Why does God not talk to us?

[URAVIP2ME]

So, god is much-much weaker than us humans?
Who can not only overlook "sin" in others, but can see past the surface dirt, and find the good that is deep within?

I find since Jesus died for everyone as per 1 John 1:7, then God did overlook sin.....
God saw past the ' surface dirt ' of sin (Adamic sin) and sent Jesus to Earth to random us as per Matthew 20:28.
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or anyone else we need someone who can resurrect us.
According to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will resurrect people.
So, Jesus sees the good that is deep within, but also sees when a person is beyond reform.
That is why the executional words from Jesus' mouth will only rid the Earth of the wicked as per Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Proverbs 2:21-22.
We ALL have two (2) choices as per 2 Peter 3:9 to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' ( be destroyed ).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well, Love Conquers All, according to the various "experts" in the field.
Alas, looking about the planet? It's not always the case-- more often than not, it's **money** that conquers things, creating vast areas of helplessness and misery. Makes me wonder, if there be a god who cared? Why permit such legions of suffering, who live for generations without relief?

I find God had to ' permit ' (allow) man to govern himself.
When Adam broke God's Law, then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law in man's hands.
Adam set up ' People Rule ' as superior to ' God Rule '.
The passing of time was needed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Also, remember as per Genesis 1:28 we are to populate the Earth being descendants of father Adam and mother Eve.
Mankind's long history has proven that man can Not successfully govern himself.
Or, as King Solomon observed at Ecclesiastes 8:9 that 'man' dominates man to man's injury or hurt.
So, it is man by ignoring the Golden Rule who ' created ' vast areas of helplessness and misery.
ALL suffering is soon to end because Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefit of healing as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nobody knows where God is or what God is doing at any time because God is unknowable, a Mystery of Mysteries, but we say God is in the spiritual realm because we know God is not in the material realm, and the spiritual realm is all-inclusive of everything that is not the material realm... But given God is omnipresent God can be everywhere all at once. How that is possible is not something we humans can comprehend.

That depends upon what you consider real.
I believe the spiritual world is very real even though we cannot prove it as a fact.

There is evidence that the spiritual realm actually exists, even if there is no scientific proof.

No, there is no proof that God exists in reality; there is only evidence that indicates that. That evidence comes to us by way of religions that are revealed by God to Messengers.

You can call god that if that is how you see it. I see God as existent so I consider Him real.

Enterjecting, if thats even a word

How do you know if god exist and sacred books speak of a real god when

1. God is a mystery (cant describe the nature of a mystery; it ceases to be a mystery)

2. Its not prat of the material world (so it cannot be experienced by the five senses to which our senses can interpret correctly a feeling being from god or from our mind

3. God only exist in concrete form during a specific time period and stops short of any concrete definition

4. Messengers only speak by the voices of the believers (dead people cant talk)

5. God is in a spiritual realm to which is a mystery but only recently the human messengers can experience what we cannot making the messengers only a thousand so years ago gods.

6. There is no scientific (concrete proof) thats not based on historical cocnlusions and interpretations of people in the human realm-prophets included.

To proove god is hanging around (literally?) we need to at least

1. Come up with a common definition of god. If god is the same in all religions, the common thread cannot be said to exist but at the sametime its a mystery to which no believer Knows it exists outside prophets and culture

2. Explain god separate from material world understandngs and objects of him (material objects/sacred books can describe a mystery but when asked if god is material, the answer is always no)

Logically (not spiritually) god cannot exists ouside a belief, claim, or faith. No knowledge. You cant claim something exists but at the same time say its a mystery which voids the evidence of its existence because you dont know how to explain its nature

Sacred books dont help because they are not part of a spiritual realm. They were put together by humans and god inspires them as he inspires people today; there is no time gap between god in BC and late AD and even in the 19th century! and today. Its one reality; one time period

So, by what nature does god exist beyond what you and the prophets describe about him?

Can a mystery, by definition, exist as a person when that person or thing cannot be confirmed because its a mystery?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nobody knows where God is or what God is doing at any time because God is unknowable, a Mystery of Mysteries, but we say God is in the spiritual realm because we know God is not in the material realm, and the spiritual realm is all-inclusive of everything that is not the material realm... But given God is omnipresent God can be everywhere all at once.

