Why does God hide himself?

[Ouroboros]

We have no challenges literally

U wanna say this infinite existent created or say is the source
For me doesn't matter.

Besides I haven't talked about the essence of this existent yet. So we can't say this existent is he or she or it.

So do u accept that this infinite existent is a source of everything???

Yes, in a way.

The difference here is that you choose to call just that, the infinite existence, God. I understand that, but my view of God is a bit bigger than that and beyond that. So to me, your argument doesn't prove God. To call it God is a choice, not a conclusion. Your belief is that this infinite existence that preexisted the universe is the same as God, I think God is more than that. It's not a proof for God. It's not evidence for God. It's only evidence for what the evidence shows, not what we believe that it should show to fit our belief. My point is... don't try to prove God, because different people have different views of what God is, and your proof only shows what you believe, but it doesn't prove God for everyone, especially people with different beliefs of what God is.

 

[interminable]

Yes, in a way.

The difference here is that you choose to call just that, the infinite existence, God. I understand that, but my view of God is a bit bigger than that and beyond that. So to me, your argument doesn't prove God. To call it God is a choice, not a conclusion. Your belief is that this infinite existence that preexisted the universe is the same as God, I think God is more than that. It's not a proof for God. It's not evidence for God. It's only evidence for what the evidence shows, not what we believe that it should show to fit our belief. My point is... don't try to prove God, because different people have different views of what God is, and your proof only shows what you believe, but it doesn't prove God for everyone, especially people with different beliefs of what God is.

Maybe u didn't contemplate about our previous posts

Didn't u accept that we can't have 2 infinite existents???
U wanna say maybe this infinite existent existed before big bang but how do we know maybe there is something before this infinite existent.

U wanna the above.


But I say again if u can't imagine 2 infinite existents at the same time clearly u can't imagine any existent before this infinite existent (I call it A ) because
Either this existent (B) is infinite or is limited

If B is infinite so u have to accept that A isn't infinite anymore because we can't imagine 2 infinite existents

If B is limited so u have to accept that there is somewhere that non existent existed while it's impossible because there is no where that non existent exists.
So u have to accept that we have only one infinite existent

Right??????

 

[Ouroboros]

Maybe u didn't contemplate about our previous posts

Didn't u accept that we can't have 2 infinite existents???
U wanna say maybe this infinite existent existed before big bang but how do we know maybe there is something before this infinite existent.

U wanna the above.


But I say again if u can't imagine 2 infinite existents at the same time clearly u can't imagine any existent before this infinite existent (I call it A ) because
Either this existent (B) is infinite or is limited

If B is infinite so u have to accept that A isn't infinite anymore because we can't imagine 2 infinite existents

If B is limited so u have to accept that there is somewhere that non existent existed while it's impossible because there is no where that non existent exists.
So u have to accept that we have only one infinite existent

Right??????

Agree.

But it is you, personally, who consider that infinite to be God. To prove infinite doesn't prove that infinite is the same as God.

Put it this way, isn't your God also benevolent and merciful? What does that have to do with infinite? It must be the exact same thing as infinite if infinite is the exact same thing as God. To prove God you have to prove that infinite mercy and infinite benevolence and infinite God being and infinite mind and infinite whatever God might be, all of it has to be proved as well. It's not enough to prove that the infinite existence is true.

 

[interminable]

Agree.

But it is you, personally, who consider that infinite to be God. To prove infinite doesn't prove that infinite is the same as God.

Put it this way, isn't your God also benevolent and merciful? What does that have to do with infinite? It must be the exact same thing as infinite if infinite is the exact same thing as God. To prove God you have to prove that infinite mercy and infinite benevolence and infinite God being and infinite mind and infinite whatever God might be, all of it has to be proved as well. It's not enough to prove that the infinite existence is true.

U r hasty

Did you accept that this infinite existent created everything or not????

 

[Ouroboros]

U r hasty

Did you accept that this infinite existent created everything or not????

No.

The "infinite existent" is just that. Since the proof to prove that infinite existence is true is based on the fact that time and actions can't be infinitely recursive backwards in time, it would prove that this infinite existence can't create as an action. It can only be the source. The pond from which the stuff came. It didn't decide at some time to create, because then the premise of finite universe would be based on a false assumption. So no, the source can't "create" as such, but it can be the source. It's like having an earthquake shaking a mountain so a rock comes loose and rolls down the hill. Did the earthquake create the rolling rock? No. It caused it and it was the source of the event, but it didn't create the rock, mountain, or such. And God, in my mind, is everything, all taken together, and the source of existence has not stopped being the source of new things. The Big Bang is still banging. It has never stopped. And what was before the start of the bang, was only pre-bang stuff. Eternal and infinite as such, but everything is natural, even before and after.

 

[Milton Platt]

This is just because to test people and more importantly Faith means to believe in something that isn't completely clear . If something is as clear as day there is no need to believe in . U have already gained certainty about it

Besides for thousands of time I repeated that God is immaterial and can't be seen by material things

Actually, the time to believe in something is precisely when it is clear that it is true. Faith is a poor vehicle for getting at the truth.

 

[Milton Platt]

So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

The invisible and the non-existent look a great deal alike, don't they???

 

[interminable]

No.

The "infinite existent" is just that. Since the proof to prove that infinite existence is true is based on the fact that time and actions can't be infinitely recursive backwards in time, it would prove that this infinite existence can't create as an action. It can only be the source. The pond from which the stuff came. It didn't decide at some time to create, because then the premise of finite universe would be based on a false assumption. So no, the source can't "create" as such, but it can be the source. It's like having an earthquake shaking a mountain so a rock comes loose and rolls down the hill. Did the earthquake create the rolling rock? No. It caused it and it was the source of the event, but it didn't create the rock, mountain, or such. And God, in my mind, is everything, all taken together, and the source of existence has not stopped being the source of new things. The Big Bang is still banging. It has never stopped. And what was before the start of the bang, was only pre-bang stuff. Eternal and infinite as such, but everything is natural, even before and after.

As I told u before I've no problem with the word source or creation

Something that u forgot is that we are talking about 1 infinite existent that has no beginning no ending. But u suppose (as u made an example about earthquake) that this infinite is a source of somethings that they no longer need to this infinite existent to continue to exist. And this is your mistake.
Everything except this infinite existent is dependent. We have only one independent existent. And as I represented before we have one necessary existent that is independent and others are dependent and possible. They are always possible. They can't turn into necessary existent because existence isn't their essence rather they borrowed it from infinite existent.

 

[sovietchild]

In this video the helicopter propeller is spinning so fast you can barely see it.

 

[interminable]

Actually, the time to believe in something is precisely when it is clear that it is true. Faith is a poor vehicle for getting at the truth.

True
If we base our faith on logic arguments I mean if we prove the existence of God by logical arguments then having faith has no problem

 

[Tabu]

So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

The ability , the light to distinguish between useful and harmful ,discern between right or wrong is within us.
We have covered it with layers of false self identities that this spring of life is unable gush forth and irrigate our barren lives.
BrahmaKumaris teach those techniques by which one can peel off those multiple outer layers and unleash the inner powers and cultivate and harvest peace and happiness in our lives.
Once the inner mirror is wiped clean it reflects the Source , where upon it becomes light upon light and everything bright.