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Why does God hide himself?

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
If you can't communicate with Him it does not mean others can't do it either.

If you think of Him, He will think of you.
I have been thinking of him for 50 years. What about you?

And honestly, I believe I communicate with God all the time, by just existing, interacting with nature, and simply by talking with people. Right now, I believe I essentially talking to God by talking with all of you, even unbelievers. God isn't a separate entity that you talk to like a person, but the unity of all things. You basically talk to God calling your mom. You're sitting down to share a meal with God when you eat breakfast. Because all of this, every thing here and now, is all God. That's why we never hear God's voice as a separate supernatural being, because God isn't one like that. God isn't the superhuman in a different dimension, but God is this life, reality, this here and now, what we are, what we do, what we experience, all of that is God. So I do communicate with God, but probably not in the same way as you do.
 

interminable

منتظر
To me, that's evidence of pantheism, that all things are God. Not that there's a God separate from this existence, but rather the existence and all things are all God.

I'm a Muslim and don't believe in that.
Nothing is like God.
Everything u can see and sense or hear is a creature of God

If he sent prophets, he can talk to each one of us. God would know that humans are gullible and it would be more efficient to talk to each and every person individually. Unless he can't.

If he could speak with prophets so he's capable of doing that but u don't deserved that to hear it until become a gnostic

How can a creator of sound not talk?
How can a creator of individuals not meet with each person individually?

I recommend u if u wanna hear god's word read the quran
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

Hiding in plain sight is how I understand the spiritual reality. The philosophical reality is that we are the ones hiding behind a false world/paradigm. And "behind" may not be the best preposition, as all of them plausibly work (i.e. in, beneath, around, etc.).

I honestly see God as closer to you than your nose. I realize that reads as if I'm speaking in metaphor, but I mean it literally. Closer to you (actual you) than your nose (which is not actually you).

In terms of God/Spirit communicating with you, I'll admit that it can be tricky, but is really (really really) a matter of perspective. I find God has never stopped communicating with Us. If expecting to find it in the form of scripture, I think it can be found, but is so indirect that it would take (great) discernment to realize it, or Grace to have it revealed as simple as it is. Even then, it would likely come off as impersonal, speaking to larger audience. So, I hear your words as a personal message that is the request. I used to not have any idea how to receive such messages, but was aware of people who did. I now receive personal messages often (more than once a day). When not receiving those, I still find that Spirit is communicating with us in a whole lot of ways, some of which are usually personal, but not taken as such. Like a song and specific lyrics may be exactly pertinent to precisely what was prayed/asked about within recent history, but because of prejudice to say, 'it's just a song written years ago, and let me spout off 17 other facts about the writing of that song,' it can then be easy to dismiss the (very obvious) message being conveyed.

For personal messages, I would say it takes a sense of knowing that it will happen. You could, I think, reference that as a sense of blind faith, but if wanting to have a debate on how that type of faith is best described and could function, I'd have it for the sheer intellectual entertainment and because I see blind faith as akin to taking anything in the world for granted and acting as if "I know" how this will go. Like driving on the highway at 65 with cars all around you and thinking you know that you'll be safe, cause of course everyone else will maintain same speed and what could possibly go wrong? I say this, because I think it helps early on, going from - I have no idea how to hear Spirit speaking directly to me - to - of course I or anyone can hear Spirit speaking directly and personally to me, and to Us, as needed or desired. Regardless of the circumstances. So to start, a sense of 'fake it, until you make it' might help. Then again, hearing 'fake messages' isn't going to get you all that far, unless hearing Spirit is for sheer entertainment purposes.

The only other thing I'd say in response to the post is I routinely find God to be quite satisfied with where I am/we are at right now. Prior to hearing Spirit, I fully anticipated that first messages would be in vein of "go forth and change your life significantly, for this is the Plan I have for you." Sure, there's some of that early on, cause well communicating with your Creator when discussing earthly life as if it could be summed up in a paragraph, will plausibly, I'd say likely, have you rethink a bunch of things currently on your path. But I think discernment would have you realize to get to where you are right now, means the communication has always been there, and your claims of "I don't know" are in essence, dishonest. You've always known, but because of faith in a false world that makes you think you (physical you) is yourself and spirit you (real you) is hidden, possibly non-existent, then you might show up at times as if ignorance truly is bliss, or even 'knowledge.'
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
He can
Read the quran
He has spoken to some special people
I'm special too.

