Why do you believe in religion?

[Starfish]

I can perfectly well get along with everyone without being controlled, as can most people. You find it makes your life easier to be controlled, and you aren't the only one. That doesn't mean we need to be. I'd rather live free myself.

Controls bring freedom. My moral controls keep me free from STD's, unwed pregnancies, a broken home, and a lot of grief.

When raising my daughter, I "made" her practice the piano. She was definately controlled. Now she has the freedom to play any music she wants on the piano.

 

[Magic Man]

Controls bring freedom. My moral controls keep me free from STD's, unwed pregnancies, a broken home, and a lot of grief.

When raising my daughter, I "made" her practice the piano. She was definately controlled. Now she has the freedom to play any music she wants on the piano.

"to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command. " That is the Dictionary.com definition of "control".

"2.exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc. 3.the power to determine action without restraint." This is the definition of "freedom" from the same site.

I would have to say that these are completely mutually exclusive definitions. Your daughter would have been free to play the piano when she grew up whether or not you "made" her do it when she was young.

 

[rheff78]

So what if religion was passed on to you from your parents. If you come from a religious family most of them will tell you it was their duty to pass on their faith to their children. I fail to see how and why that's a problem.

 

[Magic Man]

So what if religion was passed on to you from your parents. If you come from a religious family most of them will tell you it was their duty to pass on their faith to their children. I fail to see how and why that's a problem.

The OP is just saying that that is the only reason most people believe, because they were taught to by their parents. It's only a problem if religion isn't true, and it keeps people from finding the truth.

 

[Starfish]

Your daughter would have been free to play the piano when she grew up whether or not you "made" her do it when she was young.

On the contrary, she wouldn't be free to play anything she wants. I wasn't "controlled" as a child to practice, so I'm not free to play anything I want. I am only free to play limited, simply pieces.
We are both free to learn and practice today, through an internal "control" which fits with one of the definitions you quoted.

Are we disagreeing? I'm not sure.

 

[rheff78]

The OP is just saying that that is the only reason most people believe, because they were taught to by their parents. It's only a problem if religion isn't true, and it keeps people from finding the truth.

ok, I'll abide by that. Then I'll put it another way. We all were definately influenced by our parents, and their parents and theirs, all the way back to our original parents, Adam and Eve. God showed himself to us, our heavenly Father, he is our parent so in effect it is a tradition that has been passed down from God himself.

 

[Magic Man]

On the contrary, she wouldn't be free to play anything she wants. I wasn't "controlled" as a child to practice, so I'm not free to play anything I want. I am only free to play limited, simply pieces.
We are both free to learn and practice today, through an internal "control" which fits with one of the definitions you quoted.

Are we disagreeing? I'm not sure.

You are still free to play any music you want. It might be narder for you, and you might not play it as well as she does, but you can still play it. How do you not see that freedom and control are opposites?

 

[Starfish]

You are still free to play any music you want. It might be narder for you, and you might not play it as well as she does, but you can still play it. How do you not see that freedom and control are opposites?

I don't think I ever said they weren't opposites. I said control brings freedom. With controls, we are free from a lot of negative consequences. Kind of like giving up a lesser freedom to enjoy a greater one later on.
Example-replace free time with study, and later you have the freedom to perform surgeries. Replace free time with work, you are then free to pay your bills. Choose to not smoke (a control)--maintain a freedom from addiction.

I apologize if I'm not getting your point.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't think I ever said they weren't opposites. I said control brings freedom. With controls, we are free from a lot of negative consequences. Kind of like giving up a lesser freedom to enjoy a greater one later on.
Example-replace free time with study, and later you have the freedom to perform surgeries. Replace free time with work, you are then free to pay your bills. Choose to not smoke (a control)--maintain a freedom from addiction.

I apologize if I'm not getting your point.

So, any decision you make is a control on you? I'm talking about freedom in the sense that I get to actually use my "free will". My "free will" lets me make mistakes and learn from them, but, for the most part, I'll keep my free will as it is, and that means without control.

 

[Starfish]

So, any decision you make is a control on you? I'm talking about freedom in the sense that I get to actually use my "free will". My "free will" lets me make mistakes and learn from them, but, for the most part, I'll keep my free will as it is, and that means without control.

I guess you could say that. I believe in free will also, in fact free will (agency) is a gift from God. I freely choose my controls (many learned from my religion), and enforce them on my self. Through this process, I maintain my freedom, and continue to gain more freedoms.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nihilism is the only thing that makes sense to me... I am not miserable... I feel that we are all entirely worthless, but that doesn't mean I have to be miserable... We all still exist, and we can still have fun with life before we die.

Just because things or people aren't automatically assigned worth or value doesn't mean that they're worthless. We may start at zero, but where we go from there is up to us.

 

[Quiddity]

Just because things or people aren't automatically assigned worth or value doesn't mean that they're worthless. We may start at zero, but where we go from there is up to us.

We?...

I'm not even sure you can go from "we". More like "I"...

It's not like people can't go minus zero or stay at zero, no?

 

[EtuMalku]

You believe in religion because you are subconsciously afraid not to believe. Those who have overcome this have stepped forward.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We?...

I'm not even sure you can go from "we". More like "I"...

It's not like people can't go minus zero or stay at zero, no?

If everything is intrinsically worthless, then we're free to choose our own measures of worth. As human beings, we have free will and the ability to act on it, so we can all move up and down our own scales of worth as we're able.

 

[rheff78]

You believe in religion because you are subconsciously afraid not to believe. Those who have overcome this have stepped forward.

So people who don't believe in religion are more evolved than those that do?

 

[Quiddity]

You believe in religion because you are subconsciously afraid not to believe. Those who have overcome this have stepped forward.

Whats to fear? The fears I had as an atheist still exist as a theist.

Maybe those who feel they have overcome it have only overcome an abstract version of theism to which they come to realize that they weren't trying to find God at all but simply in search/need of a path through which they get over the need for a God.

Maybe?

 

[Michel07]

I have asked my (Non-atheist) friends time and time again why they believe in religion, and none of them can give me a good reason, so I did some thinking and I think I've got it.

THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE BELIEVE IN RELIGION IS BECAUSE OF PARENTS!

When you are born, you have no concept of religion, parents put that idea in your head. I would like your thoughts on my idea.

One hopes in life to learn a little more than what he knew when he was born.

 

[Quiddity]

If everything is intrinsically worthless, then we're free to choose our own measures of worth. As human beings, we have free will and the ability to act on it, so we can all move up and down our own scales of worth as we're able.

When you said "we" I thought you were applying that simply to non-theist. I see what you mean now.

Although I will note that although we are all free to do so, we innately want to do it in a communal fashion. Where we all agree on a certain amount of worth of people.

 

[Michel07]

Nihilism is the only thing that makes sense to me... I am not miserable... I feel that we are all entirely worthless, but that doesn't mean I have to be miserable... We all still exist, and we can still have fun with life before we die.

I'm a little floored. But your feelings will change and not even an ant is worthless.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I'm a little floored. But your feelings will change and not even an ant is worthless.

I don't think my feelings will change... It makes great sense to me, what I believe...