Why do YOU have the right to vote on MY rights?

[nutshell]

Not true. "Society" as defined by Christian influence over government matters has defined that. You also said you submit to the laws of the land. So why is it then that many other countries have recognized homosexual marriage as legal and a human right and not the U.S.? Because as a country we are extrememtly young and ignorant and have much left to learn. We are still led by the backwards ways of the religious right that are unfortunately still in office. Because as long as the stout ones as you run to the polls to keep them in office, and we can't seem to get through to you that your way of thinking in this modern world in antiquated and no longer reasonably works, we are stuck with living in times of prejudice and stupidity over something that might not even be real. If you are unable to acknowledge that there are humans that are homosexual...that is to say that homosexuals are humans and deservent of the rights that other humans are granted by law, then you must classify them as sub-human. And what gives you the right to do that? Nothing. Your belief that your belief is right? Please. That is no excuse what-so-ever and is the exact reason we have so many blinded by the limits of their own perceptions nowadays.

I never classified anyone as sub-human, but you are, after all, by self proclamation a Dragon Lady.

 

[nutshell]

Is that your standard Christian outlook, when dealing with others ?

Oh, and BTW, I think Mike's answer to you with a return question was pretty valid. Let us (for pure hypothetical example) take a town where the majority of people were homosexual; do you think they would do all in their power to stop heterosexuals from marrying?

Mike didn't answer. He asked a question.

You must realize you're dealing with an individual and I do not represent standard Christian outlook nomore than you, as an individual, represent Gay outlook.

 

[nutshell]

yes i am, but that does not make it invalid *bangs head on wall* ok, let me say this then: gay marriage is as much a right as straight marriage

You continue to make the same assertion over and over and over again. What I am asking for is evidence that this assertion is correct and NO ONE has been able to provide that.




(I bet this post gets responded to by another question :sarcastic )

 

[michel]

Mike didn't answer. He asked a question.

You must realize you're dealing with an individual and I do not represent standard Christian outlook nomore than you, as an individual, represent Gay outlook.

But surely the way you treat others is in accord with your beliefs on how you should treat others ? - after all, you are a 'standard bearer' for your faith.......as we all are.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

The point is it's a man and a woman - the definition created by God Himself.

And yet he seems to be the only person who doesn't seem to give a toss about it. At least his lack of comment infers such.

Further, marriage for love is overrated if you ask me. Marriage cannot survive by love alone - you can quote me on that.

Yeah, and I believe she also said something about commitment. What do you reckon about love in conjunction with commitment? Pray enlighten us.

 

[Mike182]

Is that your standard Christian outlook, when dealing with others ?

Oh, and BTW, I think Mike's answer to you with a return question was pretty valid. Let us (for pure hypothetical example) take a town where the majority of people were homosexual; do you think they would do all in their power to stop heterosexuals from marrying?

careful michel, we don't want to get around to soddom

You continue to make the same assertion over and over and over again. What I am asking for is evidence that this assertion is correct and NO ONE has been able to provide that. (I bet this post gets responded to by another question )

nope, not a question..... i would justify my right to marry with the same justification you use to justify your right to marry!

 

[Quiddity]

Secular mararriage has NEVER been sacred. All marriage today is secular. You are wrong, flat out wrong, to apply that word to a secular institution and perhaps more in error to think that a religious "sacredness" should be in a secular government.

New Advent
By many uncivilized races, and by most civilized ones, the marriage ceremony is regarded as a religious rite or includes religious features, although the religious element is not always regarded as necessary to the validity of the union.

I have no idea where you got your information from. Care to share?

 

[Draka]

You continue to make the same assertion over and over and over again. What I am asking for is evidence that this assertion is correct and NO ONE has been able to provide that.




(I bet this post gets responded to by another question :sarcastic )

If it does then I bet it's because everyone is wondering what your evidence is that your assertion of heterosexual marriage is a human right and not homosexual marriage. Evidence further than religious belief. And you have none. Which is why you are getting the responses you are. You adamently stand there stomping your foot down that you are right because you are right with nothing more that your religious belief to back it up. You believe how you believe and demand that others back up their assertions while still staying within the constrains of your belief. Can't work. Never will. You are unable to see the way others see because you are church instructed not to. Because you choose to adhere to that thought you will not be budged by logical, legal, secular talk or speech. It will not reason with you. So asking for evidence you are unwilling to see makes your question a moot point.