I find according to 1 Kings 8:39,49 that God's has a specific heavenly (spirit realm) location or home.
So, God is Not everywhere, we pray to our Father in Heaven, and Not pray to our Father who is everywhere.
The heavenly Jesus appeared before the person of God in heaven as per Hebrews 9:24.

 

[Trailblazer]

I find according to 1 Kings 8:39,49 that God's has a specific heavenly (spirit realm) location or home.
So, God is Not everywhere, we pray to our Father in Heaven, and Not pray to our Father who is everywhere.
The heavenly Jesus appeared before the person of God in heaven as per Hebrews 9:24.

That's true, God exists in the heavenly realm, or the spiritual realm as I call it...
So what do you believe that it means to say God is omnipresent?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There is evidence that the spiritual realm actually exists, even if there is no scientific proof.

The above sentence is internally contradictory... if there is no scientific "proof" (a gross mischaracterization of what science is, actually) then there is no evidence.

Basically, if you cannot measure something in some way? It's not evidence, it's just messing around....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I find since Jesus died for everyone as per 1 John 1:7, then God did overlook sin......

Did he actually stay dead? So there was no actual dying here... was there.

Ooops ! Everyone is still guilty of sin...

God saw past the ' surface dirt ' of sin (Adamic sin) and sent Jesus to Earth to random us as per Matthew 20:28..

But -- there was no sacrifice! Didn't stay dead! People were not, in fact, "ransomed" (I'm assuming that's what you meant, not "random" )

Since we can Not resurrect oneself or anyone else we need someone who can resurrect us.
According to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will resurrect people..

Well, sure! If you believe in a book that was, by all accounts, not supposed to be IN the bible! Ooops!

So, Jesus sees the good that is deep within, but also sees when a person is beyond reform.
That is why the executional words from Jesus' mouth will only rid the Earth of the wicked as per Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Proverbs 2:21-22.
We ALL have two (2) choices as per 2 Peter 3:9 to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' ( be destroyed ).

Repent for... what? Why am *I* being held accountable for something that ADAM did???!!??

Seriously! That's Messed Up!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I find God had to ' permit ' (allow) man to govern himself..

That's what we call a Dead Beat Dad-- who LITERALLY gives up his RESPONSIBILITY

AND THEN HAS THE GALL TO BLAME THE KIDS WHEN HE HAS ABDICATED!

Wow! That is so messed up it's laughable!

 

[Trailblazer]

The above sentence is internally contradictory... if there is no scientific "proof" (a gross mischaracterization of what science is, actually) then there is no evidence.

Basically, if you cannot measure something in some way? It's not evidence, it's just messing around....

You have your definition of evidence, I have mine. Evidence is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Evidence is anything that indicates that something might be true, it does not have to be measurable. For example, personal testimonies are evidence so NDEs are evidence that there is a spiritual world. They are not proof, but they are evidence.

Proof is different from evidence. Proof is evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement. We cannot establish that a spiritual world exists so we cannot prove it exists.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You have your definition of evidence, I have mine. Evidence is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Evidence is anything that indicates that something might be true, it does not have to be measurable. For example, personal testimonies are evidence so NDEs are evidence that there is a spiritual world. They are not proof, but they are evidence.. .

No-- that's not actual evidence. What that IS? Is a collection of personal stories.

It could simply be--- since everyone questioned is human -- is that they all possess human brains.

And that human brains operate pretty much the same way, when deprived of sufficient oxygen...

It's not "evidence of spiritual world" at all! Your sample is too narrow, just for starters!

You have failed to prove that non-spiritual phenomena is causing this -- (I gave one possible non-spirit explanation. There are others...)

What really destroys to 100%, the NDE myth? Is that without exception, people from the USA, who experience NDEs-- if they are religious? They "experience" USA-brand of Christianity.

Whereas people from India, typically experience Hindu "NDEs", or perhaps Islam (if they are Muslims).

In short? These "Near Death Experiences" always and ever reflect the culture of the person who is having the Dream....

Finally? We do know that human brains Dream-- a lot. And that the Dreams can seem, under some circumstances, to be quite real.

