Why does it matter if Christianity is a sun worshiping religion?

[jeager106]

That's funny because they adopted many pagan aspects in dogma over the years. Christians were first called atheist because their beliefs were not viewed as normal.

Judaism is founded on pagan beliefs.





If you did not know, Christians around the world worship MANY different thing sin the religion. Some saints, some crosses, many worship Mary.

The Vatican did a pole and Jesus ranked 6th for who people prayed and worshipped thing sin the religion.

South America people worship Mary as much if not more the Jesus IMHO.





No. That's not accurate.

Quite right as usual about all you replied to.
What IS accurate re: the last quoted line above as I HATE
being wrong about what I perceive as facts -thanks.

 

[outhouse]

. Jews didn't even use the Hebrew language in the time of Jesus.

They did, just not as primary.

 

[outhouse]

Quite right as usual about all you replied to.
What IS accurate re: the last quoted line above as I HATE
being wrong about what I perceive as facts -thanks.

Not sure what was quoted I missed it bud.

But if it is the RCC, I have to disagree. Your blame should be on Hellenism more so then the RCC. The RCC just stopped the evolution of dogma after setting definitions in stone that stand today.

The evolution happened for the most part prior to the RC involvement. We know things evolved after as well, but you would need to make your case so we can study it.

 

[1robin]

@1robin
That was a wonderful, clear, understandable post.
Christians should avoid any connection with paganism and
"false worship".
Even avoiding ancient pagan images in places of worship.
Ever wonder where the halo originated that we see around the pictures
of Saints and Jesus?
Yup, sun god found it's way into Christian Churches thanks to the
old RCC back in the day & now it's an accepted fixture in Christian
worship.

Agreed but it's the age old condition. Satan does not attack that which he already owns. He attacks those that threaten him. The Church, holidays, and our traditions are a threat to him. A Christmas tree (as pretty as they are), or a bunny rabbit laying eggs are monuments to his success. The bible says he comes as a son of light. Offering and promising appealing things, while all the while subverting and playing down the truly valuable things. I do not condemn anyone, I have been told not to. However I have been told to judge all things and to hold to that which is true. I judge an act not a person.

 

[outhouse]

The Church, holidays, and our traditions are a threat to him. A Christmas tree (as pretty as they are), or a bunny rabbit laying eggs are monuments to his success

Give me a break.

No where does the bible imply that kind of power to the mythology behind that concept

 

[JoStories]

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "legitimate " and, to some extent, to "mainstream." There are very few denominations I don't believe to have any "legitimacy" at all, and I can definitely understand why many people do not consider Mormonism to be "mainstream." But when you lump Mormonism in with the Westboro Baptists and Jim Jones, you do us a tremendous disservice. I can't even think of a self-described "Christian" denomination that is more clearly and proudly a "hate group" than the Westboro Baptists. And Jim Jones? My gosh, the man was a lunatic who poisoned his entire congregation! While Mormonism is markedly different in many ways from both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, it definitely has more in common with them than it does with either of the two groups you lumped us in with. I hope you do realize that.

You are correct Katzpur and again I am sorry for having done that.

 

[JoStories]

There are always similarities in all religions. But were are not talking about the foundation of Christianity like OP suggest.

What your talking about is not up for debate, your correct the Christian movement absorbed many pagan elements as it evolved forward for hundreds of years it did this. But its factually not the core.


Its all in the context here. And this was in no way centered around sun worship of any kind. This was Hellenism perverting Judaism to the point of breaking away from Judaism, surrounding the martyrdom of The Galilean.

This gave gentiles the opportunity to not worship the first "son of god" the emperor, a corrupt politician. They could worship the "son of god", the Galilean who sacrificed his life for the good of the people.

Agreed but you are assuming here that a man was indeed sacrificed which we have only sparse documentation of, and none that I am aware of that specifically named the man Christ.

 

[JoStories]

I have tried many times to explain that Christianity is in act almost the lone and exclusive faith. Every other faith records the deeds man must do to crawl his way back up to God. Christianity alone is God coming down to unite with us. No I would not say anyone who worshipped the sun was less a Christian as I. I don't think it possible for us to know who is the better Christians. The apostles started whining about who would be first among them in heaven.

The Greatest in the Kingdom
46An argument started among them as to which of them might be the greatest. 47But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, 48and said to them, "Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great."…

My point is not about which of us is greatest, not even about which one of us is good. My point is that the pagan practice of worshiping natural objects and events was strictly forbidden in the bible. In all other way you mother may be my moral superior and I believe the mistake of worshiping the Sun is covered by the blood of Christ just as well as the even more horrific sins I have had in my past.

This conversation (to me) centered around two things.

1. Christians worship the sun. They most certainly do not in any significant numbers.
2. If they do is it wrong or right? It is wrong.
New International Version
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

You seemed to introduce a third topic. Are the tiny numbers of Christians who do worship the sun going to hell and are they evil people. I would say no to the first (as long as they have been born again and saved at some point), and I would say no more evil or bad that the rest of the Christian masses. None of us get everything right and many of us get things horribly wrong. That is why Christ had to save us not our own efforts. The bible says "None have met the mark, all have fallen short"

Ok but I would disagree with you on a couple of things here. First, that Pagan roots of Christianity is necessarily forbidden by the Bible. I don't mean idol worship of course but rather the incorporation of nature and rituals that Pagans enjoy that many argue were the basis of some of your faith. Examples abound but just a couple are the birthday of Jesus, Easter, and a few others as well. Second, there's a Unity church right down the street from me who do use sun worship. Unity is a group out of Missouri, IIRC, and while they claim an interfaith approach, they are also very Christian in their ideals.