Besides

This world is supposed to be a world that man can choose
When did man choose it? When did I or you choose it? And how?

If he should speak to everyone so nobody would remain atheists.
Wouldn't that be great though? That would solve a lot of wars, terrorism, disputes, violence, etc. We would have world peace if God did.

Actually it was clear that God exists because he every day should have spoken to people and
FAITH would be meaningless
Why is Faith more important that peace and harmony? And if faith is so important then why speak through prophets at all, wouldn't it be better if everyone just had belief without interference from other people?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

I would say He feels very unwelcome here. Would you go where you're clearly not wanted? I wouldn't.
 
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Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I'm a Muslim and don't believe in that.
Nothing is like God.
Everything u can see and sense or hear is a creature of God
And I'm not a Muslim but a pantheist so I believe every creature, atom, beam of light is part of God.

If he could speak with prophets so he's capable of doing that but u don't deserved that to hear it until become a gnostic
I'm very gnostic. I'm gnostic about the pantheistic God.

And... I don't deserve? So God choose to talk to some people because he favors them but not to others? I think that's probably your answer to the question why your God doesn't speak to everyone. He picks and choose who he likes.

I recommend u if u wanna hear god's word read the quran
I've read a bit of it. It doesn't jive with my inner being or my beliefs. My God is inclusive. Allah is exclusive. Not the same character.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe God is afraid you will grill them and put it on youtube.
Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.
Switching to serious mode: I do not lump the two books together but understand your comment.
If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.
That is not how it works. Either we have what it takes to live peacefully, or there is no point in pursuing peace. God's interference would not be human peace. It would make the world into a jail for truant barbarians.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.
God, being omnipresent, would just be talking to himself. I think you have already heard God's voice, because you are concerned about peace on Earth. Would you rather the voice appeared in the sky or in yourself? If it was in the sky we could think it to be just an illusion or aliens.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?
What should God tell you to do? What is the best choice? God isn't telling you to do nothing and to ignore people with problems. God is not telling you to be cruel, to be angry or pathetic. God is always saying the same things, and prayers should reflect that.
What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?
First, this is to give people dominion over Earth's affairs. Second, it is so that you can exist probably. There are analogies about this in the Bible; but these probably come from philosophical, historical and practical reasons it is thought to be the case. Philosophically, just as individuals must differentiate from their mothers to have identities, they must also experience time and differentiate from God or they'd just be nothing separate from God. We are mortals, and God isn't. Therefore God is not alive in the sense that we think of it. God is not physical or mental or time dependent and not technically alive either or is more than alive. From this you can derive that identity is made possible by separation from God which is what you call 'Hiding'. Learning about Relativity and Time helps a little.
 

interminable

منتظر
I'm special too.

Every human is special since he or she is supposed to be god's successor on earth
But without believe seems u have broken his rules. U overlooked all these evidences so u need to believe first then be a friend of him

When did man choose it? When did I or you choose it? And how?
U didn't get
U can choose to believe or not
Accept the truth or not
U can do bad or good

This is the choice
Wouldn't that be great though? That would solve a lot of wars, terrorism, disputes, violence, etc. We would have world peace if God did.
This world isn't supposed to be paradise
Rather to be a tool to test people how they act
Why is Faith more important that peace and harmony? And if faith is so important then why speak through prophets at all, wouldn't it be better if everyone just had belief without interference from other people?

Our ego is a hindrance for peace.
Can u settle this? Nope

Just contemplate
Some infidels told our prophet why didn't WE become prophet??
So u see pretexts never end

Instead of that trust your reason and choose the best
 
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Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

Why do examiners hide the answers in their exams papers?

Imagine how much good it would do, if they could just give us them and we could copy them down, there wouldn't be so many failed students, we could all have PhDs in everything!

But no matter how much I ask, the examiner won't provide the answers for me, Clearly they wants us all to fail!!
 
