Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus?

[Tumah]

First let me assure you I am not questioning your or anyone else's expertise. First,

Two firsts and a broken post. Are you trying?

He was Jewish and knew the language before He was converted.

Being Jewish does not grant one automatic knowledge of Hebrew. This is irrelevant. Outside of Orthodox day schools, most Jewish kids don't even learn Hebrew.

He has as long and distinguished career as a theologian, especially on the O.T and in knowing Hebrew. He has written several(6 as I remember) commentaries on O.T. books.

Writing books doesn't mean that what one has written is correct. Otherwise there are many, many more Jewish theologians who wrote commentaries on Tanach that disagree with this guy and according to this logic they should also ne correct.

For them to be of any value, he must understand Hebrew better than the average Jew.

No, for them to be of any value they need to appeal to his market audience.

We both know there are many levels of expertise in any discipline. IMO, his resume better than most and equal to any other experts. Resumes are the only way we have to judge one's qualifications. Kline's expertise is probably equal, but even experts will disagree at times.

And they can't both be right. You've chosen your stance based on religious bias rather than objective reasoning.

The servant is not substituting words. The words are God's words. That makes the question, "why would God substitute words?" IMO, it is to show both words have or can have the same meaning. If God did not intend that, He would have never used alma,

I have no idea what you are saying. In the narrative, we are told two identical stories: one recounting the servants prayer and one of the servant recounting his prayer. Aside for the irrelevant part skipped out for brevity in the retell, the only major difference between the two accounts is that in the first account Eliezer uses the word na'arah (young woman) - which has no implication towards virginal status - and in the second account, the word almah is substituted. The only time the word virgin (bethulah) is used is by the Narrator. And that makes sense because I don't think the servant brought her to the gynecologist in between the time she finished feeding his camels and the time she brought him home, so there's no reason for him to use a word that states something he doesn't know.

He didn't need to know her status. He was not going to make the choice, God was---The servant prays and says, "may she be the one YOU have appointed for your servant Isaac(Gen 24:14)."

Yes and G-d only appoints virgins for the righteous that he could assume she would be???

Also, I lean on the N.T. where the verse is quoted, and in Greek, there is no question the word for virgin can only mean a virgin.

That is true. The question is if the Greek was altered to reflect the NT or if "parthenos" doesn't strictly mean "virgin". I see that all three different words in the chapter (bethulah, na'arah and 'almah) are all translated as parthenos in the LXX. Verse 16 even says "and the virgin ... was a virgin". Really.[/quote]

 

[Tumah]

It is neither one. The word is be tulim.

I don't know where you got that word from but betulim means virginity. Betulah means virgin.
Verse 16 says "and the na'arah had a good appearance, she was a betulah..."

 

[omega2xx]

Two firsts and a broken post. Are you trying?

Being Jewish does not grant one automatic knowledge of Hebrew. This is irrelevant. Outside of Orthodox day schools, most Jewish kids don't even learn Hebrew.

I doubt if that was true in Feinberg's youth. However it doesn't matter. l He became an expert in Hebrew as an adult.

Writing books doesn't mean that what one has written is correct. Otherwise there are many, many more Jewish theologians who wrote commentaries on Tanach that disagree with this guy and according to this logic they should also ne correct.

Don't try to read between the lines of what you think I have said. I have not said or implied writing a book means it is correct. However you are going to criticize what he had done no matter what he did, and this without knowledge. Read one of his books and tell me where is is wrong.

No, for them to be of any value they need to appeal to his market audience.

Another indication you will complain about what he has done and as usual from ignorance. The value of a commentary doe snot depend on an audience. It s value depends on its accuracy.

And they can't both be right. You've chosen your stance based on religious bias rather than objective reasoning.

Not true. I have taken my stance on the qualification of my source. It is more likely you have taken your stance on your religious bias and the religious bias of your source.

I have no idea what you are saying. In the narrative, we are told two identical stories: one recounting the servants prayer and one of the servant recounting his prayer. Aside for the irrelevant part skipped out for brevity in the retell, the only major difference between the two accounts is that in the first account Eliezer uses the word na'arah (young woman) - which has no implication towards virginal status - and in the second account, the word almah is substituted. The only time the word virgin (bethulah) is used is by the Narrator. And that makes sense because I don't think the servant brought her to the gynecologist in between the time she finished feeding his camels and the time she brought him home, so there's no reason for him to use a word that states something he doesn't know.

