Why Do Some Doubt The Deity of Christ?

[Pah]

Hi Everyone
...

SECOND, This forum is about the Deity of Christ and not everything else.

Actually, it is not about the "Deity of Christ" but the title of the forum is Biblical Debates The thread title is "Why Do Some Doubt The Deity of Christ?" and you might well address that instead of the "Deity of Christ"

THIRD, wITH respect my post #21, I do not remember which this was since if you will note I have since then posted over 200 post, so stop being absurd and ridiculas.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89[/QUOTE]

ahem.... I think he was talking about post #21 in this thread......

This will make the second time you are told it is post # 21 in this thread. Care to address the question now?

 

[linwood]

FIRST, One poster wrongly claims I have not read the Gospel of Thomas which is not true as when I was in Bible school I read many of the Apocrypha, but that was years ago and I being human do NOT remember all, only a computer does.

Then perhaps you should re-familiarise yourself with the texts you are critiquing.

There may be other things you don`t remember correctly.

 

[iris89]

Hi Everyone

FIRST, It is not necessary to re-read when I know it is part of the Gnostic Aprocypha writings none of which is inspired and/or recognized as same by any authority.

SECOND, Post 21 is over two hundred post ago, if no one raised any questions at the time, obviously it is not and important item and only being raised at this time to waste time that should be spent on important issues.

THIRD, I never posted on the debate forum, but someone moved my post there. I do NOT debate, only discuss things. Debating is, in my opinion, only those with an overblown ego, and does not produce any learning on the part of either debater, i.e., a total waste of time and not Christian.

FOURTH, The topic of the thread is the Diety of Christ in specific, not the entire Bible. Stay on thread topic.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[Master Vigil]

"I do NOT debate, only discuss things. Debating is, in my opinion, only those with an overblown ego"

I could just be hallucinating but I believe your talking about yourself. I think you have this illusion that you are this great bible reasearcher, but when people debate your posts, you can't back your stories up. Perhaps more debate would be good for you, you know, do real research so you can back your stories up.

 

[anders]

FIRST, It is not necessary to re-read when I know it is part of the Gnostic Aprocypha writings none of which is inspired and/or recognized as same by any authority.

There are other authorities than yours.

SECOND, Post 21 is over two hundred post ago, if no one raised any questions at the time, obviously it is not and important item and only being raised at this time to waste time that should be spent on important issues.

Some of us are adults and have jobs to attend to. It isn't always that we're able to respond immediately to posts. Moreover, several of us have managed to go back to that #21, so it should be perfectly possible to you as well.

And your maths is abominable. For this thread, 103-21 is 82, not 200.

 

[iris89]

Hi Master Vigil vbmenu_register("postmenu_100339", true); & anders

FIRST, I do not debate for reasons previously given. I backup what I say with references right in my research articles, not by debate.

SECOND, The authorities I mention are the ones that are recognized authorities on the Bible. For more detail, go to:

Bible Canon & Bible Data

http://www.network54.com/Forum/388559

And you can read the facts and see the references for yourself.

THIRD, On this thread, my article that started it dealt with the Deity of Christ and now everyone wants to throw all kinds on nonsense in, nuts!

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[chris9178]

I never posted on the debate forum, but someone moved my post there. I do NOT debate, only discuss things. Debating is, in my opinion, only those with an overblown ego, and does not produce any learning on the part of either debater, i.e., a total waste of time and not Christian.

I disagree. I debate to learn more, or understand the opposite view.

By the way Vigil, whatever happened to our previous debate??? I can't seem to find it anymore!

 

[oracle]

Debating is, in my opinion, only those with an overblown ego, and does not produce any learning on the part of either debater

I think debating can be fruitful or non-fruitful. It depends on the hidden agenda of who's debating. However, the point of debating is to prove the other wrong, which on a level can be egoistic if that is a person's agenda, and another it can be fruitful as a means of gaining knowledge. Even debating itself holds lessons.

In chapter 2 verse 18 of Genesis, it says "Hashem God said, "It is not good that man be alone; I will make him a helper corresponding to him." It has been interpreted "a helper corresponding to him." The Chumash commentary says that it literally means "a helper against him".

My whole point is that it can actually be benificial. Not the opposition, but that another person can give you a whole other aspect of looking at things. In the case that you may be wrong, and are open to being wrong, debating will be benificial.

I come to debate to refine myself.

 

[Faust]

Quote: (Originally Posted by isis89)
Why Do Some Doubt The Deity of Christ?
In the old testament the messiah is supposed to be a direct descendant of David.
The book of Matthew 1:1 states The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. And gives the lineage of Abraham through David and up to Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
If Jesus is the son of God and the messiah, then why is his lineage traced to Joseph?
If he was Josephs son the lineage is correct, but then that discounts the virgin birth and son of God bit.
If he is not the son of God, then is he a deity?
Faust.

This post was a direct response to the question you posed in your thread.
It was not addressed.
Faust.

 

[Master Vigil]

"FIRST, I do not debate for reasons previously given. I backup what I say with references right in my research articles, not by debate."

