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Why does God allow suffering?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Creation and destruction are two sides of the coin; they go hand in hand. Both happen by His will; that does not make him good and bad. Whatever He does is good for your soul if not your body. Rest all is simply product of the mind.
Regards,

At Luke 21:11 Jesus did Not say the 'great' earthquakes happen by God's will.
Jesus was informing us that such things would be occurring before there is divine intervention by Christ into mankind's affairs before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill. -Matthew 25:31,32; 16:27

Revelation 12:12 mentions who brings 'woe' to earth as the god of this world of badness -2 Corinthians 4:4.
 

Satsangi

Active Member
At Luke 21:11 Jesus did Not say the 'great' earthquakes happen by God's will.
Jesus was informing us that such things would be occurring before there is divine intervention by Christ into mankind's affairs before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill. -Matthew 25:31,32; 16:27

Revelation 12:12 mentions who brings 'woe' to earth as the god of this world of badness -2 Corinthians 4:4.

I cannot elaborate more as this would probably be against the DIR rules; this is a Christian DIR. But, u could open a thread under Hinduism if interested in the Sanatana Dharma perspective....

Regards,
 

Ba'al

Active Member
Suffering is something that we do to ourselves, and you're right, it's not God's doing. Because we do it to ourselves, we must take responsibility for our actions and clean up all of the unexplicably horrendous things that go on in our world today. Basically its our mess and we need to clean it up.

How do millions of babies that starve to death do it to themselves? How do people born with terminal genetic defects do it to themselves? How do people that suffer and die from natural disasters do it to themselves? How do children that die from malaria do it to themselves? :facepalm:
 

Archaeleon

New Member
Why should God intervene now? God already did what he wanted to do, send his Son to save humanity. The rest is now up to us.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why should God intervene now? God already did what he wanted to do, send his Son to save humanity. The rest is now up to us.

Because those of Matthew 25:31,32; 16:27 are alive or living on earth at the time of Jesus 'glory'. Jesus comes in glory as described at Isaiah 11:4; Revelation 19:11,14,15 with his angelic armies to rid the earth of wickedness.
Psalm 92:7; 37:11,29,38; Proverbs 2:21,22

Mankind has proven Jeremiah's words (10:23) to be true that man can not successfully direct his step. Man can not establish peace on earth.
Only Jesus can establish Peace on Earth.
see 1st Thess 5:2,3.

Didn't God in Genesis want the Garden of Eden expanded out until its paradisaic beauty covered the whole globe?
Mankind has also proved it can not successfully do that without God.
God has not abandoned his purpose.
Jesus, not greedy mankind, will fulfill the promise to Abraham (Gen 3:12; 22:17,18) that all families of the earth will be blessed, and all nations of the earth will be blessed. Only Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, can accomplish that during his peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
URAVIP2E said:

"What contradictory message or story did you have in mind?"

The ones that are described everywhere, such as 'How did Judas die?' My favorite is Ex 2:11, where Moses kills an Egyptian and buries his body in the sand, and then at Lev 24:17 and 24:21, twice 'God' says "If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death." Followed by the injunction at Lev 24:22, "You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born."

Moses was a killer and should have been put to death by 'God's' own law. But surely it is obvious this is not a book of facts, these are stories.

Regretfully, to believe in a Christian 'God' requires me to believe that 'God' does not punish his 'earthly servants', the priests, when they sexually violate children, children who are likely praying to this same 'God' to save them, and to punish the priests. Instead 'He' watches and does nothing. The children suffer for life, and the priests are not punished.

Why would anyone believe in such a 'God'?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
URAVIP2E said:

"What contradictory message or story did you have in mind?"
The ones that are described everywhere, such as 'How did Judas die?' My favorite is Ex 2:11, where Moses kills an Egyptian and buries his body in the sand, and then at Lev 24:17 and 24:21, twice 'God' says "If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death." Followed by the injunction at Lev 24:22, "You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born."
Moses was a killer and should have been put to death by 'God's' own law. But surely it is obvious this is not a book of facts, these are stories.
Regretfully, to believe in a Christian 'God' requires me to believe that 'God' does not punish his 'earthly servants', the priests, when they sexually violate children, children who are likely praying to this same 'God' to save them, and to punish the priests. Instead 'He' watches and does nothing. The children suffer for life, and the priests are not punished.
Why would anyone believe in such a 'God'?