Proof is different from evidence. Proof is evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement. We cannot establish that a spiritual world exists so we cannot prove it exists.

No-- you don't get to re-define the word "evidence" just as soon as your statements are shown to be lacking.

That's a Logical Fallacy, known as Moving The Goal Posts.

We cannot establish that a spiritual world exists so we cannot prove it exists.

Indeed... you don't even have any .... actual evidence.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Did he actually stay dead? So there was no actual dying here... was there.
Ooops ! Everyone is still guilty of sin...
But -- there was no sacrifice! Didn't stay dead! People were not, in fact, "ransomed" (I'm assuming that's what you meant, not "random" )
Well, sure! If you believe in a book that was, by all accounts, not supposed to be IN the bible! Ooops!
Repent for... what? Why am *I* being held accountable for something that ADAM did???!!??
Seriously! That's Messed Up!

Since his God resurrected the dead Jesus, then yes there was dying. Jesus died. ( executed)
Since God transferred the heavenly life of the sinless heavenly Jesus to Earth then Jesus was without sin.
So, Jesus was Not guilty of sin, and remained sinless to his faithful death.
When a person is kidnapped often a 'ransom price' is required for that one's release.
Besides Revelation, I find gospel writer John wrote the gospel according to John at John 5:28-29.
You are Not held accountable for something Adam did, you are held accountable for your own actions.
Adam proved un-faithful under good conditions. Whereas, both Job and Jesus proved faithful under very adverse conditions showing that we too can answer Satan's challenge at Job 2:4-5 that ' touch our flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
As you mentioned everyone is guilty of sin. That is everyone except Jesus. So, we are responsible for our own sins.
In Scripture there are two (2) types of sin: Sin is either on purpose or not, premeditated or not, willfull or not.
Because we can Not stop sinning is why we die. If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
That is why we need someone who can free us from: enemy death.
Without Jesus paying the ransom price for us we would stay dead without a resurrection hope - Matthew 20:28.
Thus, we have a wonderful future (Jeremiah 29:11), a wonderful future as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That's what we call a Dead Beat Dad-- who LITERALLY gives up his RESPONSIBILITY
AND THEN HAS THE GALL TO BLAME THE KIDS WHEN HE HAS ABDICATED!
Wow! That is so messed up it's laughable!

I don't know of a dad who seriously makes a rule, a law, and deliberately chooses Not intending to keep it.
Father God (Dad) gave the ' Law of the Land ' (Eden) that the forbidden fruit tree carried the death penalty.
That ' Law' was cut and dry. You eat, You die. God is Not a Law breaker. God did Not break His Law.

Adam knew the Law. Genesis 2:17 teaches us that Adam knew the Law of the Land.
So, Adam had two (2) choices to obey the Law or be a criminal and break the Law.
Since Adam was created upright then Adam could only become a criminal on purpose and Not by accident.
I wonder in which country or land you feel you can deliberately break the law and have No consequences ________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That's true, God exists in the heavenly realm, or the spiritual realm as I call it...
So what do you believe that it means to say God is omnipresent?

Even if a person says God is omnipresent that does Not mean that is what we learn from the Scriptures.
God has a specific location or specific home as per Scripture at 1 Kings 8:39,49, etc.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Since his God resurrected the dead Jesus, then yes there was dying. Jesus died. ( executed)

Sure-- so what? Did he stay dead? No? Ooops! No actual sacrifice!

At most, Jesus was mildly inconvenienced for a weekend.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I don't know of a dad who seriously makes a rule, a law, and deliberately chooses Not intending to keep it.
Father God (Dad) gave the ' Law of the Land ' (Eden) that the forbidden fruit tree carried the death penalty.
That ' Law' was cut and dry. You eat, You die. God is Not a Law breaker. God did Not break His Law.

Adam knew the Law. Genesis 2:17 teaches us that Adam knew the Law of the Land.
So, Adam had two (2) choices to obey the Law or be a criminal and break the Law.
Since Adam was created upright then Adam could only become a criminal on purpose and Not by accident.
I wonder in which country or land you feel you can deliberately break the law and have No consequences ________

Whatever. It does not excuse the FACT that the god you described? DEAD BEAT DAD.

