Why does it matter if Christianity is a sun worshiping religion?

[1robin]

I was a Christian for a long time, and this perhaps might be the first time that I've ever heard anyone insisting that Christians worship the sun. lol

Yes I agree. I was raised in church (but at the time I considered it merely a social gathering), at 17 my mom dyed and so I quit going and believed either God did not exist or if he did I hated him. However I had a minister's daughter as a girlfriend and so kept in tough with Christians. I have been a Christian for 18years know. I must have known ten thousand Christian's and have combed through Christian doctrines from every side and every time period. I have never of a single instance of a Christian truly worshiping the Sun. That does not mean there never have been any (we have our own nuts as well) but it does suggest the number who do so are infetesinmally small.

 

[outhouse]

Its an example of where the teachings came from, no matter if you agree or not.

Your wrong, you need to substantiate your claims. It has nothing to do with Greek mythology, and every bit to do with mythology in Judaism.

 

[1137]

Was this addressed to me. I do not see responses unless you quote or tag me in your post. If you do not understand how to do that, I am happy to explain. However I do not want to answer a post until I am sure it was aimed at me.

The post was general, throwing out numerous examples of sun worship in Christianity. I shouldn't sink to your level but I'm bored these days, so is that too complicated?

 

[outhouse]

. I shouldn't sink to your level

Are you anyone here to question others faith, after posting so much unsubstantiated pseudo history with no support what so ever?

The post was general, throwing out numerous examples of sun worship in Christianity

No you were not.

You made a bunch of claims you cannot support.

 

[1robin]

I don't react emotionally to most topics. There are a couple of exceptions but mostly I simply debate here for the fun of it.

Mothers are usually on our lists of emotionally charged attitudes. Anyway I was just playing the odds, not accusing you of anything.

1. My mother is one of the most devout Christians I have ever known. She would tell me I am being stupid about thinking she worships the sun, much like you think. That does not, however, negate the obvious parallels between Christianity and Paganism that exist.

I will not deny your mother is a very good example of Christian behavior. She may very well be light years in front of me in her obedience to God. However if she worships the Sun, that particular act is unchristian and a sin. There are no sinless Christians. The bible says that if any man claim to be without sin, they are liars and the truth is not in them. I may very well sin more than you mother but how relatively good your mother is, is not the issue. I would not even suggest you tell her to stop or show her scriptures that forbid idol or object worship. I simply saying it is wrong, and that it is a very seldom practiced by any Christians. I doubt your mother worships the sun anyway. Worship, is based on the words worth ship. It is to acknowledge the worthiness of a thing (usually a divine being). The Sun deserves no credit for anything. It is harmful to just about everything, even things it is also a benefit to. It does not care about you, it is not "blessing" you with light (it is simply burning.

As for parallels between faiths. Since faiths generally answered the same questions, have actually copied other faiths intentionally or at least borrowed from them, and they deal with the same issues of course they would have similarities. That is realty irrelevant. To form an argument you would have to show the more evidence exists that the story of Christ was fabricated out of other myths. I have seen TWO professional PhDs do this exact same thing. The atheist was so embarrassed by the theist I actually felt sorry for him. If you want to see it and will have an open mind I will dig up the link to the video.

2. Easter is based on Beltane. You can believe it to not be so but that doesn't change the clear parallels between the iconography and symbolism that exists between the two. Do you know anything about Beltane? It is a holiday that celebrates rebirth. IE: The resurrection of the sun/Son. It is about renewal of life, much like Christ offers you through his crucifixion.

No Easter is based on Christ's death and resurrection. Your confusing the fact that the 3rd-6th century Catholics who had massive populations of both Pagans and Christians did to try and make the Christian celebration more palatable to pagans. They thought if we tweak what we do and say then the Pagans will not be offended and may even eventually come over to our side. I condemn them for it. In fact many fundamental Churches have gone back to the calibrations original roots (The Sader meal, the Passover calibration, and have made more rigourus the conditions by which we are to take of the Eucharist and baptism.) Of course the populous churches interested in filling seats still put up Christmas trees. Trying to water down 1st and 2nd century practices so that secular folks won't by driven away and will feel that "hey Christianity not that much different that out secular practices" and stay and keep filling the collection bowls. Christianity was born in a time in Jerusalem would not even tolerate slight changes in doctrine made by faithful Jews. If you wanted to invent something that be the last thing The Jews or Romans would buy into IN THAT TIME it would have been Christianity.

3. I understand that for you, this is the antithesis of what you're taught by your faith and the Bible but that doesn't change the fact that many theologian scholars agree that the faith you practice was built on the shoulders of older ones. You can deny that. I have no issue with it but to blatantly deny it without considering that there just MIGHT be a kernel of truth seems very closed minded to me.

Yes my understanding and experience of the bible does color my views but I could put all that aside and study these claims from a strictly academic view and they utterly fail as that video I mentioned shows. This is an old argument referred to as parallelism and you can find maybe thousands of published work that dismantle every single piece of it. To save time just check on Google Video or Utube for any professional debate about it and you probably will no longer believe what you do. It is a theory that when studied with intensity falls apart so easily it is on par with the alien astronaut theories you see on the History channel.

