Why does God not talk to us?

[URAVIP2ME]

Sure-- so what? Did he stay dead? No? Ooops! No actual sacrifice!

Since God resurrected Jesus back into his pre-human heavenly spirit body, then Jesus' physical body was sacrificed.
Some parents ' sacrifice a lot of money ' to send a child to college. To me that is a sacrifice even though the child did Not remain in college but graduated. God resurrecting the faithful dead Jesus shows Jesus was Not left in the grave but graduated to the next level aka heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

NONE of the above explains: WHY AM I TO BE PUNISHED FOR SOMETHING ADAM DID?
Seriously-- I'd love to see an answer.

You are Not punished for what father Adam did.
Adam died because of his own sins.
You die because of your own sins.
Simply stop sinning and you will Not die.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Since God resurrected Jesus back into his pre-human heavenly spirit body, then Jesus' physical body was sacrificed.
Some parents ' sacrifice a lot of money ' to send a child to college. To me that is a sacrifice even though the child did Not remain in college but graduated. God resurrecting the faithful dead Jesus shows Jesus was Not left in the grave but graduated to the next level aka heaven.

Whatever. According to the myth, there was no actual death. Since, also according to the myth, a death HAD to have happened in order for the god in question to have enough "god juice" to manage a wee bit of forgiving?

Then there could be no actual forgiving going on, as there's no actual death.

At most, Jesus was mildly inconvenienced. I don't think god forgives for a mere mild inconveniencing.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You are Not punished for what father Adam did.
Adam died because of his own sins.
You die because of your own sins.
Simply stop sinning and you will Not die.

That's not what the bible actually says.

In any case? Without Magic, then the word "sin" has no meaning.

Moreover? If you strip Magic out of the equation? I have not actually sinned...

ooops!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Whatever. According to the myth, there was no actual death. Since, also according to the myth, a death HAD to have happened in order for the god in question to have enough "god juice" to manage a wee bit of forgiving?

According to the Holy Bible I find Jesus was dead for parts of three days.
So, dead Jesus was dead before God resurrected the dead Jesus out of the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.

No animal, No sinning human, could correspond to equal a before-sinning Adam.
We can Not balance the ' scales of justice ' because we sin.
None of us can compare to a 'sinless Adam'. A Adam before he broke God's Law.
Jesus as a sinless human could compare, correspond, to a sinless Adam.
Adam proved unfaithful in least.
Jesus proved faithful in much.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved faithful to God thus showing Adam under favorable conditions could have proved faithful to God if he wanted to to.
Adam and Eve were created with upright leanings. Jesus was created with upright leanings.
For that matter, Satan too was created with upright leanings. Both Satan and Adam and Eve chose to lean towards wrongdoing. Since we were born after sinless Adam sinned then we inherited Adam's leanings toward wrongdoing. So, that has nothing to do with forgiving, but that God provided a way out for us right from the start at Genesis 3:15's prophecy of a promised ' seed ' (Messiah) to come and undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

According to the Holy Bible I find Jesus was dead for parts of three days.
So, dead Jesus was dead before God resurrected the dead Jesus out of the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.

No animal, No sinning human, could correspond to equal a before-sinning Adam.
We can Not balance the ' scales of justice ' because we sin.
None of us can compare to a 'sinless Adam'. A Adam before he broke God's Law.
Jesus as a sinless human could compare, correspond, to a sinless Adam.
Adam proved unfaithful in least.
Jesus proved faithful in much.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved faithful to God thus showing Adam under favorable conditions could have proved faithful to God if he wanted to to.
Adam and Eve were created with upright leanings. Jesus was created with upright leanings.
For that matter, Satan too was created with upright leanings. Both Satan and Adam and Eve chose to lean towards wrongdoing. Since we were born after sinless Adam sinned then we inherited Adam's leanings toward wrongdoing. So, that has nothing to do with forgiving, but that God provided a way out for us right from the start at Genesis 3:15's prophecy of a promised ' seed ' (Messiah) to come and undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.

Nope. Not actually dead-- dead is forever as far as anyone can tell, and as far as actual evidence shows.

