Why does God hide himself?

[Spiderman]

So, reading the Koran isn't enough after all. You have to have the right interpretation.

Who has the right interpretation? When I read the Koran it tells me very clearly to start killing people and cutting heads and limbs off.

Maybe that's not the best book for me?

 

[interminable]

No , you have to have a reason to kill them in the Koran. Idolatry is a valid reason to kill someone in the Koran.

Muhammad also personally decapitated people and destroyed artwork and sculptures that others found sacred. I guess that behavior is okay

Some of those verses are about war
Some about those who didn't keep their promises
Some are about hypocrites

And prophet did that because they couldn't reject him neither by reason nor by bringing miracles

 

[Spiderman]

Some of those verses are about war
Some about those who didn't keep their promises
Some are about hypocrites

And prophet did that because they couldn't reject him neither by reason nor by bringing miracles

Well, in some of those verses the Koran doesn't give the context, it just tells me to kill the idolaters.

Who is the official interpreter of the Koran?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'd prefer it be in myself, but I have a committee of voices in myself. I'm not sure which one is God.

This is not meant offensively. Your desire to be told what to do is analogous to a man desiring to re-enter his mother. Do you want to be an individual? Then do not try to get God to start talking in your head. You already know what God would say and if not you can figure it out, and that is about as close as God would come to extinguishing your own personality (in my honest and very experienced in this area, opinion). The alternatives I see to this are A. omniscience which you just cannot handle and B. Perfect knowledge of exactly what you should do at all important decision times, which makes you into a robot or insect. In both cases your mode of existence is extinguished, so you are basically objecting to your own presence.

 

[interminable]

Well, in some of those verses the Koran doesn't give the context, it just tells me to kill the idolaters.

Who is the official interpreter of the Koran?

Prophet himself and his pure progeny

Besides u need to be expert to understand all of them and conclude something

الممتحنة
لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (8)
الممتحنة
إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَىٰ إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَن تَوَلَّوْهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (9)

 

[interminable]

Well, in some of those verses the Koran doesn't give the context, it just tells me to kill the idolaters.

Who is the official interpreter of the Koran?

Prophet himself and his pure progeny

Besides u need to be expert to understand all of them and conclude something

الممتحنة
لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (8)
الممتحنة
إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَىٰ إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَن تَوَلَّوْهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (9)

 

[Spiderman]

If one person tells me to kill idolators and points to the verse in the Koran that tells me to, and you tell me that is not the proper context, where do I turn?

Either of you could be right. The Koran also condemns Christians (those who join associates with Allah) as Idolators btw.

 

[Ouroboros]

Well, in some of those verses the Koran doesn't give the context, it just tells me to kill the idolaters.

A religion which states to remove the threats of their belief is always a huge red flag to me. It's the same method con artists use to drag people into their schemes, and it's the same way some memes keep people hooked on lies in fear of being outsiders if they don't. That's why I called Islam an "exclusive" religion, just like Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, and many others. Its dogma doesn't include everyone under the same umbrella. It declares some fit or worthy and others not. And this has been one of the reasons we have wars, violence, terrorism, and so on in the world, and it's not just Islam, but Christianity and Judaism have the same history. Violence in the name of religion to keep the people in the fold. If religion needs violence to survive, then it's by default wrong in my opinion.

 

[Spiderman]

Prophet himself and his pure progeny

Besides u need to be expert to understand all of them and conclude something

الممتحنة
لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (8)
الممتحنة
إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَىٰ إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَن تَوَلَّوْهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (9)

So the prophet is the official interpreter, and he's dead. Now there is no official interpreter. This means everyone decides what the correct interpretation is and who has the right idea. What a mess!

 

[Fool]

So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

when dealing with data, its open to interpretation based upon the observers theory. Every observer isn't going to interpret the data exactly the same. There is a high probability but not an absolute.

 

[interminable]

So the prophet is the official interpreter, and he's dead. Now there is no official interpreter. This means everyone decides what the correct interpretation is and who has the right idea. What a mess!

