Why does baptism for the dead bother you?

[Bishka]

Maquarie Dictionary: Elder - older; senior. A person who is older then oneself. One of the older and more influential men of a tribe or community.

I dont think 20 year olds fit into that catogory. Unless ofcourse they are older than me.

Did you not read what I posted? In the LDS Church (I'm emphasizing this) it is a calling. Just as other churches have definitions in their theology, the LDS has theirs. That's a dictionary definition, not an LDS theology definition.

 

[Vjkingjr]

What about the 5-year old girl in pre-Christ Mongolia? What about the tribes Africa that have never heard it? I can surely tell you there are many people that have never heard the message of Christ.

Well it seems obvious..if the 5 year old girl lived before Christ, ofcourse she wouldn't have heard the message. When Jesus came into the picture - he used the OT to preach. Well what about the dinosaurs and the vikings and the persians and Adam and Eve?..everything for a reason. How about i go and baptise myself for Adam or Eve..will they then go to heaven? Even though God instructed them not to eat of the tree of life..and even after God cursed them all the days of their life?

 

[madhatter85]

go easy on him becky, it was his 11th post.:drool:


my young friend, the LDS on this site are very nice and if you ask them, they will be more that happy to show you where they get there beliefs.

Thank you for that rocka,
I know some of my posts may seem a little harsh or directed. but unfortunately that is the nature of debating belifs vs other beliefs. and if i offend i don't mean to.

I really don't believe anything without personal experience. I found out for myself what i believe in, i didn't take anyone's word for it. and i encourage everyone to find out for themselves.

 

[Vjkingjr]

So why go door knocking and saying this is Elder so and so ..if it is a LDS theology definition? Why not..Hi my name is Pete and this is David. Did any of Jesus's apostles go running around saying..Hi my name is St Paul or whatever? But that is off the topic anyway.

 

[Bishka]

Well it seems obvious..if the 5 year old girl lived before Christ, ofcourse she wouldn't have heard the message.

You never answered my question. What happens to her? Does she just burn for eternity because she4 was unlucky enough to not hear Christ's message?

 

[Gentoo]

Why does Baptism for the dead bother you?

It doesn't, plain and simple

 

[Vjkingjr]

Its okay madhatter i do understand =]

Put it this way.. I would like to believe what the Mormons teach and the going to Heaven and all that - but to me there is a difference in what i would like to believe, and what the truth is. More then often the truth is hard to handle. But i still go with my mate to his church sometimes and i do find Mormonism interesting. The reason i dont believe their doctorine is simply because of seeing debates between people from my Ecclesia and Mormons..and in the end all the Mormons can do is Ummm and Arrrr. And a whole bunch of other reasons.

 

[Bishka]

So why go door knocking and saying this is Elder so and so ..if it is a LDS theology definition? Why not..Hi my name is Pete and this is David. Did any of Jesus's apostles go running around saying..Hi my name is St Paul or whatever? But that is off the topic anyway.

Like I said, It is a calling. It denotes that they have specially been called to go and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[rocka21]

It doesn't, plain and simple

it doesn't bother me either, they can do what they want. Just wondering WHY.

I do know this, i know more about it than before i read this thread! thanks!

 

[Bishka]

The reason i dont believe their doctorine is simply because of seeing debates between people from my Ecclesia and Mormons..and in the end all the Mormons can do is Ummm and Arrrr. And a whole bunch of other reasons.

That's the only reason? Just because they are not as well-versed? :areyoucra

 

[rocka21]

Vjking,

being new, you might want to jump over to the ask a mormon page. that will help.

 

[madhatter85]

Well it seems obvious..if the 5 year old girl lived before Christ, ofcourse she wouldn't have heard the message. When Jesus came into the picture - he used the OT to preach. Well what about the dinosaurs and the vikings and the persians and Adam and Eve?..everything for a reason. How about i go and baptise myself for Adam or Eve..will they then go to heaven? Even though God instructed them not to eat of the tree of life..and even after God cursed them all the days of their life?