A mildly unpleasant weekend? Big Woop.

As for "sin"? If you strip out all the Magic Woojum? I have not actually sinned!

What now?

SIN==> Self-Inflicted Nonsense. Without a Magic Soul? It has no weight, no meaning, no hold on anyone.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That's not what the bible actually says.

Any comments about Ezekiel 18:20 because I find it say the son will Not bear the sins of the father, etc. _____
Any thoughts about 2 Chronicles 25:4 B _______
Any opinion about Deuteronomy 24:16 ______
Because if that's Not what the Bible actually says, then please say what it actually is saying.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nope. Not actually dead-- dead is forever as far as anyone can tell, and as far as actual evidence shows.
Without a Magic Soul? It has no weight, no meaning, no hold on anyone.

Of course, dead is forever or permanent without a resurrection.
The resurrections that Jesus performed were a small sample, or a coming attraction preview of what is going to take place on a grand international scale during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

I find according to Genesis 2:7 Adam had No Magic Soul. Rather, after God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam, then Adam became a living soul. So, Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.
The soul that sins ( Adam sinned by breaking the law ) so the soul that sins dies as per Ezekiel 18:4,20.
We don't call breaking the law as sinning but a crime.
For example: If you break the speed-limit law you are Not considered as committing a sin but committing a crime.
No one says one is sinning against the motor-vehicle code but in effect a speeding ticket says they are.
So, just a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Of course, dead is forever or permanent without a resurrection.
The resurrections that Jesus performed were a small sample, or a coming attraction preview of what is going to take place on a grand international scale during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

I find according to Genesis 2:7 Adam had No Magic Soul. Rather, after God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam, then Adam became a living soul. So, Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.
The soul that sins ( Adam sinned by breaking the law ) so the soul that sins dies as per Ezekiel 18:4,20.
We don't call breaking the law as sinning but a crime.
For example: If you break the speed-limit law you are Not considered as committing a sin but committing a crime.
No one says one is sinning against the motor-vehicle code but in effect a speeding ticket says they are.
So, just a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick.

Not buying it. You haven't shown that a Magical Soul-thingy is real.

Until you do? All you said is simply conjecture.

Used to keep gullible people in line, and to keep filling the coffers of religion through guilt.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, in hindsight, they were all one-sided. I now understand the power of the human brain to create self-delusional states.

What made me continue to lose my faith, was all external-- it was never internal dialog.

For starters? The bible itself was part of the process-- I came to realize that I absolutely could not respect that book as a cause for anything good. There was simply too much evil in it's pages.

The worst evil of them all? The whole "you must be redeemed" shtick: this is basically teaching people that they are worthless, worth less than pond scum, and somehow deserving of infinite punishment.

"But-but-but-- there is no hell" Well? If that's the case? Why go thorough that horrific narrative of a brutal murder as some sort of "ultimate sacrifice" in the fist place? Why even permit such a horrible story to become central to the christian biblical theme?

Either way it's sliced, the bible's central theme is horrible, and paints a portrait of a being who's so narcissistic and victim-blaming, that it cannot simply forgive people for being... **exactly** as they were created to be!

The very fact that this ugly book-- this "bible" even exists at all, tells me without doubt, that there cannot possibly be a good god who cares about the fate of humans, and is in a position to do anything about it.

Are your experiences the only valid experiences? I can accept your experiences were one-sided, why does your anecdotal experience automatically invalidate my experience with Christ? Is that a scientific, rationalist or considerate perspective, that your experiences (God didn't answer me) are the only valid experiences?

If that's true, that your experiences the only valid experiences, are the Moon landings hoaxed or do you accept that Neil Armstrong really had an experience on our heavenly neighbor?

As for the Bible, your statement, "Why go thorough that horrific narrative of a brutal murder as some sort of "ultimate sacrifice" in the fist place? Why even permit such a horrible story to become central to the christian biblical theme?" reads to me as "God didn't so salvation my way, so God must be wrong," to which I respectfully reply:

Are your experiences the only valid experiences? I can accept that parts of the Bible tick you off, so is the Creator allowed to put forth different doctrines than you? Jesus doesn't do everything the way I like, either, but I give Him credence, deference, even worship.