Good to hear from you again JOstories.

 

[psychoslice]

Your wrong, you need to substantiate your claims. It has nothing to do with Greek mythology, and every bit to do with mythology in Judaism.

Well of course their mythology had, or the idea of theirs had to start from somewhere, it probably came from the Egyptians, you should expand your thinking more, you might learn more.

 

[outhouse]

probably came from the Egyptians,.

substantiate your claims.

 

[psychoslice]

substantiate your claims.

Is-ra-el

 

[outhouse]

Is-ra-el

The Egyptian spelling IS NOT what you posted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

I.si.ri.ar

ysrỉꜣr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_(name)

"The scientific etymology of Israel is uncertain, a good guess being '[The God] El rules.'"

EL was the original father god in these proto Israelites which had CANAANITE heritage, not Egyptian who had just destroyed them as they were first forming.


But if we want to use garbage pseudo history, they want us to think these displaced Canaanite's who were just wiped out by Egyptians MAGICALLY started worshipping a Egyptian sun deity. And dropped El a deity in use for thousands of years.


When El had been a long time father deity in these cultures.


PLEASE pick up a real history book, or take a class and stop the pseudo history.

 

[outhouse]

Is-ra-el

Substantiates NOTHING in Christianity.

 

[JoStories]

I will not deny your mother is a very good example of Christian behavior. She may very well be light years in front of me in her obedience to God. However if she worships the Sun, that particular act is unchristian and a sin. There are no sinless Christians. The bible says that if any man claim to be without sin, they are liars and the truth is not in them. I may very well sin more than you mother but how relatively good your mother is, is not the issue. I would not even suggest you tell her to stop or show her scriptures that forbid idol or object worship. I simply saying it is wrong, and that it is a very seldom practiced by any Christians. I doubt your mother worships the sun anyway. Worship, is based on the words worth ship. It is to acknowledge the worthiness of a thing (usually a divine being). The Sun deserves no credit for anything. It is harmful to just about everything, even things it is also a benefit to. It does not care about you, it is not "blessing" you with light (it is simply burning.

As for parallels between faiths. Since faiths generally answered the same questions, have actually copied other faiths intentionally or at least borrowed from them, and they deal with the same issues of course they would have similarities. That is realty irrelevant. To form an argument you would have to show the more evidence exists that the story of Christ was fabricated out of other myths. I have seen TWO professional PhDs do this exact same thing. The atheist was so embarrassed by the theist I actually felt sorry for him. If you want to see it and will have an open mind I will dig up the link to the video.

Regarding the story of Christ, can you say without hesitation that the story could not have been built on the backs of such stories as Osiris and Horus? The similarities are pretty obvious. No one, and that would include me, is saying or trying to diminish your faith. What I am saying is that all faiths were built on the bones of older ones. They did not come into being out of thin smoke. You say here that faith have either intentionally or not copied from others. Would that also not include your own? How do you justify that there is absolutely no evidence of a world flood or the fact that the Epic of Gilgamesh contains the exact same story? Are you familiar with Mithras? I refer you to this inscription that comes from Mithras:

"He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation."

That is almost verbatim to John 6, 53-54, non?

 

[Lisaloves007]

The connections between sun worship, other sun deities, and Christianity are more than apparent to any who look for them. My concern is why this should matter in any way, shape, or form. It's not like Christianity blatantly worships the sun like other religions have / do, in fact using the sun and stars as the basis for a religion who believes in an intelligent and interactive god makes perfect sense (in context). Why can't the three stages of the sun be the foundation of the Trinity? Is the sun manipulable by god? Why does it matter if the there wise men are the stars of Orion's belt? Perhaps God simply wanted to help physically illustrate spiritual truths.

My question is actually mainly direct by Christians who fight to the death against such views of Christianity. Why does it matter?

Try again. I see you're trying to perverse Christianity. Christianity does not worship the sun, pagans do. Christianity is about our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Before you "try to convince" others your false ideology, make sure you learn about the religion before you bash it. You're only allowing yourself known to the forum for how uneducated you are.

 

[psychoslice]

The Egyptian spelling IS NOT what you posted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

I.si.ri.ar

ysrỉꜣr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_(name)

"The scientific etymology of Israel is uncertain, a good guess being '[The God] El rules.'"

EL was the original father god in these proto Israelites which had CANAANITE heritage, not Egyptian who had just destroyed them as they were first forming.


But if we want to use garbage pseudo history, they want us to think these displaced Canaanite's who were just wiped out by Egyptians MAGICALLY started worshipping a Egyptian sun deity. And dropped El a deity in use for thousands of years.


When El had been a long time father deity in these cultures.


PLEASE pick up a real history book, or take a class and stop the pseudo history.

Substantiates NOTHING in Christianity.