Unworthy of the title "good"

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Since his God resurrected the dead Jesus, then yes there was dying. Jesus died. ( executed)
Since God transferred the heavenly life of the sinless heavenly Jesus to Earth then Jesus was without sin.
So, Jesus was Not guilty of sin, and remained sinless to his faithful death.
When a person is kidnapped often a 'ransom price' is required for that one's release.
Besides Revelation, I find gospel writer John wrote the gospel according to John at John 5:28-29.
You are Not held accountable for something Adam did, you are held accountable for your own actions.
Adam proved un-faithful under good conditions. Whereas, both Job and Jesus proved faithful under very adverse conditions showing that we too can answer Satan's challenge at Job 2:4-5 that ' touch our flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
As you mentioned everyone is guilty of sin. That is everyone except Jesus. So, we are responsible for our own sins.
In Scripture there are two (2) types of sin: Sin is either on purpose or not, premeditated or not, willfull or not.
Because we can Not stop sinning is why we die. If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
That is why we need someone who can free us from: enemy death.
Without Jesus paying the ransom price for us we would stay dead without a resurrection hope - Matthew 20:28.
Thus, we have a wonderful future (Jeremiah 29:11), a wonderful future as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

NONE of the above explains: WHY AM I TO BE PUNISHED FOR SOMETHING ADAM DID?

Seriously-- I'd love to see an answer.

 

[allfoak]

Why does God act as if he is non existent?

That's like asking why we can't see the stars during the day only in an opposite manner.
We can't see the stars because of the light in the way. We can't see God because the darkness is in the way.
Perhaps it is like asking why a child in the womb can't see their parents.

 

[Trailblazer]

“You have your definition of evidence, I have mine. Evidence is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Evidence is anything that indicates that something might be true, it does not have to be measurable. For example, personal testimonies are evidence so NDEs are evidence that there is a spiritual world. They are not proof, but they are evidence.”

No-- that's not actual evidence. What that IS? Is a collection of personal stories.

It could simply be--- since everyone questioned is human -- is that they all possess human brains.

And that human brains operate pretty much the same way, when deprived of sufficient oxygen...

It's not "evidence of spiritual world" at all! Your sample is too narrow, just for starters!

You have failed to prove that non-spiritual phenomena is causing this -- (I gave one possible non-spirit explanation. There are others...)

What really destroys to 100%, the NDE myth? Is that without exception, people from the USA, who experience NDEs-- if they are religious? They "experience" USA-brand of Christianity.

Whereas people from India, typically experience Hindu "NDEs", or perhaps Islam (if they are Muslims).

In short? These "Near Death Experiences" always and ever reflect the culture of the person who is having the Dream....

It makes sense that the NDEs will reflect the beliefs of those who have the experiences; so a Christian would see Jesus and a Muslim would see Muhammad, etc. because those are the Prophets that they believed in and they thus gravitated towards them. I believe that we will all see the Prophets we believed in when we go to the spiritual world, I will see Baha’u’llah because He is the one I am closest to.

Believers will forever disagree with nonbelievers over what causes an NDE and I do not want to get into that. Suffice to say that there are some things that eperiencers report that there is no scientific explanation for.

I do not believe that NDEs are unequivocal proof that there is an afterlife... For one thing, those people were not completely dead long enough to cross over to the spiritual world so we cannot know what would have happened if they had remained dead. The only way to know that is to have a medium who contacts the other side, although nobody can prove they actually contacted the other side.

I would not be prone to believe in any of this if I did not already belay what Baha’u’llah wrote about the soul and the spiritual world which is somewhat corroborated by the NDE experiences and the spirit communicators communications from the spirit realm.

Finally? We do know that human brains Dream-- a lot. And that the Dreams can seem, under some circumstances, to be quite real.

That is a good point. What reason is there to think that what is happening in that dream is any less real than what we experience in a waking state? Baha’u’llah explains how the phenomenon of dreams is proof that there are other realms of consciousness – “that thy spirit, having transcended the limitations of sleep and having stripped itself of all earthly attachment, hath, by the act of God, been made to traverse a realm which lieth hidden in the innermost reality of this world.”