Also, where does the Bible teach that people are "worthless"? I get instead that we are beautiful creations in God's image, given much power and intellect, and asked to be accountable for the same. Does human society ask less of its own citizens?

I can read where God grieves over the death of the wicked, and withholds judgment, patiently--never considering us worthless but sending the Christ to a death by torture--an innocent--because we are of near-infinite worth.

You are on a public forum telling people you're ticked at the evil Bible and the evil Jesus--no bolt of lightning strikes you, sir! Why, God is so patient, you might someday become a great salvation testimony IMHO, like the apostle Paul!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Are your experiences the only valid experiences? I can accept your experiences were one-sided, why does your anecdotal experience automatically invalidate my experience with Christ? Is that a scientific, rationalist or considerate perspective, that your experiences (God didn't answer me) are the only valid experiences?.

Because my experiences are in congruence with actual reality? And yours require Magic to be valid?

That could be a large part of the difference. We know people are capable of dreaming and self-delusion.

Ample proof of that. What is lacking? Is proof of MAGIC or magical Souls--both are requirements for your "experiences" to be valid.

BUT NEVERMIND THAT-- You did not actually address my arguments -- you went on the ATTACK.

Attack the messenger-- logical fallacy.

If that's true, that your experiences the only valid experiences, are the Moon landings hoaxed or do you accept that Neil Armstrong really had an experience on our heavenly neighbor?.

False Equivalency Logical Fallacy. We have external proofs of lunar landings. We have-- actual telescopic proof that they went to the moon and back. We have LASERs that have beamed up to the site of the landings, struck a reflector placed there for JUST such a purpose, and timed it's return. With the reflector? The LASER is just scattered on the face of the moon, and does not return with sufficient energy.

I have seen this experiment performed, actually-- it's real. A relatively low powered LASER is all you need, and the coordinates of the landings on the face of the moon. (Easily obtainable). Aim the LASER at the wrong part of the moon? Nothing. Aim it at the landing site? Return signal in a few seconds.

We have proof of Armstrong's activities-- well beyond anything he has said. The same cannot be said of your ... ahem... "experiences with christ".

As for the Bible, your statement, "Why go thorough that horrific narrative of a brutal murder as some sort of "ultimate sacrifice" in the fist place? Why even permit such a horrible story to become central to the christian biblical theme?" reads to me as "God didn't so salvation my way, so God must be wrong," to which I respectfully reply:

Are your experiences the only valid experiences? I can accept that parts of the Bible tick you off, so is the Creator allowed to put forth different doctrines than you? Jesus doesn't do everything the way I like, either, but I give Him credence, deference, even worship..

Here? You in NO WAY attempt to explain why a BRUTAL MURDER is necessary. Apart from a very childish "Nu-unnn" sort of "not argument"

In fact, apart from (essentially) "Nun-unn!" you don't even try...

The Logical Fallacy here? Is Blame The Messenger-- you denigrate me, instead of attacking my criticism.

You ignore my criticism to 100%.

Also, where does the Bible teach that people are "worthless"? I get instead that we are beautiful creations in God's image, given much power and intellect, and asked to be accountable for the same. Does human society ask less of its own citizens?.

Over and over the bible hammers that message home: Worthless-- Less than Pond Scum! That's why we are "deserving" of "infinite suffering"... right? Why ELSE would a BRUTAL SACRIFICE NEED BE MADE, UNLESS WE WERE HORRIBLE, WORTHLESS CREATURES?

I can read where God grieves over the death of the wicked, and withholds judgment, patiently--never considering us worthless but sending the Christ to a death by torture--an innocent--because we are of near-infinite worth..

*sigh* .... "withhold judgement" -- THAT RIGHT THERE! Is language stating "we are horrific creatures, DESERVING of infinite torment"

You are on a public forum telling people you're ticked at the evil Bible and the evil Jesus--no bolt of lightning strikes you, sir! Why, God is so patient, you might someday become a great salvation testimony IMHO, like the apostle Paul!

LMAO! No bolt of lightning strikes me because there is no actual authority capable of doing so.