You back up what you say with references that are within your little circle of thinking, and they don't do a good job. I suggest thinking outside of the box, you may learn something.

"SECOND, The authorities I mention are the ones that are recognized authorities on the Bible. For more detail, go to:"

You give a link to a forum with more of your posts. HAHAHA... you give mention to recognized authorities and those authorities end up being yourself. HAHAHA!!!! Please, spare me. Show me real research, not another forum with more of your poorly researched posts.

 

[iris89]

Hi Master Vigil

The authorities I give with respect the inspired books of the new testament are all the translators and translation committees of all the major Bible translations who all are in agreement on this. In fact, I know of no recognized Bible scholar who is not; nor of any that thing Gnostic authored books are inspired. You can check any major Bible translation, to wit, KJB, NKJB, ASV, NASV, NIV, New American Bible (Catholic), NWT, Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, AAT, RSV, NRSV, The Good News Bible, NEB, An American Translation, etc.

Most of my articles are written 'Sola Scriptura' style which means they contain over 50% and by the very nature of the work completely backed up always by the Bible.

For examples of mine and my PhD. Theologian husband go to the following and see the extensive referencing and backing also with the scriptures.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388928&messageid=1108469292&lp=1108489334

and,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388928&messageid=1108469820&lp=1108488610

and,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388928&messageid=1108487629&lp=1108487843

and,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388168&messageid=1108233238&lp=1108514554

your Friend in Christ Iris89

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[Pah]

iris89,

Did you say that your only authority was the inspired books of the Bible? If so, I would have two questions for you

Why would you mention you spouse's credentials. I ask this because it seems that if your spouse was an authority there would be books in your personal library that are scholarly but not inspired and why wouldn't you not use those?

What convinces you that the inspired words are in fact the words of God? Would it be personal revelation? If so, then it is difficult to separate personal opinion from "revelation" and is not convincing authority or proof for that reason.

 

[iris89]

Hi pah

I mentioned who my husband was as some have inferred that I do not understand my subject which is of course and outright lie.

The Bible is the ultimate authority since it is the only standard who has God (YHWH) as its real author. He just used faithful men whom he inspired to put his thoughts into the words of men and create this standard as a guide for all of mankind.

All so called authorities and experts of this world are of course much lesser authorities, no matter their subject expertise, than God (YHWH). For more information on the Bible as the Standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382158&lp=1108382158
and,

Civilization and the Bible:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382063&lp=1108382063


and,

Details on Bible Canon:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108381517&lp=1108381780

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Bible is the ultimate authority since it is the only standard who has God (YHWH) as its real author.

And you kow this how?

 

[Master Vigil]

"And you kow this how?"

Come on deut, you know the answer to this, "I know this because of my well researched bible authorites say so." And then she'll give you a link to another forum where you think these authorities will have an article or something, but its just more of Iris' "well researched" stuff. HAHA!!!

But seriously Iris, I second Deuts question. How do you know this? Indubitably?

 

[iris89]

Hi Everyone

I have already given some links to check, but you both should already know this as I believe both of you live in the USA. In fact one of you even uses a Bible verse as your internet name, Deuteronomy 32:8, "When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God." (Revised Standard Version; RSV). This verse clearly shows that fact as any reasonable person would clearly see so stop being so ridiculas and wasting my time.

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382158&lp=1108382158
and,

Civilization and the Bible:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382063&lp=1108382063

and,

Details on Bible Canon:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108381517&lp=1108381

 

[painted wolf]

I have to say that being from the US has nothing to do with it, but if it does I'm sure you can tell me what.
What does the fact that Deut uses a bible verse as his name have to do with him not being able to ask a very valid question.

If you want us doubters to beleive your points you should be willing to explain why you believe them yourself. If you can not tell us why you believe that "god is the author" of the bible then why should we believe that it is.
I know that I for one don't.

I asked a question a while back and never recieved an answer for it, so I will patently ask again.
What makes Jesus a Deity? Others have been born of virgins, sired by gods, raised the dead and healed the sick, and come back from the dead. What makes Jesus 'the only son of god' and not those others?
Is it just because the bible said so?
Why should I believe in the Diety of Christ and not the Deity of those others?

wa:do

 

[iris89]

Hi painted wolf

First, I did not say being from the US made any difference with respect to asking a question; I clearly was indicating that the answer for anyone with a standard US education would already know the answer tor the question he asked. Look at what I said in the remainder of the post.

Second, You should find the answer if you read my post that started this thread to your question What makes Jesus a Deity? But simply put a son is like his father and if his father is the supreme deity, naturally the son would be one also, understand.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[Pah]

... But simply put a son is like his father and if his father is the supreme deity, naturally the son would be one also, understand.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Different statement from you but the same question that Deut raised, and Vigil seconded - You know this how?

 

[Master Vigil]

"But simply put a son is like his father and if his father is the supreme deity, naturally the son would be one also, understand."

I for one know ALOT of people who are the exact opposite of their fathers. You have proved nothing, especially because it is only opinion that his father was supreme deity. I ask again, how do you know this?