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Consider thy state when asleep. Verily, I say, this phenomenon is the most mysterious of the signs of God amongst men, were they to ponder it in their hearts. Behold how the thing which thou hast seen in thy dream is, after a considerable lapse of time, fully realized. Had the world in which thou didst find thyself in thy dream been identical with the world in which thou livest, it would have been necessary for the event occurring in that dream to have transpired in this world at the very moment of its occurrence. Were it so, you yourself would have borne witness unto it. This being not the case, however, it must necessarily follow that the world in which thou livest is different and apart from that which thou hast experienced in thy dream. This latter world hath neither beginning nor end. It would be true if thou wert to contend that this same world is, as decreed by the All-Glorious and Almighty God, within thy proper self and is wrapped up within thee. It would equally be true to maintain that thy spirit, having transcended the limitations of sleep and having stripped itself of all earthly attachment, hath, by the act of God, been made to traverse a realm which lieth hidden in the innermost reality of this world. Verily I say, the creation of God embraceth worlds besides this world, and creatures apart from these creatures. In each of these worlds He hath ordained things which none can search except Himself, the All-Searching, the All-Wise. Do thou meditate on that which We have revealed unto thee, that thou mayest discover the purpose of God, thy Lord, and the Lord of all worlds. In these words the mysteries of Divine Wisdom have been treasured. We have refrained from dwelling upon this theme owing to the sorrow that hath encompassed Us from the actions of them that have been created through Our words, if ye be of them that will hearken unto Our Voice.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 151-153

“Proof is different from evidence. Proof is evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement. We cannot establish that a spiritual world exists so we cannot prove it exists.”
No-- you don't get to re-define the word "evidence" just as soon as your statements are shown to be lacking.

That's a Logical Fallacy, known as Moving The Goal Posts.

No, by definition, proof is different from evidence:

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid:
Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement:

So, a broken window is evidence that indicates that a burglary has taken place, but there is no proof until it has been established as a fact by missing valuables, forensic evidence or a confession by the burglar.

“We cannot establish that a spiritual world exists so we cannot prove it exists.”
Indeed... you don't even have any .... actual evidence.

Some evidence that indicates that a spiritual world exists is what the Baha’i Faith says about the spiritual world, NDEs, and the communication that mediums get back when they contract spirits on the other side.

However, this is not proof because it cannot be established as a fact.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Oh, I was one of the most Jesus People on the Planet, back in the day --- sure, I thought Jesus and I were Besties. At the time, I was sure of it.

Then I grew the heck up, and recognized all the times I thought I was talking to "Jesus", I was only talking to the mirror the whole time.

There is a very good reason why you don't hear "Jesus" in what I wrote -- is because Jesus was a total and complete failure to be there when needed most.

Abandonment is an Unforgivable Crime in my book.

I can overlook the weaknesses of mere humans. But. I can NEVER-EVER forgive weakness in a GOD.

Again, respectfully, sincerely, but I can only go by what little you tell me, you are saying 100% of your Jesus conversations were one-sided, yet I constantly receive responses. I'm trying to parse this stuff with you, respectfully.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Again, respectfully, sincerely, but I can only go by what little you tell me, you are saying 100% of your Jesus conversations were one-sided, yet I constantly receive responses. I'm trying to parse this stuff with you, respectfully.

No, in hindsight, they were all one-sided. I now understand the power of the human brain to create self-delusional states.

What made me continue to lose my faith, was all external-- it was never internal dialog.

For starters? The bible itself was part of the process-- I came to realize that I absolutely could not respect that book as a cause for anything good. There was simply too much evil in it's pages.

The worst evil of them all? The whole "you must be redeemed" shtick: this is basically teaching people that they are worthless, worth less than pond scum, and somehow deserving of infinite punishment.

"But-but-but-- there is no hell" Well? If that's the case? Why go thorough that horrific narrative of a brutal murder as some sort of "ultimate sacrifice" in the fist place? Why even permit such a horrible story to become central to the christian biblical theme?

Either way it's sliced, the bible's central theme is horrible, and paints a portrait of a being who's so narcissistic and victim-blaming, that it cannot simply forgive people for being... **exactly** as they were created to be!

The very fact that this ugly book-- this "bible" even exists at all, tells me without doubt, that there cannot possibly be a good god who cares about the fate of humans, and is in a position to do anything about it.