BUT YOU DID ASK-- lest you forget! So it's a bit disingenuous of you to complain about it NOW.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Because my experiences are in congruence with actual reality? And yours require Magic to be valid?

That could be a large part of the difference. We know people are capable of dreaming and self-delusion.

Ample proof of that. What is lacking? Is proof of MAGIC or magical Souls--both are requirements for your "experiences" to be valid.

BUT NEVERMIND THAT-- You did not actually address my arguments -- you went on the ATTACK.

Attack the messenger-- logical fallacy.



False Equivalency Logical Fallacy. We have external proofs of lunar landings. We have-- actual telescopic proof that they went to the moon and back. We have LASERs that have beamed up to the site of the landings, struck a reflector placed there for JUST such a purpose, and timed it's return. With the reflector? The LASER is just scattered on the face of the moon, and does not return with sufficient energy.

I have seen this experiment performed, actually-- it's real. A relatively low powered LASER is all you need, and the coordinates of the landings on the face of the moon. (Easily obtainable). Aim the LASER at the wrong part of the moon? Nothing. Aim it at the landing site? Return signal in a few seconds.

We have proof of Armstrong's activities-- well beyond anything he has said. The same cannot be said of your ... ahem... "experiences with christ".



Here? You in NO WAY attempt to explain why a BRUTAL MURDER is necessary. Apart from a very childish "Nu-unnn" sort of "not argument"

In fact, apart from (essentially) "Nun-unn!" you don't even try...

The Logical Fallacy here? Is Blame The Messenger-- you denigrate me, instead of attacking my criticism.

You ignore my criticism to 100%.



Over and over the bible hammers that message home: Worthless-- Less than Pond Scum! That's why we are "deserving" of "infinite suffering"... right? Why ELSE would a BRUTAL SACRIFICE NEED BE MADE, UNLESS WE WERE HORRIBLE, WORTHLESS CREATURES?



*sigh* .... "withhold judgement" -- THAT RIGHT THERE! Is language stating "we are horrific creatures, DESERVING of infinite torment"



LMAO! No bolt of lightning strikes me because there is no actual authority capable of doing so.

BUT YOU DID ASK-- lest you forget! So it's a bit disingenuous of you to complain about it NOW.

1) I am continuing to be patient, respectful, thoughtful in my responses, you are attacking: proof of the Bible where it states how skeptics behave. Refrain, prove the Bible wrong, show you have self-control and patience without the Spirit.

2) I never attacked you, and stand respectfully in recognition of what are sensitive subjects for you. Case in point. When you said my faith was nothing because of what you did not receive from the Lord, I asked you a question: "Are your experiences the only valid experiences?" and you responded, "You're attacking me." If my asking you a question is an attack . . .

3) It's not denigrating you or blaming the messenger or goal post shifting to ask you questions, I'm sure of it, particularly when my questions are thoughtful, polite.

Since you accuse me, I'll restate: Your experiences are valid, but not universal. I have had many encounters with Jesus Christ. And I have in the past explained why Jesus died a horrific death, and to you personally, I believe. I'll restate:

1) Sin is very bad and prevalent, the human condition--a lot of theologians agree that the horrible death by torture the innocent Christ suffered shows us how horrible sin's consequences can be.

2) No one can be in a utopia as "an average person" or even "and ideal person". I would muss up a utopia by being . . . me.

3) The Bible claims that Christ's atoning death and resurrection are transformative. Anyone who trusts Him for salvation will . . . in the future . . . be transformed to no longer sin against conscience, hurting others just because "we know it's wrong but it feels good to hurt others", thus enabling them to live in utopia.

Birds and bees and fish can be in utopia, not humans. As for the death of Christ:

1) Everyone has to die, looks like.

2) There is no problem of evil, like Jesus being murdered or suffering onto death, if we're atheist/evolutionist. Pain is a part of what life is, and those who are dead and go to nothing feel neither love nor pain in the grave. Their pain is meaningless.

3) The Christian is able to say evil is a "thing" and also can even have purpose. The Bible says that what man means for evil God can use for good--Christ's death is THE example of this.

4) Jesus volunteered to die for us.

