Why do YOU have the right to vote on MY rights?

[standing_alone]

Yeah, I said I don't care if the word "marriage" is used, I care that I get the same treatment/legal rights married heterosexuals do.

Here's the post I'm referring to:

If I get every single right as a heterosexual gets and they call it something else (just because I'm gay - which I don't see why my relationship can't be called a marriage), but it is identical. I don't really care. This is about equal rights, not about titles we put on things.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Tradition.

Who knew one word could be such a compelling argument.:areyoucra

 

[jamaesi]

Tradition.

Oh jeez!

I'm swayed! Let's bring back slavery and take away women's rights while we're at it.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Thank you for providing your evidence. I understand the difference between the disgusting evil that is pedophilia and rape and a caring homosexual relationship between consenting partners. That said, I do not believe (religious or not) that all acts between consenting adults should be allowed, even if they aren't infringing on the rights of others. That's why we have laws such as seat belt laws.

We have laws such as seat belt laws because many people have died because they didn't wear their seat belt.

How many people have died in, say, the last year because a gay couple were granted shared custody of their adopted children? How many people died because a gay man inherited his partner's belongings after he died?

Just as a ballpark estimate, I'm going to say....ZERO.

I want to thank you again for providing your evidence. You were the first.

You're welcome. If you'd like to return the gesture, you could provide some evidence why gay marriage should notbe allowed.

Oh wait, I forgot...you support same-sex couples having all the same legal protections as straight couples. So really this is just an argument over the word "marriage". Literally--the word itself. A two-syllable word. You want gays to have shared custody of their children, to have tax breaks and one-income status just like straight couples, to inherit each other's wealth and to be able to make medical and funerary decisions for their partners just like straight couples....but you want it to be illegal to call it "marriage".

Again, whatever floats your boat.

 

[nutshell]

I'm not trying to sway you my gay friends, you're trying to sway me.

 

[standing_alone]

I'm not trying to sway you my gay friends, you're trying to sway me.

Actually, we just want equality.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

He did comment on it. You weren't listening.

Nah, he doesn't talk to me. Ignorant *******. I've called, I've written...nuthin.

They just want the tax breaks I guess.

Is that why you got married?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'm not trying to sway you my gay friends, you're trying to sway me.

Are they succeeding?

edit: As an afterthought, it's easy for you not to care about swaying anyone (or being swayed, for that matter). No matter what happens, you'll be able to marry the person you love. There's nothing at stake in this for you. There is for them.

 

[Jaymes]

Tradition.

Oh, so we want the traditional version of marriage? Kay. Hope you're ready to shell out big bucks if you have a daughter and want her to get married. Oh, and women being reduced to property again. Tradition, after all. Maybe we should abolish those silly child labor laws. After all, it's only in the past few centuries children haven't toiled out in the fields with their parents. Crazy liberals wanting children to not spend all day working.

It's not people that are being protected in this case.

Then what in the bloody hell are we "protecting" by denying me the human right to marry another consenting adult, and how does this "protection" outweigh the 1000+ rights that being able to marry would give me?

 

[standing_alone]

edit: As an afterthought, it's easy for you not to care about swaying anyone (or being swayed, for that matter). No matter what happens, you'll be able to marry the person you love. There's nothing at stake in this for you. There is for them.

:clap Well said! When I can give more frubals, I will make sure some get to you! :clap

 

[nutshell]

Actually, we just want equality.

Correct. And to gain equality, you may need to sway my vote your direction.

 

[nutshell]

Nah, he doesn't talk to me. Ignorant *******. I've called, I've written...nuthin.

He has, is, and will continue to proclaim it to the world. His definition of marriage and family is at the following link:

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1995.htm/ensign%20november%201995.htm/the%20family%20a%20proclamation%20to%20the%20world.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0

Is that why you got married?

No. I did not get married for tax breaks.

 

[Jaymes]

If it was a just world, it wouldn't matter what you thought about my rights, nutshell. Unfortunately tyranny by the majority is popular at the moment, and queers are about as unpopular as it gets right now.

We can wait, yes. We will get rights. But why <i>should</i> we wait?

 

[nutshell]

Are they succeeding?

edit: As an afterthought, it's easy for you not to care about swaying anyone (or being swayed, for that matter). No matter what happens, you'll be able to marry the person you love. There's nothing at stake in this for you. There is for them.

They are not succeding because they have not provided compelling evidence that gay marriage is a human right.

There's more at stake not for me individually but for society as a whole than I think many realize.

Regardless of how I feel, I believe gay marriage is inevittable.

 

[Jaymes]

No. I did not get married for tax breaks.

Neither do gays. We get married so that the family can't force us out of the hospital as our partner is dying. We do it so that we can't be forced to testify against our partner in a court of law. We do it so that the state can't take away our house after one of us dies. We do it so that our kids aren't taken away and put into an orphanage or to relatives that would block us from visiting them. We get married because we love each other and want to share everything; homes, lives, mortgages, kids, love, everything. Tax breaks are so far down on the list that's the last thing anyone's worrying about.

 

[nutshell]

Oh, so we want the traditional version of marriage? Kay. Hope you're ready to shell out big bucks if you have a daughter and want her to get married. Oh, and women being reduced to property again. Tradition, after all. Maybe we should abolish those silly child labor laws. After all, it's only in the past few centuries children haven't toiled out in the fields with their parents. Crazy liberals wanting children to not spend all day working.

This is not the tradition I speak of. My tradition is much older than the Romantic or Victorian-eras.

Then what in the bloody hell are we "protecting" by denying me the human right to marry another consenting adult, and how does this "protection" outweigh the 1000+ rights that being able to marry would give me?

We're protecting marriage itself. Gay marriage is not a right. No one has offered compelling evidence yet to the contrary.

 

[nutshell]

Neither do gays. We get married so that the family can't force us out of the hospital as our partner is dying. We do it so that we can't be forced to testify against our partner in a court of law. We do it so that the state can't take away our house after one of us dies. We do it so that our kids aren't taken away and put into an orphanage or to relatives that would block us from visiting them. We get married because we love each other and want to share everything; homes, lives, mortgages, kids, love, everything. Tax breaks are so far down on the list that's the last thing anyone's worrying about.

Tax breaks is just one of many examples. You were in error to read it so literally. The point is, other gay posters have put forth the idea that these "benefits" are more important than marriage itself. I say if they feel that way, give them the benefits under an institution other than marriage.

 

[Jaymes]

There's more at stake not for me individually but for society as a whole than I think many realize.

Yes, we're all aware of the grave social consequences of gay marriage.

For example, look at the Netherlands.

... which are mysteriously intact.

Okay, look at Spain!

... which isn't being burned to the ground for accepting those sodomites.

Okay, Canada!

... still going strong, though some people might argue the new conservative government is a sign that God hates them.

Belgium!

Darn it all, why are none of these places falling apart for letting gays marry?! It's almost like it doesn't hurt society at all!

 

[standing_alone]

The point is, other gay posters have put forth the idea that these "benefits" are more important than marriage itself.

By benefits, I mean the 1,049+ federal rights that come with marriage. Tax breaks are one thing that interests me the least.

 

[Jaymes]

We're protecting marriage itself. Gay marriage is not a right. No one has offered compelling evidence yet to the contrary.

Start your war on "protecting" marriage in Vegas. If there's anything that's a threat to it, it's bimbos like Britney Spears being married for a few days and getting out of it at a snap of the fingers.

Tell me, if your marriage was in danger because people considered allowing Mormons to marry something that would destroy the country and voted to make it illegal to allow Mormons to marry, would you feel that marriage was a human right then?