Well I personally think what you say is totally garbage, you wouldn't have a clue what is right or wrong, so please don't use your ignorance to try and disable me, I don't even want to argue with someone like you, that's impossible to do, for you have made up your mind what is true to you, that's not intelligence at all, I have simply shown what I feel, and that is all, but you have shown ****all, so please keep you stupid ideas to yourself, thank you.

 

[JoStories]

No Easter is based on Christ's death and resurrection. Your confusing the fact that the 3rd-6th century Catholics who had massive populations of both Pagans and Christians did to try and make the Christian celebration more palatable to pagans. They thought if we tweak what we do and say then the Pagans will not be offended and may even eventually come over to our side. I condemn them for it. In fact many fundamental Churches have gone back to the calibrations original roots (The Sader meal, the Passover calibration, and have made more rigourus the conditions by which we are to take of the Eucharist and baptism.) Of course the populous churches interested in filling seats still put up Christmas trees. Trying to water down 1st and 2nd century practices so that secular folks won't by driven away and will feel that "hey Christianity not that much different that out secular practices" and stay and keep filling the collection bowls. Christianity was born in a time in Jerusalem would not even tolerate slight changes in doctrine made by faithful Jews. If you wanted to invent something that be the last thing The Jews or Romans would buy into IN THAT TIME it would have been Christianity.

Here again Robin, I refer you to Mithras. This character is from Persia, or what is now Iran. Zoroasterianism is the faith that much of your faith is taken from. The parallels are quite clear. And in fact, Celsus, writing at roughly the same times as the gospels were written stated that:
"complained that this recent religion [of Christianity} was only a pale reflection" of Pagan belief. 3 According to theCatholic Encyclopedia, Celsus pointed out that Christianity copied the concepts of others. (Freke & Gandy).
The dates of the resurrection and the birth of Christ are debated and are placed specifically on Pagan dates, the first being Beltane, and the latter being Yule.

 

[JoStories]

es my understanding and experience of the bible does color my views but I could put all that aside and study these claims from a strictly academic view and they utterly fail as that video I mentioned shows. This is an old argument referred to as parallelism and you can find maybe thousands of published work that dismantle every single piece of it. To save time just check on Google Video or Utube for any professional debate about it and you probably will no longer believe what you do. It is a theory that when studied with intensity falls apart so easily it is on par with the alien astronaut theories you see on the History channel.

Good to hear from you again JOstories.

Sorry Robin but my views will not change based on Christian apologist sites or you tube videos. The parallels have not been dismantled as you state and if you read or listen to any lectures from Erhman, you will see that not everyone agrees with you. And in fact, many do not. I have watched these debates and each and every time they are between an atheist and an apologist. What of those who do believe in God albeit not your view of God? And it was good to hear from you too Robin.

 

[JoStories]

Try again. I see you're trying to perverse Christianity. Christianity does not worship the sun, pagans do. Christianity is about our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Before you "try to convince" others your false ideology, make sure you learn about the religion before you bash it. You're only allowing yourself known to the forum for how uneducated you are.

That seems a bit harsh. I have studied your faith for decades and see many parallels between several older faiths and your own. You are free to believe your's is unique but there are many who would strongly disagree with you. You spend all this post insulting another poster. And I see it was your first post. How about listening for a time?

 

[outhouse]

You are free to believe your's is unique but there are many who would strongly disagree with you.

She would be correct that OP is trying to pervert the religion.

There is no sun worship that serves as the foundation of the religion 5he way OP claims. That is pure fantasy based on pseudo history. AchyraS promotes this and she has been laughed at for years on all academic circles. I have debated here, and she runs.

 

[1robin]

Mainstream Christianity are those denominations that are the most prevalent. IE: Baptist, Lutheran, etc. Lesser known sects or cults are not considered mainstream. IOW, your faith is based on either the RCC or Martin Luther and the various Bibles associated with that faith. For example, WBC or Jim Jones or Mormonism would not be considered particularly mainstream.

What you said is true, but I do not think it addresses my question. In the movie Fury. One guy asked some raw recruit was he saved (meaning born again), the recruit sheepishly answered that well I go to church. One guy in the back ground laughed and said that is not what he asked you. And the original guy gave a smile and said "your a mainliner aren't you". So the juxtaposition was between someone born again against whatever a mainliner in. I belong to a Baptist church and have attended Lutheran churches as well and both believe in being born again. I don't know why but I got the impression he was referring to one of England's institutionalized denominations which are based or ceremony and ritual and do not push spiritual salvation. However I was not sure and so I asked someone in one of those denominations what mainliner meant. Keep in mind it was a because he answered "well I go to church" when asked about a spiritual event.

 

[Katzpur]

For example, WBC or Jim Jones or Mormonism would not be considered particularly mainstream.

Wow, that's got to be just about the most unflattering combination anyone has come up with yet. Are you sure you couldn't come up with something a little nicer but still accurate?

 

[JoStories]

Wow, that's got to be just about the most unflattering combination anyone has come up with yet. Are you sure you couldn't come up with something a little nicer but still accurate?

My apologies. What would you have made note of? Or are you saying that those are legitimate denominations? Other than Mormonism, of course.