Back on topic, we do not baptise or proxy baptise any names of children under the age of 8 years old.
As for the adam and eve question, back then the prophets of old were required to give sacrifices or burnt offerings to god in anticipation of christ coming to die for the sins of thw world. after that nobody was required to give any more sacrifices, but to be baptised and remember christ by partaking of the sacrament (communion). As far as i know the righteous of old weren't required of baptism, but to make sacrifices (the best of thier crop, thier flocks) untill christ came , then there was no longer the need for such practices.

in basic theology, if adam and eve had not partaken of the fruit they would not have multiplied and replenished the earth, providing bodies for god's children and his plan would nto have come about. the "Curse" they speak of was death, that at soem point in thier life they would die because they are now mortal beings.

 

[Vjkingjr]

You never answered my question. What happens to her? Does she just burn for eternity because she4 was unlucky enough to not hear Christ's message?

Well in there lyes the illogicality - the people that didn't hear the message of Christ..will burn in hell forever - but wouldn't God know if they had the chance to or not? Thats assuming you go to some afterlife after you die. Have you had a look at the Christadelphian beliefs? ..there is a christadelphian forum and they would be more then happy to answer your questions etc..just type in google BTDF forum.

My belief is that no she doesn't burn in hell for eternity..she would return to the dust of the earth and await Jesus's coming and be judged worthy or unworthy..depending on what sought of life she lived.

Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

 

[Gentoo]

it doesn't bother me either, they can do what they want. Just wondering WHY.

I do know this, i know more about it than before i read this thread! thanks!

Why does anyone do anything? They believe that they are helping their deceased family members, seems pretty simple to me.

 

[madhatter85]

Well in there lyes the illogicality - the people that didn't hear the message of Christ..will burn in hell forever - but wouldn't God know if they had the chance to or not? Thats assuming you go to some afterlife after you die. Have you had a look at the Christadelphian beliefs? ..there is a christadelphian forum and they would be more then happy to answer your questions etc..just type in google BTDF forum.

My belief is that no she doesn't burn in hell for eternity..she would return to the dust of the earth and await Jesus's coming and be judged worthy or unworthy..depending on what sought of life she lived.

Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Of course she won't because as i said in my previous post, we don't baptise chlidren under the age of 8. Which to us is the age of accountability.

 

[Vjkingjr]

Back on topic, we do not baptise or proxy baptise any names of children under the age of 8 years old.
As for the adam and eve question, back then the prophets of old were required to give sacrifices or burnt offerings to god in anticipation of christ coming to die for the sins of thw world. after that nobody was required to give any more sacrifices, but to be baptised and remember christ by partaking of the sacrament (communion). As far as i know the righteous of old weren't required of baptism, but to make sacrifices (the best of thier crop, thier flocks) untill christ came , then there was no longer the need for such practices.

in basic theology, if adam and eve had not partaken of the fruit they would not have multiplied and replenished the earth, providing bodies for god's children and his plan would nto have come about. the "Curse" they speak of was death, that at soem point in thier life they would die because they are now mortal beings.

Okay.. but it doesn't matter if they didn't replenish the earth etc because God told them not to. Exactly so they would die and go where? The telestial heaven?..the terestrial heaven?..they certainly wouldn't go to the celestial heaven - because the B.O.M wasnt around!

 

[Vjkingjr]

So all children under 8 spend the rest of eternity in the terrestrial heaven? And all the people that lived BC either go to the Telestial or the Terrestrial? But then when the book of Mormon is discovered..God creates a NEW heaven? Doesn't make much sense - and isn't Biblical.

 

[Bishka]

they certainly wouldn't go to the celestial heaven - because the B.O.M wasnt around!

Meaning? :sarcastic

 

[Bishka]

So all children under 8 spend the rest of eternity in the terrestrial heaven?

No. Children under the age of eight are not in need of baptism.

 

[Vjkingjr]

Like I said, It is a calling. It denotes that they have specially been called to go and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hardly what i would call humble.