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Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Every human is special since he or she is supposed to be god's successor on earth
But without believe seems u have broken his rules. U overlooked all these evidences so u need to believe first then be a friend of him


U didn't get
U can choose to believe or not
Accept the truth or not
U can do bad or good

This is the choice

This world isn't supposed to be paradise
Rather to be a tool to test people how they act


Our ego is a hindrance for peace.
Can u settle this? Nope

Just contemplate
Some infidels told our prophet why didn't WE become prophet??
So u see pretexts never end

Instead of that trust your reason and choose the best
That's what you believe. My belief is different. And I still don't see the necessity of your God to choose not to talk only because he thinks I'm not "worthy". He had his chance when I was "worthy" as a Christian for 30 years, or when I was going on mission trips, but he never talked. He always only talked through prophets. At that time it was Christian prophets telling me and others what God said, because we weren't worthy enough. Only the prophets are worthy, Christian, Muslim, or whathaveyou. Always only the prophets of the conflicting religions can talk to their individual and unique gods. And they're always a tad bit crazy... perhaps that's what was missing? I wasn't crazy enough to talk to God...
 

interminable

منتظر
That's what you believe. My belief is different. And I still don't see the necessity of your God to choose not to talk only because he thinks I'm not "worthy". He had his chance when I was "worthy" as a Christian for 30 years, or when I was going on mission trips, but he never talked. He always only talked through prophets. At that time it was Christian prophets telling me and others what God said, because we weren't worthy enough. Only the prophets are worthy, Christian, Muslim, or whathaveyou. Always only the prophets of the conflicting religions can talk to their individual and unique gods. And they're always a tad bit crazy... perhaps that's what was missing? I wasn't crazy enough to talk to God...
U can be a gnostic and talk to him
Don't worry
The path is open. Just needs a true man
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I'd prefer it be in myself, but I have a committee of voices in myself. I'm not sure which one is God.
I think that's how our consciousness works. There are thousands of "voices" in our head, competing for attention, and the only difference is that you can hear them all at once, while my brain filters out only one at a time. The same voices are most likely present in all of us, but only some can hear them all.

Relating to the question of God and talking to him/her/it. Wouldn't it be like that for God? Hearing all prayers at once?
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
If you want to know God's word, read the Koran

Speaking of polytheists in the Koran: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Allah wants me to punish Idolaters. That much is clear.

 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
U can be a gnostic and talk to him
Don't worry
The path is open. Just needs a true man
My search for God lasted for 50 years, and it ended right where I am right now, as a pantheist. It was the conclusion and culmination of my search. I know, in my heart, why I have to reject Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and other exclusive monotheisms, and why my belief fits me. Also, I know why my belief is more compatible with reality and science, and where things get more loosygoosy. But I'm okay with it. I'm not without a belief or religion, you and I just have different ones.

The way I'm talking to God is... like right now, talking to you. When I post and read, talk and listen, I communicate with God. Every action in life is communion with God.
 

interminable

منتظر
Speaking of polytheists in the Koran: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Allah wants me to punish Idolaters. That much is clear.

First read the interpretations of those verses then share them
I ask u

Can I go to India and kill a person without any reason and comeback home or not?

Answering to this question will show how much knowledge u have about Islam and its jurisprudence
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
First read the interpretations of those verses then share them
I ask u

Can I go to India and kill a person without any reason and comeback home or not?

Answering to this question will show how much knowledge u have about Islam and its jurisprudence
There is more than one interpretation of those verses. Who has the correct one?
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Answer my question please
No , you have to have a reason to kill them in the Koran. Idolatry is a valid reason to kill someone in the Koran.

Muhammad also personally decapitated people and destroyed artwork and sculptures that others found sacred. I guess that behavior is okay
 

buddhist

Well-Known Member
So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. ... Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.
I would suggest that "God" is revealed in the Laws governing Reality itself, laws which are plainly evident to everyone throughout space and time. No hierarchies or other intermediaries are needed to interpret these Laws, since we can all experience these Laws for ourselves. Thus, no blind faith is required either.

On the other hand, IMO the lesser, dogmatic rules given in alleged "holy books" - rules not plainly and personally evident to everyone - are the products of a malevolent or delusional lesser mind.

This perspective is in harmony with early Buddhism as I understand it.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?
In my observations of the Laws governing Reality, it seems to me that our purpose is to discern that suffering lies behind all things in this Reality; then, we are supposed to rediscover the middle way for ourselves - equanimity - the point of balance between aversion and attachment, and use the hammer of wisdom to free ourselves from delusions and sufferings to achieve the unalloyed, unlimited bliss and freedom of nibbana - the ultimate state reached by the Buddha and all arahants; perhaps this state can be called "God".
 
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