 

[jeager106]

Give me a break.

No where does the bible imply that kind of power to the mythology behind that concept

I respectfully disagree.
Xmas hasn't a thing to do with the birth of Christ and everything about
the holiday is routed in ancient pagan customs.
Fact is the ancient Jews never celebrated a birthday.
Christ was a Jew so why would he approve of celebrating his
birth with symbols routed in paganism?

Easter is an insult to Christ rising from the dead.
Easter eggs, bunny rabbits are all ancient fertility symbols
having zero do to with Christ rising from the dead.
Ask most any kid what Easter means and they are likely to say
chocolate eggs.
Both "holidays" are a stupendous commercial success.
Most Christians don't have a clue about the pagan routes of those
holidays.
A stunning victory for Satan.

 

[jeager106]

@outhouse

That's funny because they adopted many pagan aspects in dogma over the years. Christians were first called atheist because their beliefs were not viewed as normal.

Yes. Christendom is fully immersed in pagan symbols and most all
"Christians" don't have a clue.
Judaism is founded on pagan beliefs.

Really? Enlighten me please?




If you did not know, Christians around the world worship MANY different thing sin the religion. Some saints, some crosses, many worship Mary.

I see this as fact and a problem.

The Vatican did a pole and Jesus ranked 6th for who people prayed and worshipped thing sin the religion.

South America people worship Mary as much if not more the Jesus IMHO.

I see this as a problem for true Christianity also.




No. That's not accurate.

 

[outhouse]

A stunning victory for Satan.

You over attribute what the concept is and does.

I respectfully disagree.

Then show me where in the NT text, it defines who are what satan is

 

[outhouse]

Next time do not make quotes in my reply please brother, it makes the quote function useless and I cannot reply properly.

Really? Enlighten me please?

El and Yahweh and Asherah and baal were all pagan deities before Israelites even existed.

They existed in Mesopotamian and Canaanite mythology, with Yahweh's origins possibly in Midian

 

[jeager106]

Next time do not make quotes in my reply please brother, it makes the quote function useless and I cannot reply properly.

Really? Enlighten me please?

El and Yahweh and Asherah and baal were all pagan deities before Israelites even existed.

They existed in Mesopotamian and Canaanite mythology, with Yahweh's origins possibly in Midian

Yup, now that you mention is I recall reading that in my Christian
studies endeavors. I believe that was in a book I read long ago
and the title might have been; Did Man Invent God?

Aw, sometimes I still get so confused about this "god" and religion thing.

 

[outhouse]

. I believe that was in a book I read long ago

A really good book that pretty accurate, is by Karen Armstrong.

This vid was based on her work.

 

[outhouse]

The best real scholars on he ethnogenesis of Israel is Israel finkelstein and William Dever.

Avrham Foust is to biased but his work has good points if you throw out all his conclusions.

 

[jeager106]

Fascinating and lots of hitherto unknown information.
Certainly food for thought.

 

[outhouse]

Fascinating and lots of hitherto unknown information.
Certainly food for thought.

Much is not up for debate in any way. Established and backed with credible evidence.


Its like the Canaanite heritage which is not up for debate

 

[jeager106]

Much is not up for debate in any way. Established and backed with credible evidence.


Its like the Canaanite heritage which is not up for debate

Yes, the video seemed to be presenting unbiased historical facts.
Interesting to me.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The connections between sun worship, other sun deities, and Christianity are more than apparent to any who look for them. My concern is why this should matter in any way, shape, or form. It's not like Christianity blatantly worships the sun like other religions have / do, in fact using the sun and stars as the basis for a religion who believes in an intelligent and interactive god makes perfect sense (in context). Why can't the three stages of the sun be the foundation of the Trinity? Is the sun manipulable by god? Why does it matter if the there wise men are the stars of Orion's belt? Perhaps God simply wanted to help physically illustrate spiritual truths.

My question is actually mainly direct by Christians who fight to the death against such views of Christianity. Why does it matter?

I am reading a book called "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold" that says something to that effect. Well, I just started it anyway.

 

[outhouse]

Agreed but you are assuming here that a man was indeed sacrificed which we have only sparse documentation of, and none that I am aware of that specifically named the man Christ.

The mythology developed around the martyrdom after his death. It grew all over the diaspora as people returned home after Passover with these legends.

The temple was corrupt, and he caused some trouble probably fighting this and died on a cross, sticking up for the common man.


It was a perceived sacrifice, and the only reason he ended up so famous IMHO was because this took place in front of half a million people.


Certainty here is only that he died on a cross and was baptized by John. Which amounts to being Johns student.


There were plenty of reasons for an Aramaic Galilean Jew to be upset in the temple with Hellenist perverting gods house, they were extorting money out of peasants as well as oppressing them, The temple was the treasury and this Passover was a money making event of the year that brought in tax dollars as well as tithes taken by force.

The temple coin had a pagan deity Melqart on the face and it was required to use this coin, this would have been enough to upset any pious Aramaic Jew.