His statements about verses of quran are recorded in books

Not everyone
The person that first is pious and second is knowledgeable enough to gather verses and then conclude

 

[Spiderman]

A religion which states to remove the threats of their belief is always a huge red flag to me. It's the same method con artists use to drag people into their schemes, and it's the same way some memes keep people hooked on lies in fear of being outsiders if they don't. That's why I called Islam an "exclusive" religion, just like Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, and many others. Its dogma doesn't include everyone under the same umbrella. It declares some fit or worthy and others not. And this has been one of the reasons we have wars, violence, terrorism, and so on in the world, and it's not just Islam, but Christianity and Judaism have the same history. Violence in the name of religion to keep the people in the fold. If religion needs violence to survive, then it's by default wrong in my opinion.

You are right , but Jesus did say love your enemies, turn the other cheek, let those who are without sin cast the first stone, forgive, and never once did Jesus commit violence. Imagine what Christianity would be if Christians followed his example.

 

[Ouroboros]

You are right , but Jesus did say love your enemies, turn the other cheek, let those who are without sin cast the first stone, forgive, and never once did Jesus commit violence. Imagine what Christianity would be if Christians followed his example.

So true. There's been times when I think that I'm more Christian than most Christians.

 

[Spiderman]

His statements about verses of quran are recorded in books

Not everyone
The person that first is pious and second is knowledgeable enough to gather verses and then conclude

So now it isn't just the Koran I need to know but the prophets statements about the Koran?

So he explains all those verses? Apparently a lot of Muslims don't know about those commentaries based on how much of the Islamic world behaves. The prophets comments are up for interpretation.

Btw, I've read just as many calls to violence in the hadiths.

Since the prophet destroyed idols and killed idolators and Jews, why can't I?

 

[interminable]

So now it isn't just the Koran I need to know but the prophets statements about the Koran?

So he explains all those verses? Apparently a lot of Muslims don't know about those commentaries based on how much of the Islamic world behaves. The prophets comments are up for interpretation.

Btw, I've read just as many calls to violence in the hadiths.

Since the prophet destroyed idols and killed idolators and Jews, why can't I?

I told u
The most important thing is to be pious
Then being knowledgeable enough to understand which verse in which situation and for whom has been revealed. And some traditions are forged so he could understand them too

And don't judge any religion by its followers's action
Wahabi Muslims are barely 1 % of Muslims
They interpret the quran as they wish
And considering that they are creatures of US u can understand how smart they are.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

You are right , but Jesus did say love your enemies, turn the other cheek, let those who are without sin cast the first stone, forgive, and never once did Jesus commit violence. Imagine what Christianity would be if Christians followed his example.

Probably the Christians would mostly have been forcibly converted to Islam. If Europeans had not fought the Muslim invaders in Spain, Italy, and Eastern Europe, Christianity in Europe would be in the same situation as it is in Egypt.

To return to the original question, why should the Creator reveal herself? The question seems to assume that she wants to be worshiped, which is surely rather anthropocentric. In fact, it's worse than that: I don't want to be worshiped (although proper deference is appreciated) and she is surely better than I am.

 

[Thanda]

So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

A parent may, after teaching a child many principles, give the child a period of freedom in order to decide for themselves what they want to do with those principles they have learnt. For this to be effective it is often necessary for the child to be physically away from the parent. The child can always contact the parent should they need advice (prayer) but the child is encourage to choose from themselves if and how they wish to live the principles they have been taught.

 

[Spiderman]

I told u
The most important thing is to be pious
Then being knowledgeable enough to understand which verse in which situation and for whom has been revealed. And some traditions are forged so he could understand them too

And don't judge any religion by its followers's action
Wahabi Muslims are barely 1 % of Muslims
They interpret the quran as they wish
And considering that they are creatures of US u can understand how smart they are.

But let's just say i have a strong desire to kill idolators and Jews. The holiest of prophets cut off their heads , so it can't be that bad if I do the same.

 

[interminable]

But let's just say i have a strong desire to kill idolators and Jews. The holiest of prophets cut off their heads , so it can't be that bad if I do the same.

I told u
They were in special circumstances

U can't kill even animals without a reason let alone human being

 

[oldbadger]

So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

Hi......
You're having a laugh, friend!
God isn't hiding self, you're just refusing to see God.
Since God is in everything you can either gaze out to the stars, it just look at your fingertips.
God is everywhere that you look.