5) I don't believe in infinite torment. I do believe in eternal torment, which is different. A small toothache is a distraction, but I can still go to work and be a good husband despite a toothache. An eternal toothache is not an "infinite toothache".

6) Your clear statements that some amounts of pain and evil are tolerable and some are wrong is based on what, exactly? Life has no meaning--ultimately--for the skeptic. Not an attack, just the logical extension of your philosophy. Am I wrong?

7) Is there any excuse for saying "Oh, I knew the big bully would torture me for four hours, but I stuck my finger in his eye regardless, because he's a jerk." Is that how logical people behave while being self-preservationist? Sorry, I don't think God's a bully but if you do, you have no excuse for sticking your finger in his eye, and the Bible says people can reach a hardened point where God will not be allowed in their lives because of their self-will [shudder!].

8) Why does the brutal death of Christ make us scum? No one goes to such lengths for the worthless--the Bible says rather--I think you've read this there--the love of Christ put Him on that cross, love for the weak, the poor in spirit, the downtrodden--US.

I apologize if I offended you with my last post or this one. But I will NOT apologize for speaking truth to you in love, truth as I understand and believe it.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

[Muffled]

Why does God act as if he is non existent?

I believe I am willing to talk to you anytime.

 

[Muffled]

If God did talk to you, how could you be certain it was God?

I believe the best way to get to know God is by reading the Bible. So the answer is by what He says.

 

[Muffled]

The gods communicate with me constantly in various ways. The god of the Bible doesn't, but I wouldn't expect it to since that god isn't part of my religion.

I can't remember a god saying anything but I accede to your understanding when you present an instance.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe the best way to get to know God is by reading the Bible. So the answer is by what He says.

That's true in my experience. The more involved, the more I learned about a religion, the more God took on aspects ascribed to God by that religion.

So perhaps in a way God becomes whatever you need God to be. Our belief/faith seems to influence the experience.

 

[syo]

Why does God act as if he is non existent?

The Christian one? Jesus came to earth. And when he left, he sent the Holy Spirit. And God performs miracles. Particularly miracles concerning health problems.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

1) I am continuing to be patient, respectful, thoughtful in my responses, you are attacking: proof of the Bible where it states how skeptics behave. Refrain, prove the Bible wrong, show you have self-control and patience without the Spirit..

Nope. That's not how it works. The bible is assumed to be false-- unless you can prove otherwise with non-bible sources. So far? Fail-- the bible remains false (it's the claim, and cannot be proof of itself).

2) I never attacked you, and stand respectfully in recognition of what are sensitive subjects for you. Case in point. When you said my faith was nothing because of what you did not receive from the Lord, I asked you a question: "Are your experiences the only valid experiences?" and you responded, "You're attacking me." If my asking you a question is an attack . . ..

I'm sure you think you did not-- but, in fact, that's the sum of your counter-"argument". You 100% ignore the content of my criticism, as you continue to do here-- instead focusing on personal attacks.

3) It's not denigrating you or blaming the messenger or goal post shifting to ask you questions, I'm sure of it, particularly when my questions are thoughtful, polite..

I'm certain you believe that. But I've yet to see substantive counter-argument to my criticism-- in fact, you don't mention my criticisms at all-- those, you ignore, and LASER-in on attacking my credibility/integrety instead.

Not good.

Since you accuse me, I'll restate: Your experiences are valid, but not universal. I have had many encounters with Jesus Christ. And I have in the past explained why Jesus died a horrific death, and to you personally, I believe. I'll restate:

1) Sin is very bad and prevalent, the human condition--a lot of theologians agree that the horrible death by torture the innocent Christ suffered shows us how horrible sin's consequences can be..

A) Why? Why is sin so horrible? Is not your god capable of making a better way? No?

And why such brutality? Why not simply forgive, instead? Instead of this R-rated gratuitous display of torture-porn....

B) An immortal being cannot actually *die*, can it? Nope-- it specifically shows Jesus did not actually die.

Thus? No sacrifice of any sort-- humans have been tortured far worse, and for far longer than an hour or so in the afternoon. Jesus, being Immortal, was at worst, mildly inconvenienced. To an IMMORTAL? Less bothersome than an itchy mosquito bite...

