Why do some people

[mikkel_the_dane]

Something that establishes his existence and that of validity of the prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis that he is supposed to have sent.

As long as you do the same with your metaphysics, I will leave you alone. But you seen unable to do that.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, Mikkel, I will be equally interested in faults in my thinking/belief. I understand the limits of my beliefs. Kabir said:

"Nindak neare rakhiye, angan kuti chavay; bin pani bin sabune, nirmal kare subhay"
(Keep the critic near yourself, let him have a hut in your courtyard; he will clean your faults without soap or water)

 

[Spirit of Light]

Something that establishes his existence and that of validity of the prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis that he is supposed to have sent.

This is what I seek

According to mysticism, the truth behind creation of man and essence of all prayers is the recognition of Allah. The term is used by Sufi Muslims to describe mystical intuitive knowledge, knowledge of spiritual truth as reached through ecstatic experiences rather than revealed or rationally acquired.

 

[Audie]

Yes, the spiritual realms, as far as I know. Science has no answer for it. And seem to say it can't be real? Am I understanding it correct?

Spiritualists have no evidence there is a
" spiritual realm".
No investigator can study something that
shows no trace of existing.

Science, any clear thinking wont say
this " realm" CANNOT exist.
Same with Nessie and Bigfoot.

Just, not like super likely.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So you are special? You have no biases? Well, then you are in for a Nobel Prize for what the world really is. Stop posting here and send your finding to a relevant scientific organization. I mean it.

I am not qualified for that, and then, it is too late for me at 79+. My bias has developed after deep analysis. I am not alone in this belief. There are hundreds of thousands/millions who follow Buddha and Advaita. I am in no way special. There are many in this forum itself.

 

[Aupmanyav]

This is what I seek

According to mysticism, the truth behind creation of man and essence of all prayers is the recognition of Allah. The term is used by Sufi Muslims to describe mystical intuitive knowledge, knowledge of spiritual truth as reached through ecstatic experiences rather than revealed or rationally acquired.

Conscious Thoughts, I do not think you are seeking. You already have firm views about things. For seeking, one has to make the slate absolutely clean. I did that, then only I found what I was seeking. Cleaning is a catharsis.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Conscious Thoughts, I do not think you are seeking. You already have firm views about things. For seeking, one has to make the slate absolutely clean. I did that, then only I found what I was seeking. Cleaning is a catharsis.

There are still a million questions I do not have an answer to on the path, by seeking deeper within my own being there will be more to realize.

 

[firedragon]

Why do some people think that using science to "explain" any form of theism is a right way to understand belief in a God?

In discussion of theism science are useless since science do not "know" the unseen, so they can not verify a "result" if religion or spiritual teaching is discussed it has to be done by the teaching of each spiritual teaching. Not by use of science.

There are lots of nuances in this my friend. Sometimes science can be used to provide a hypothesis for a divinity. It is indeed a rational position, and is fact. Just that it will end up being a hypothesis because this is science.

When people discuss their theologies and other "ism's" they get into some strange positions. There are atheists who end up believing paradoxes are true just to attempt at an apologetic against religion. And theists end up believing science proves God right now, today. Its an utter lack of understanding, and a blind necessity of defending one's world view at play.

But you were absolutely right. Science does not work with the metaphysical. But there are some who science to give a direction to their philosophical arguments. Also sometimes atheists bring in science into a metaphysical argument on God, etc, and theists may respond with some scientific responses. That does not mean they are using science to explain theism.

That being said, there are many high educated individuals in science who do pin point a thesis for God based on science.

What are these thesis's you have come across?

 

[firedragon]

There are still a million questions I do not have an answer to on the path, by seeking deeper within my own being there will be more to realize.

Do you think Ibn Arabi used science to explain theism?

 

[Audie]

There are still a million questions I do not have an answer to on the path, by seeking deeper within my own being there will be more to realize.

Is that maybe a kind of self indulgence?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Is that maybe a kind of self indulgence?

No the self will disappear one day

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am not qualified for that, and then, it is too late for me at 79+. My bias has developed after deep analysis. I am not alone in this belief. There are hundreds of thousands/millions who follow Buddha and Advaita. I am in no way special. There are many in this forum itself.

Okay, you admit it is a belief and you have a bias. That is like me.

