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Why do you believe in God?

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Do you have any research for this or is this your faith alone?

Baha'u'llah has given the confirmation on that concept.

"Man is the supreme Talisman. Lack of a proper education hath, however, deprived him of that which he doth inherently possess. Through a word proceeding out of the mouth of God he was called into being; by one word more he was guided to recognize the Source of his education; by yet another word his station and destiny were safeguarded. The Great Being saith: Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom.... "

Regards Tony
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah has given the confirmation on that concept.

"Man is the supreme Talisman. Lack of a proper education hath, however, deprived him of that which he doth inherently possess. Through a word proceeding out of the mouth of God he was called into being; by one word more he was guided to recognize the Source of his education; by yet another word his station and destiny were safeguarded. The Great Being saith: Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom.... "

Regards Tony

So you say that Bahaullah said there is no Fithrah? Just asking.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Then what you say is not relevant, though you say "this". I dont really understand why you would respond to that saying "this".

Maybe you should clearly define what you wish to say and explain it.

The quote gives the answer, "Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom."

We are born in the edge of darkness and the beginning of light, the light is the potential within. Until we reach maturity we are not responsible for our choices and we have the bounty of education to bring out all those gems.

Without education we would remain in Darkness.

Regards Tony
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The quote gives the answer, "Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom."

We are born in the edge of darkness and the beginning of light, the light is the potential within. Until we reach maturity we are not responsible for our choices and we have the bounty of education to bring out all those gems.

Without education we would remain in Darkness.

Regards Tony

That still does not really provide anything to valjeans case.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
No!
We're born not believing in God. To reject God we'd have to have acquired a belief in one, somewhere along the line.

@firedragon

The passage starts we are born not believing in God and belief is acquired.

The passage quoted from Baha'u'llah confirms that education about God is needed to find the Gems.

Regards Tony
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Now that, lets see.

1. You said that your experience was different right? So do you think that is the default nature of all humans? Is not that a anecdotal fallacy speaking of logical fallacies?

2. Do you know that research was conducted and findings were that children were born the way this person is describing? I didnt want to derail the thread so I neglected this, but since you insist.

What do you think?
Children are quite gullible in many ways, even as to assigning agency to inanimate objects like their toys or as to other things, so I doubt they spontaneously come up with visions of God without such coming from their parents. And the belief in any God (or such) might be natural purely from their relationship with any parent - the latter, being so much larger, their having complete dependency upon them, and their having a complete lack of understanding of virtually everything, as babies.

Young Children Are Especially Trusting of Things They’re Told – Association for Psychological Science – APS

Are kids born with an innate belief in God? | Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Well. Thats exactly opposite to Fithrah.

SO you said its not.

This is exactly what Baha'u'llah's quote offers to me.

"Fitra or fitrah (Arabic: فطرة‎; ALA-LC: fiṭrah) is the state of purity and innocence Muslims believe all humans to be born with. Fitra is an Arabic word that is usually translated as "original disposition", "natural constitution", or "innate nature".

Regards Tony
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
This is exactly what Baha'u'llah's quote offers to me.

"Fitra or fitrah (Arabic: فطرة‎; ALA-LC: fiṭrah) is the state of purity and innocence Muslims believe all humans to be born with. Fitra is an Arabic word that is usually translated as "original disposition", "natural constitution", or "innate nature".

Regards Tony

I know this very well Tony.

Whats your point?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No!
We're born not believing in God. To reject God we'd have to have acquired a belief in one, somewhere along the line.
Retaining our natural lack of belief in unevidenced things isn't rejection, it's our default position.
Who can say? For sure, observing how many people believed throughout history, might suggest a sort of natural predisposition to believe, at least in something beyond mere naturalism.

i think that this propensity is itself a naturalistic adaptation.

Ciao

- viole

.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
But religious claimants are a dime a dozen. They're everywhere, and people always find 'reasons' and 'evidence' to support their claims.
What they don't have is hard evidence; evidence that can be investigated and tested by anyone interested, like we have for the claims of biology, chemistry or physics.
If the evidence were there, wouldn't there be common agreement, like there is for scientific claims?
There is evidence, but not the same kind of evidence that can be tested like scientific evidence can be tested.

Atheists are always telling me that there is no objective evidence for the claims of Baha'u'llah but there is objective evidence for those claims (see 1-4 below). This evidence can be investigated by anyone interested, but there will not be common agreement like there is for scientific claims, because everyone will view this evidence differently and come to different conclusions about what it indicates about Baha'u'llah.

The following evidence (1-4) is objective evidence according to the definition because it can be examined and evaluated:

1. The character of Baha'u'llah
2. The life of Baha'u'llah
3. The mission of Baha'u'llah (the history)
4. The Writings of Baha'u'llah

What does objective evidence mean?

Objective evidence refers to information based on facts that can be proved by means of search like analysis, measurement, and observation. One can examine and evaluate objective evidence.

What does objective evidence mean?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
But religious claimants are a dime a dozen. They're everywhere

Atheists are less in number, but are in my personal experience and opinion, more dogmatic, more evangelical, more missionary, and more religious, than the others. Dime a dozen, everywhere, all your words apply. So none of this is any argument.
 
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