You seem to continue to ignore this glaring failure in your narrative. Why is that?

2) No one can be in a utopia as "an average person" or even "and ideal person". I would muss up a utopia by being . . . me. .

What? This non-sequitur makes absolutely no sense, here, in this narrative....

In any case? Are humans created by your god or NOT? Why did your god deliberatetely create such fatally flawed beings in the first place? No-- Free Will doesn't excuse this near-absolute FAILURE on the part of your creator-god!

Every person ending up in hell? Is 100% the fault of your creator-god's failure to have created superior beings in the first place!

The fact your bible clearly states that something like 90% will end up in hell? That's 90% FAIL on your god's part...!

Either your god IS all-knowing, or it isn't. If it IS? Hell was deliberate and with malicious intent.

3) The Bible claims that Christ's atoning death and resurrection are transformative. Anyone who trusts Him for salvation will . . . in the future . . . be transformed to no longer sin against conscience, hurting others just because "we know it's wrong but it feels good to hurt others", thus enabling them to live in utopia..

Yadda-yadda-yadda-yadda. That in no way excuses the deliberate, malicious use of brutal torture/murder...

Does it?

Birds and bees and fish can be in utopia, not humans.
.

You've never been stung by a bee? Or pecked by a Blue-Jay? Or smelled the utter stench that wafts around buzzards? Or watched the delightful trickery of crows and black birds?

That's a mighty .... "interesting" use of the word ... "utopia" you got there... methinks you didn't think this through very deeply...

As for the death of Christ:

1) Everyone has to die, looks like..

Except for Immortal Beings-- who, by definition, cannot actually die. So it looks like: NOT REALLY.

2) There is no problem of evil, like Jesus being murdered or suffering onto death, if we're atheist/evolutionist. Pain is a part of what life is, and those who are dead and go to nothing feel neither love nor pain in the grave. Their pain is meaningless..

Well, all life is meaningless, if placed against the 15 billion year age, and 15 billion light-year size of the visible universe...

... or? Life is as Meaningful as you DECIDE it is. That's the beauty of being self-aware: We can easily choose Life's Meanings to be whatever we want. No need to invoke unproven Magic Beings.

3) The Christian is able to say evil is a "thing" and also can even have purpose. The Bible says that what man means for evil God can use for good--Christ's death is THE example of this..

Once again? Your bible MUST rise to at least the level of modern morality and ethics.

It does not do so, in may important ways. Humans have improved both since the bible was first written down, some 1720 years ago (Council of Nicea). We Got Better at this thing called Civilization.

We are Better People than the ancient bronze-age goat herders who inspired the bible's words-- alas, they did not even understand where the sun went at night, so we should probably give them a bit of an excuse.

Alas, the same cannot be said for modern people who still cling to a book that describes the best way to buy slaves, why it's ethical to sell your children into slavery to eliminate debt and other depravities...

4) Jesus volunteered to die for us..

So? Immortal Being. No big deal for such a being, barely qualifies as a "scratch".

5) I don't believe in infinite torment. I do believe in eternal torment, which is different. A small toothache is a distraction, but I can still go to work and be a good husband despite a toothache. An eternal toothache is not an "infinite toothache"..

Your bible vehemently disagrees with you, sadly. In this instance? You are MORE MORAL than your bible! Good!

6) Your clear statements that some amounts of pain and evil are tolerable and some are wrong is based on what, exactly? Life has no meaning--ultimately--for the skeptic. Not an attack, just the logical extension of your philosophy. Am I wrong?.

You are wrong, for you fail to recognize the obvious: Morality exists because Humans have Decided it exists. Same goes for Ethics. Collectively, humans as a species, have come up with both concepts, and continually improve them over the hundreds of passing decades. This is why ancient books of Superstition (wherein slaves are legal, etc) are no longer Applicable in the Modern Age.

We humans are BETTER than the ugly bible's ancient morality and ethics-- YOU EVEN ADMIT THIS, when you so casually tossed out all the bible verses describing infinite torment...