 

[mingmty]

You continue to make the same assertion over and over and over again. What I am asking for is evidence that this assertion is correct and NO ONE has been able to provide that.




(I bet this post gets responded to by another question :sarcastic )

There's no "PROOF" or "EVIDENCE", is just common sense, if two grown up persons decide to spend their lifes together getting married they should be allowed to do so, no harm is made to others. Why should they suffer for something they didn't choose?

We straight people forget all the great privileges we have, is a shame that a gay couple can't decide what to do with the body of their partner in the event of death, is a shame both can't get social security when only one works, is a shame we live in such an intolerant society and that this rights are even questioned.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I never classified anyone as sub-human...

Because homosexuals are human.

I second that motion.

Motion denied

*sound of gavel falling*

:sarcastic
Oh, don't tell me, it was a joke, right? :biglaugh:
I'd take that on the road...good standup is hard to find. Obviously.

 

[jamaesi]

Mike didn't answer. He asked a question.

I answered.

 

[Ormiston]

New Advent
By many uncivilized races, and by most civilized ones, the marriage ceremony is regarded as a religious rite or includes religious features, although the religious element is not always regarded as necessary to the validity of the union.

I have no idea where you got your information from. Care to share?

This says "marriage ceremony". Not the same thing as a marriage.

 

[Mike182]

I answered.

i would like to point out that i have also answerd the same question, twice now, each time without a question! nutshel, you lack a valid response to the statements i made, and so you put up the pretence that i have not anserd your question..........

 

[Draka]

jamaesi and Mike182, he will not recognize your answers for the reasons I have already stated. Mainly...they don't fall into his nice little belief instructed constrains of right and wrong. There is no swaying or convincing him. Any valid answer will go overlooked or disregarded because it is something his belief will not allow him to accept or realize.

 

[Quiddity]

This says "marriage ceremony". Not the same thing as a marriage.

Most include a ceremony. It's part of the package. To deviate from that is not the norm. That's my point.

 

[Ormiston]

Most include a ceremony. It's part of the package. To deviate from that is not the norm. That's my point.

IMO, that's what religion is for: ceremony. That's what religion is good at. What religion is not good at, again IMO, is law/government. Just look at Islamic Law in the middle east. Victor, would you mind giving an example of a common argument against gay marriage that doesn't involve the morality of it? Some example of how it would be a detriment to the "common good" of a country.

 

[Quiddity]

IMO, that's what religion is for: ceremony. That's what religion is good at. What religion is not good at, again IMO, is law/government. Just look at Islamic Law in the middle east.

I agree. The Catholic Church learned this the hard way. I don't advocate no seperation of Church and State. I think they should be seperate. But that doesn't mean (and this is important) that religious folks should keep their mouth shut because it's a "secular matter". Securalism itself has hints of religious dogma in it already. It's produces morality from people of the US, not just from non-theist.

Victor, would you mind giving an example of a common argument against gay marriage that doesn't involve the morality of it? Some example of how it would be a detriment to the "common good" of a country.

No can do. The very fact that you use the phrase "common good" demands me to use my morality.

 

[Mike182]

Most include a ceremony. It's part of the package. To deviate from that is not the norm. That's my point.

so if i can provide a religious aspect to my gay marriage....... that is to say, if i can show that a form of deity i worship approves of homosexual marriage, is it then allowable?

 

[Ormiston]

No can do. The very fact that you use the phrase "common good" demands me to use my morality.

Fair enough.

 

[jamaesi]

so if i can provide a religious aspect to my gay marriage....... that is to say, if i can show that a form of deity i worship approves of homosexual marriage, is it then allowable?

My G-d does. : D My G-d will accept your marriage.


... As long as there's some crabcakes. Yum. : D