The servant, and you don't know if it is Eliezer, has no need to know. He is not going to make the choice, God is. The words we need to consider are "alma" in Isa 7:14, "virgin(bethulah) in Gen 24:16 and "maiden" (alma) in 24:43. Since the last 2 refer to the same person, it shows "alma" can mean a virgin. I also get to include the NT quote of Isas 7:14). So when Feinberg said alma means a young girl whose charactersistic is virgin. he is right.

Yes and G-d only appoints virgins for the righteous that he could assume she would be???

First of all you are still trying to read between the lines of what I say and as usual, you are not very good at it. The servant did not have to assume anything. He was not going to make the choice.

That is true. The question is if the Greek was altered to reflect the NT or if "parthenos" doesn't strictly mean "virgin". I see that all three different words in the chapter (bethulah, na'arah and 'almah) are all translated as parthenos in the LXX. Verse 16 even says "and the virgin ... was a virgin". Really.

[/QUOTE]

That is a comment of desperation. You have absolutely no evidence anything in your last comment is valid. God inspired the writer what word to use, just as He inspired what words to us in Isa and Gen.

 

[omega2xx]

I don't know where you got that word from but betulim means virginity. Betulah means virgin.
Verse 16 says "and the na'arah had a good appearance, she was a betulah..."

We are not concerned about the word for Girl. That that has been established.

 

[Tumah]

We are not concerned about the word for Girl. That that has been established.

Oh ok.
I mean not according to the Greek Septuagint. But for here anyway.

What do you even fo here? Is the Greek Septuagint more authoritative than the translations for you? This is not clear because they disagree on this.

 

[omega2xx]

Oh ok.
I mean not according to the Greek Septuagint. But for here anyway.

What do you even fo here? Is the Greek Septuagint more authoritative than the translations for you? This is not clear because they disagree on this.

I put no faith in the Sept. The NT was not translated from it. It can be useful at times to see how a word was used at that time.

 

[Tumah]

I put no faith in the Sept. The NT was not translated from it. It can be useful at times to see how a word was used at that time.

That's weird because in another post I could have sworn you referred me to the Greek.

 

[Flankerl]

Neither have you and you are the one saying linage comes through the father,

So where did I write that?

Of curse not. The Bible says they did, sdo they did.

lol

You are accusing me of something for which you have no evidence

Should ring a bell right about now.

I ACCEPT THAT SOME PEOPLE WILL BE CONVERTED TO JUDAISM.

No one will be converted to Judaism.
Some people convert to Judaism.

Big difference.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... The question is if the Greek was altered to reflect the NT or if "parthenos" doesn't strictly mean "virgin". I see that all three different words in the chapter (bethulah, na'arah and 'almah) are all translated as parthenos in the LXX. Verse 16 even says "and the virgin ... was a virgin". Really.

Relevant here is Gender Issues in Ancient and Reformation Translations of Genesis 1-4 by Helen Kraus. The entirety of Chapter 1 is valuable, but take particular note of footnote 18 on page 11.

 

[omega2xx]

That's weird because in another post I could have sworn you referred me to the Greek.

I may have, I don't remember doing so. Since I don't have the Sept to refer to, it seems very unlikely that I did. I did mention to someone that the Sept does use alma for virgin twice.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I did mention to someone that the Sept does use alma for virgin twice.

1. The standard abbreviation is "LXX", not "Sept".
2. The standard transliteration is "almah", not "alma".
3. The LXX used the word "παρθένος" not "alma".

How you manage to get so much wrong with so few words is often astonishing.

 

[omega2xx]

1. The standard abbreviation is "LXX", not "Sept".
2. The standard transliteration is "almah", not "alma".
3. The LXX used the word "παρθένος" not "alma".

How you manage to get so much wrong with so few words is often astonishing.

Your quibbling has been noticed. LXX and Sept are both accepted abbreviations. I have not said what the Sept uses.

I am surprised you got 1 thing right.

 

[Rival]

That is true. The question is if the Greek was altered to reflect the NT or if "parthenos" doesn't strictly mean "virgin". I see that all three different words in the chapter (bethulah, na'arah and 'almah) are all translated as parthenos in the LXX. Verse 16 even says "and the virgin ... was a virgin". Really.

Okay, I just recalled something when I was reading the book that Jayhawker posted.

If I recall right, originally in Greek the word 'virgin' (parthenos) referred to a woman who hadn't yet had any children. Whether she'd had sex was not the issue.

Unless someone has posted this already.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have not said what the Sept uses.

Previously ...

I did mention to someone that the Sept does use alma for virgin twice.

What a joke.