7) Is there any excuse for saying "Oh, I knew the big bully would torture me for four hours, but I stuck my finger in his eye regardless, because he's a jerk." Is that how logical people behave while being self-preservationist? Sorry, I don't think God's a bully but if you do, you have no excuse for sticking your finger in his eye, and the Bible says people can reach a hardened point where God will not be allowed in their lives because of their self-will [shudder!]..

LMAO! Dude! I do not for a New York Second, believe there are ANY gods behind the bible! It's simply too evil!

If there actually were? Such gods would have surely wiped us all out AGAIN-- it's obvious the bible's god has an UNCONTROLLABLE TEMPER. Story after story, where bible-god loses his collective sh--- and commands, "KILL THEM ALL-- LEAVE NO ONE UN-KILLED. EVEN THE CHILDREN"

If I was worried about such an evil being? I'd not be an atheist, now would I?

Here: I Challenge the Bible God to Smite Me Down. This will be the ... what? 1943d such challenge I've issued since roughly 2005. Still here. No smiting.

It seems that the bible's god isn't in the Smiting Business any longer-- now that we have Scientific Methodology working for us.....

.... Coincidence?

8) Why does the brutal death of Christ make us scum? No one goes to such lengths for the worthless--the Bible says rather--I think you've read this there--the love of Christ put Him on that cross, love for the weak, the poor in spirit, the downtrodden--US..

No-no- you mis-characterize what I said. The bible's principle narrative? Is that people are EVIL and will always do BAD, and other horrible things.

That whole "Are You Saved" or "Are You Redeemed" or other ugly language, that sends the priciple message: "YOU ARE WORTHLESS. YOU ARE BORN EVIL. YOU ARE POND-SCUM-- NO-- LESS THAN POND SCUM. NO WONDER GOD HATES YOU ENOUGH TO CREATE INFINITE TORTURE IF YOU DON'T LOVE HIM BACK"

A more horrific message I cannot think, to teach to a small child....

I apologize if I offended you with my last post or this one. But I will NOT apologize for speaking truth to you in love, truth as I understand and believe it.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Oh, I am so sorry if you took me to be ... offended! Far from it. I enjoyed stretching my theological "legs" a bit-- you made me re-consider exactly how to write in such a way to get my criticisms across a very formidable barrier. You likely grew up with all the ugly language of the bible, and don't see it as anything other than "normal".

I was like you, you know, not all that long ago-- barely over a decade, in fact. It took a strong, re-examination of the bible, before I realized how ugly, how abusive it's core messages really are.

I had to go through a mental cleaning process, to get rid of my "it's always been this way" that had been brainwashed into me from birth. Not easy to do-- not everyone can re-examine the assumptions they were taught as little children... and I'm certain *I* haven't completed my process! I'm quite sure I have assumptions from a child, that are quite wrong...

It's part of being human: We cannot truly "step outside of ourselves"...

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

God is ambiguous...He is not a person living on our planet with an address and phone number or Facebook account.

He does, too! I LOVE His posts.
https://www.facebook.com/TheGoodLordAbove/

The greatest gift is salvation and we would not know nothing of it unless scripture revealed it.

How did God reveal things prior to scripture?

His once for all sacrifice is done for all who believe and repent and obey.

Then he shouldn't have to come back, right?

So, god is much-much weaker than us humans?

This is a God who can't tell a Hebrew from an Egyptian without them painting a doorway with blood. One wonders if Egyptians figured out what the gang tags meant and just painted their walls with blood since obviously God was clueless.

On one hand it can be argued that He doesn't always exist but must be summoned.

Like that?

Ever think God is talking but people are just not listening?

Maybe He quit after people invented Klingon, because they killed their gods for being inconvenient.

Love is not selfish.

But the bible acts like all God wants us for is to pat Him on the back for eternity.

Here: I Challenge the Bible God to Smite Me Down. This will be the ... what? 1943d such challenge I've issued since roughly 2005. Still here. No smiting.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEdv61NbVXEhteU9O/giphy.gif

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Why does God act as if he is non existent?

I try to talk to God, but all I want to talk about our my anime waifu's. God being gender less doesn't understand so the conversation ends up going no where.