved by my faith ALONE" is a Goat a child of Satan!
The one who does what is right is righteous,
22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
The one who does what is right is righteous,
What MUST YOU DO TO BE SAVED!? You MUST LOVE!
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Wildswanderer so much for saved by "ONLY FAITH"! You MUST Love to be saved! Faith PLUS Works of the heart save! Saved by "Only Faith" is a LIE!
Satan is the father of lies.. He had his hand in the making of this man made TRADITION of saved by "my FAITH ALONE"! Faith ALONE sends the Goats to Satan; Faith ALONE is a man made TRADITION not found in the scriptures!
The one who does what is right is righteous,.... The Sheep are Christians they are RIGHTIOUS they go to heaven! Matt 25
The Goats are those who have "Faith ALONE" no good works!
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Yes we do. And Catholicism isn't the gospel.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Lol, what a weak argument!
We always thank God for all of you and continually mention you in our prayers. 3 We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.
"your faith in God has become known everywhere."
He's talking to people that are already saved and given eternal life and giving instructions on how to show thier faith. These verses aren't about how to be saved.
The hope of salvation is only possessed by those who already have faith.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
The Sheep go to heaven because of what they do, they are declared Righteous the Sheep have Faith PLUS LOVE!
The "Faith ALONE Goats" are declared Satan's Children! The Faith ALONE Goats are Judged by Jesus as un-Righteous!
The Goats are JUDGED by their "Faith ALONE!"
The Sheep are true Christian they are Judged RIGHTIOUS because they do NOT have Faith ALONE! The Sheep have Faith PLUS LOVE!
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Wildswanderer QUESTION: What MUST you do to be saved!
Wildswanderer 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
Doing RIGHT saves; having Faith ALONE then you lose your soul! The Righteous are saved! The Man made TRADITION of "Faith ALONE" sends souls to Satan!
1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Wildswanderer The Man with "Faith Alone" has NO Hope for salvation; he cannot put on the helmet of salvation because it is made with "HOPE"! There is ONLY THE THREE.. Faith Hope & Love!
Clearly the man with only Faith; A man who has placed his salvation in the man made TRADITION of "saved by only my Faith" is "Hopeless and Godless"!
The Man with faith ALONE has no Hope or Love!
God is LOVE! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The man with Faith ALONE is Godless!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
The man who has placed his salvation in the Man Made Tradition of "Saved by ONLY Faith" is selfish he is Godless he has NO hope!
Satan had his hand in the making of the TRADITION of "saved by faith ALONE" it has sent many souls to him!
The Sheep in Matt 25 have LOVE they are the Righteous they go to heaven!!
The Goats have NO LOVE they do NOT lift a finger to help anyone, they are Godless!
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Wildswanderer The Demons have Faith ALONE.. The demons would NOT lift a finger to help anyone they also are Godless!
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
“Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples” (John 4:1–2). So, the disciples were baptizing by His direction- Jesus was not personally baptizing anyone.
Is this what you're referring to?
We don't know if Jesus personally baptized anyone.
Now, keep in mind that the baptism of Jesus was “with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Mt 3:11-12)(Mk 1:8)(Lk 3:16-17)(Jn 1:33)(Acts 1:5)(1 Cor 12:13).
It seems like these baptisms at John's time were a symbol of peoples commitment to follow whatever God was doing next. After all Pentecost hadn't happened yet. They were apparently not being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Of course, it's not the Gospel. What a bizarre statement.