Moses was in Egypt when he killed the Egyptian. That was before the Mosaic law or Constitution was given to the nation of Israel. Also under the Constitutional Mosaic law the Avenger of Blood, next of kin, could in all good conscience put to death someone that killed another. They had no jails but they had Cities of Refuge where a unintentional manslayer could be safe.
Mercy could also also shown. If it wasn't for God's mercy in connection to David and Bath-Sheba they would have been executed.

As far as the Christian arrangement: We still need to look back to what happened at the Garden of Eden. By Adam's disobedience he separated himself and the whole human family by passing down human imperfection to us. Also, by Adam taking the law into his own hands then Adam was setting up people rule over God rule. In other words, mankind rules itself independently from God until the time of Matthew 25:32; 16:27.

In the past God has used the political kings or world powers against people, even on his own unfaithful people, such as with the 70 year exile to Babylon.
Rev 17:2,17; 18:7 is showing the political 'kings' or world powers will turn on the world's false religious 'queen' which is the world-wide religious sector that has now run amok playing false to God and his Word. [1Cor5:11-13]

Although it looks as if God does nothing at the moment according to Matthew 24:14 he is having the good news of God's kingdom or his royal government proclaimed world wide before the end of all badness on earth comes.

Remember all this badness will not end until Matt 25:32. Once the political world turns on the religious world then that is when Jesus words will be as sharp as an executioner's two-edged sword. See Isaiah 11:4; 19:11,14, 15.
The United Nations sees a dangerous religious climate brewing in the world today and with backing the UN can be strengthened to turn on the false religious world. At that time Jesus as crowned king of God's kingdom [Daniel 7:13,14; 2:44] will usher in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.


Psalm 92:7; 37:11,29,38; Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30; Jer. 25:31-33; Micah 4:3,4
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
So for you it's Ok for Moses to be a killer? You must be right, because Yahweh promoted him and put him in charge of the Caananite Genocide. Here 'God' carries out a scorched earth policy, killing not only humans but animals as well, all, that is, except the young virgin girls that are 'given' to the soldiers. Give me a break..... Imagine 40,000 men all cutting off their foreskins with filthy flint knives, right before going into battle. Just an orgy of circumcision, I guess.

Good grief, when you can't distinguish reality from myth, there is a problem. Reading above, it seems that you take the Bible literally, for some reason. And even the archaeology doesn't support the stories.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So for you it's Ok for Moses to be a killer? You must be right, because Yahweh promoted him and put him in charge of the Caananite Genocide. Here 'God' carries out a scorched earth policy, killing not only humans but animals as well, all, that is, except the young virgin girls that are 'given' to the soldiers. Give me a break..... Imagine 40,000 men all cutting off their foreskins with filthy flint knives, right before going into battle. Just an orgy of circumcision, I guess.
Good grief, when you can't distinguish reality from myth, there is a problem. Reading above, it seems that you take the Bible literally, for some reason. And even the archaeology doesn't support the stories.

Yipes, I never said it was ok for Moses to be a killer. All are imperfect and we do not know all of the details of Moses action. Wasn't mercy shown Cain?
Unlike Moses, Cain was even warned by God about his anger beforehand.

Just because things are recorded in Scripture does not mean it was ordered by God. The Israelites went against him many times.
The virgins were given as wives to the soldiers. For all we know the rest could have been infected with some sort of STD. We just don't have all details.

Psalm 11:5; 5:4; 72:12-14 God hates violence.
Gen 6:6,11-13 God viewed the earth as ruined because of the violence.

The Canaanites brought divine retribution upon themselves by their immoral pollution of the land. Leviticus 18:24,25 is a warning to the Israelites of how God viewed the land and what was going on as unclean. Before verse 24 is mentioned the Canaanites practices in the land, and even the Israelites would not be exempt if they ruined the land either literally or morally.