 

[blü 2]

Why do some people think that using science to "explain" any form of theism is a right way to understand belief in a God?

I take it you're complaining about sociological and anthropological hypotheses to explain why religions are found in just about all cultures?

Or is some other aspect of reasoned skeptical enquiry of concern to you here?

In discussion of theism science are useless since science do not "know" the unseen, so they can not verify a "result"

The world is full of religions of different kinds, and individual religions are divided into thousands of sub-religions.

This is because with all the supernatural aspects of religion there is no such thing as objective truth, no way of showing that claim A is correct and therefore claim B is wrong. Instead, any supernatural claim can be 'correct' simply because someone wants it to be and can get at least one other to agree.

The Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Flying Spaghetti Monster are satirical examples of the problem ─ they're no more falsifiable in reality than any 'genuine' religion.

if religion or spiritual teaching is discussed it has to be done by the teaching of each spiritual teaching. Not by use of science.

It's plain to see, just by looking around, that religion is about group solidarity, cultural identity, joint formulae for life ceremonies (coming of age / partnering / birth / death) ─ and historically, explanations for those things and for natural phenomena (weather, drought, plague, and not least luck ─ in hunting, love, war, and so on).

So (assuming I've understood the point you're making) I don't see any way I can agree with your OP.

 

[osgart]

Why do some people think that using science to "explain" any form of theism is a right way to understand belief in a God?

In discussion of theism science are useless since science do not "know" the unseen, so they can not verify a "result" if religion or spiritual teaching is discussed it has to be done by the teaching of each spiritual teaching. Not by use of science.

They want to see hallmarks of the creator's design. Metaphysical speaking I see life as evidence of else intelligence. But that does not get me to an almighty God. And I don't see design, but I do see forethought in life on Earth.

There's a certain spiritual path that gets me to seriously question if there is a truth of a God. Then I look at the horrors of reality and those notions are quickly dispelled. Then I consider there might be truth on a lesser power and scale then an almighty one.

Perhaps good and evil is an eternal battle. The spiritual path must prove itself invincible to show that God exists. The spiritual path should reveal why we are here.

 

[Audie]

They want to see hallmarks of the creator's design. Metaphysical speaking I see life as evidence of else intelligence. But that does not get me to an almighty God. And I don't see design, but I do see forethought in life on Earth.

There's a certain spiritual path that gets me to seriously question if there is a truth of a God. Then I look at the horrors of reality and those notions are quickly dispelled. Then I consider there might be truth on a lesser power and scale then an almighty one.

Perhaps good and evil is an eternal battle. The spiritual path must prove itself invincible to show that God exists. The spiritual path should reveal why we are here.

Forethought.

How did you find that?

 

[osgart]

Forethought.

How did you find that?

I've been through this before. I'll just say when I see the human form, and all it's coordination, functionality, and abilities that sets off my intuition that we are preconceived. I don't even doubt that.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Everyone's beliefs have "some substance" to them.

Heh...I was going to post this, but you beat me to it.

*Tips metaphorical cap*

 

[Audie]

I've been through this before. I'll just say when I see the human form, and all it's coordination, functionality, and abilities that sets off my intuition that we are preconceived. I don't even doubt that.

Ok, and a study of anatomy, esp as comparative anatomy has a great tendency to lead people to a very different view.

Im kind of thinking youve not done that.

 

[Audie]

They want to see hallmarks of the creator's design. Metaphysical speaking I see life as evidence of else intelligence. But that does not get me to an almighty God. And I don't see design, but I do see forethought in life on Earth.

There's a certain spiritual path that gets me to seriously question if there is a truth of a God. Then I look at the horrors of reality and those notions are quickly dispelled. Then I consider there might be truth on a lesser power and scale then an almighty one.

Perhaps good and evil is an eternal battle. The spiritual path must prove itself invincible to show that God exists. The spiritual path should reveal why we are here.

Good and evil, the one big divide in the world
( universe), everything on one side or the other.

What are good and evil, and why do they spend theirvtime fighting?

 

[osgart]

Ok, and a study of anatomy, esp as comparative anatomy has a great tendency to lead people to a very different view.

Im kind of thinking youve not done that.

No I have not. Why would that be helpful in dispelling my intuition?