Ok this may be a long post sorry.
Let me start with this
That is your version. My version says "going, therefore, disciple the nations". The word "make" is added in your version.
True different versions may say something different and on some occasions there may be just one version that gets it right [example John 3:16, only the Concordant version really nails it], but since that is the case then lets just do what the scriptures say to do, we need two or three witnesses to prove a scriptural truth.
Ok so lets look at the parable of the talents. One took his talent and increased them, the other took his talent and hid it. Jesus was mad at the one who hid his talent and praised the other. Now Im pretty sure we agree that disciples of Jesus are to do good works. So when Jesus said "therefore , disciple the nations", just as some versions have it as teach instead of disciple, it does NOT mean stay and keep trying to convert/disciple someone who doesn't want to be discipled. It does NOT mean force what you believe on someone either. It also does NOT mean hide your talent and wait for your Master to return---you can back that up with what Jesus said about the church of Laodicea "I will vomit you out my mouth" for being lukewarm.
Second witness:
Paul, as his custom was, went to the synagogues trying to teach/disciple right? But when those people didn't want anything to do with it, what did he do? Knocked the dust off his feet and went about his way.
Now It DOES mean as Strongs defines it;
Cognate: 3100 mathēteúō (from 3101 /mathētḗs, "disciple") – to disciple, i.e. helping someone to progressively learn the Word of God to become a matured, growing disciple (literally, "a learner," a true Christ-follower);
to train (develop) in the truths of Scripture and the lifestyle required, i.e. helping a believer learn to be a disciple of Christ in belief and practice. See 3101 (mathētēs).
Here is where we differ. I do not believe Jesus is for saving me. He came to save the world of which I am not.
Well theres two problems here, in the scriptures it does say we are not to be part of the world but it also says that by no other name can one be saved, in other words be not part of this world. So if you achieved this without Jesus and never ever being part of the world then...
BTW Jesus is Jehovah or as you have Yehoshua.
Yes, by your word you will be saved (into the body of Christ) and by your words you will be condemned (by the body of Christ). Telling about Jesus The Kingdom is not making disciples.
Telling about Jesus is balm for weary souls.
I can agree with this although telling about Jesus and the Kingdom should make disciples, after all its the Gospel/Good News by which you are being saved right? Sad thing the truths of God and the Kingdom are NOT taught so most don't even have any idea what the purpose of the Kingdom of God is for.
Most know and believe that you try to get yourself saved in this life so when you die you go to heaven instead of hell or purgatory---sadly that's it. Even though the scriptures don't teach any of that, but that's all that's being taught.
If they knew that the Kingdom has a very important job to do, and what it is, and why they are in the Kingdom and others aren't and BELIEVED IT, then it would make disciples out of em. But as it stands you are pretty much right "Telling about Jesus is balm for weary souls."
[
QUOTE]How do you know only his disciples can make a disciple? A disciple is someone who follows behind a leader to be taught by him. Is this wrong?
Well one way is by what Jesus said "you will know them by their fruits". A jew who tries to teach/disciple someone about/to follow Jesus...doesn't quite work [assuming that he doesn't really believe Jesus is the Son of God].
Jesus promises freedom. So knowing what being held as a slave feels like causes many people to seek the deliverer who is Jesus Christ. So slave owners make disciples for Jesus. How is this not true?
Heres the difference for true disciples making disciples---they should not be lording it over another like they was a slave owner. If anything they should be acting as servant also just like their Master said He was acting.
One has to know what truth to be a true worshipper? I think it means refusing to believe a lie.
Same difference. In order to truly refuse to believe a lie one has to know the real truth. Better way to state it,
can the deceived know they are deceived? Until the deceived know that they been deceived, they wont refuse believing a lie.
Going is not a true word to describe the Kingdom. "Coming" is the true Kingdom word. "Let your kingdom come" says Jesus.
I was addressing it as the Kingdom is already established. As the scripture said it, the Kingdom, will have no end, thus it keeps going and going.
Also if Jesus IS The Kingdom, then the kingdom does not grow as Jesus is not growing.
Jesus is not growing. That is correct. How do you improve on perfection? Jesus is not solely the Kingdom either
But seek ye first the kingdom of God,
and his righteousness;
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever [eonian];
and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
This is a huge subject though so I will just leave it there.