If someone gave you a nice gift that you were not to ruin, and you ruined it, how would the one giving the gift feel? Do you think he would think you appreciated the gift? God did not gift the earth to mankind in order for humans to bring it to ruin by violence, pollution, immorality, etc. God's gift is only for those that want to be humble meek and care for out gifted earth.
Revelation 11:18 B.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Suffering can appear very sanitised on TV adverts with nice Kate Bush music on in the background and a dramatic tear on a dirty child’s face.

But suffering can be seriously nasty – people who are racked by pain while cancer eats their bodies; children who are raped repeatedly and kept in cellars for years; people dying in completely unnecessary starvation while we in the west celebrate obscene profits made by huge food companies who throw tons of food away each day.

These things are clearly not God’s doing but why does he allow them to continue? If he’s acted in the past (rescuing Jews from Egyptian oppression, Jesus miracles etc) why not now?

Without suffering and sadness, one would never know 'well being' and gladness.
I am content to endure my short periods of suffering and sadness, which heightens my experience of "well being" and gladness.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
URAVIP2E said:
"What contradictory message or story did you have in mind?"
The ones that are described everywhere, such as 'How did Judas die?'

Matthew describes the 'mode' of death
Luke describes the 'result' of his death

The gospels do not necessarily repeat each other.
Matthew lets us know the mode of Judas attempted suicide by hanging.
Luke adding the details of what happened
Combining the two accounts gives us a more complete picture of what happened:

Apparently Judas tried to hang himself over some cliff, either the rope or tree limb broke causing Judas to plunge down and burst open on the rocks below.

Also, Matt [27:6,7] Luke [Acts 1:18,19] helps discern who bought the field.
Since the priests could not put Judas money in the sacred treasury they used it to buy a field. So the land was purchased with the money Judas provided them. Because of that the purchase was credited to Judas.
Credited to Judas also because the money was unlawfully gained.
The law required the money be returned to the donor. Since Judas was dead it could not be returned to him as donor, but it could be allowed to be spent for something public or for the publics well being. Since the money was still considered to be Judas money it could be applied to him as the purchaser thus the priests could cover over their names in the involvement.
Also Zechariah 11:13 was fulfilled.
 

TurkeyOnRye

Well-Known Member
Suffering is one aspect of a dichotomy. Without suffering, there is no pleasure. Without polarities, all that would exist would be absolute peace, and so life would not be animated.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
These things are clearly not God’s doing but why does he allow them to continue? If he’s acted in the past (rescuing Jews from Egyptian oppression, Jesus miracles etc) why not now?

God is first acting now by having the good news of God's kingdom or royal government proclaimed world wide before the end of all badness comes on earth. Since Adam, mankind has ruled himself independently from God if he wishes. We are now seeing the surrounding world-wide results of such independence from the Golden Rule.

This will only continue until the time of Matthew 25:31,32; 16:27 when Jesus, as crowned king of God's kingdom government, takes action to rid the earth of all wickedness and usher in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.
We are at the time of the last days of badness on earth leading up to that happening. - 2nd Tim 3:1-5,13.


Isaiah 9:7; 11:4; Rev 19:11,15; Psalm 92:7; 37:11,29,38; Proverbs 2:21,22; Daniel 7:13,14; 2:44
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Suffering is one aspect of a dichotomy. Without suffering, there is no pleasure. Without polarities, all that would exist would be absolute peace, and so life would not be animated.

At the time of creation does it seem as if perfectly healthy Adam and Eve were not animated?
Wouldn't they have to animated in order to subdue the earth.
Expand the Garden of Eden until it covered the whole globe in paradisaic beauty?
Wouldn't they have to animated to reproduce until the earth was filled with perfectly healthy humans of mind and body?
Don't all desire to see the words of Micah 4:3,4 come to reality?
 

TurkeyOnRye

Well-Known Member
At the time of creation does it seem as if perfectly healthy Adam and Eve were not animated?
Wouldn't they have to animated in order to subdue the earth.
Expand the Garden of Eden until it covered the whole globe in paradisaic beauty?
Wouldn't they have to animated to reproduce until the earth was filled with perfectly healthy humans of mind and body?
Don't all desire to see the words of Micah 4:3,4 come to reality?

When I say "absolute peace", I mean absolute peace. That is to say stillness. A state that precludes creation.
 
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