Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[1robin]

Isn't that the exact same thing the Christian Church claims to know?

Can you clarify the question. I did not understand it.

 

[Nakosis]

So then that means God is a liar, because he revealed false doctrines such as Greek mythology to be true, when in reality, they actually weren't.

I think what it really means is that religious folks adjust their beliefs to fit with their personal sense of morality.

Eternal punishment was an acceptable moral standard at one time. Now, not so much. So Christian morality, like everyone else's is based on a personal sense of right and wrong.

People take the Bible and work some thinking into it to justify their personal morals so they can claim it comes from God. Catch phrase for justification is "Progressive Revelation".

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

People take the Bible and work some thinking into it to justify their personal morals so they can claim it comes from God.

Yeah. Some people just can't face personal responsibility in determining morality.

So they stamp 'GOD' on their personal moral conclusions.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah. Some people just can't face personal responsibility in determining morality.

So they stamp 'GOD' on their personal moral conclusions.

For me, there seems to be a spiritual reality. I can see how it might have been in ancient times when a tribal leader would have come and said that he had a vision and would tell his people that they had to obey some laws, worship the invisible god and gave him sacrifices. I could see how that invisible being could be defined as all-good. I could see how when disease and disasters happened that they could be told they were being punished for disobeying the all-good invisible god. I could also see how the whole thing could be made up. And, because every people and culture has a similar but different set of beliefs, laws and definitions of their gods, there is a good chance, imo, that a lot of it is made up. Like in the Bible, did God tell Moses those laws, or did early Hebrews make the laws and attributed them to God? Yet, somehow, when I let the "spirit" of love and belief flow through me, I feel good inside. Like it's almost real. What the hell is that all about? Of course then I get "saved" of sorts. I read the Bible and think, "Naw, this can't be true."

Oh, and 1Robin, thanks for answering my questions. I haven't read through your post yet.

 

[1robin]

Isn't that the exact same thing the Christian Church claims to know?

No, But tens of thousands of scholars over 2000 years going all the way back to the men who were taught the meanings of the bible and recorded them are certainly closer to being right that a random informal poster. BTW they collectively do have hundreds of degrees in textual criticism, NT history, Hermeneutics and Exegesis. They are by far the best source and unless your looking to prove a point out of preference you would use them as your primary resource. If you have some personal narrative to sell I imagine you would do everything you could to avoid them.

 

[Nakosis]

For me, there seems to be a spiritual reality. I can see how it might have been in ancient times when a tribal leader would have come and said that he had a vision and would tell his people that they had to obey some laws, worship the invisible god and gave him sacrifices. I could see how that invisible being could be defined as all-good. I could see how when disease and disasters happened that they could be told they were being punished for disobeying the all-good invisible god. I could also see how the whole thing could be made up. And, because every people and culture has a similar but different set of beliefs, laws and definitions of their gods, there is a good chance, imo, that a lot of it is made up. Like in the Bible, did God tell Moses those laws, or did early Hebrews make the laws and attributed them to God? Yet, somehow, when I let the "spirit" of love and belief flow through me, I feel good inside. Like it's almost real. What the hell is that all about? Of course then I get "saved" of sorts. I read the Bible and think, "Naw, this can't be true."

Sometimes we let others create truth for us and what they create becomes our truth to the point we forget other men created that truth for us.

One man creates a truth and others build upon it so it becomes an interwoven quagmire of created truths which becomes near impossible to begin to validate the mess.

Also no guarantee that any of these others had any greater insight or knowledge of truth than yourself.

On top of which we think and reason and come to conclusions which we choose to accept as truth. Meanwhile the brain works on a subconscious level creating truths which percolate into consciousness. People accept these as truth often without questioning the source.

Out of this mess there is no reason to think that the truth accepted by any particular individual has any relationship with actuality. However from these truths comes our morality.

With this morality we judge ideas of God and religious truths.

People tend to confuse the truth that is created with the truth that is. The truth that is, is this moment in time. The totality of you're being in this moment. Your "spirit" of love that is the truth in that moment. Wouldn't it be great if that could always be the truth of this moment in time that is the actuality of our experience?

If you can be here in this moment, in the spirit of love, I don't know that it matters about all these other truths we create to believe in. Christians create their truths, Muslims create theirs. You have your truths and I have mine. None of these "truths" need prevent us coming together in the spirit of love.

I think as a person comes to understand this, there is less need to go about imposing these "truths" we create upon one another.

 

[CG Didymus]

Sometimes we let others create truth for us and what they create becomes our truth to the point we forget other men created that truth for us.

One man creates a truth and others build upon it so it becomes an interwoven quagmire of created truths which becomes near impossible to begin to validate the mess.

Also no guarantee that any of these others had any greater insight or knowledge of truth than yourself.

Most any religion can explain what is going on in our world in a way that makes enough sense that we can come to believe it if we let it. And that's the problem, not to let it. The poor Christians are stuck in the middle of two religious traditions. That's their problem with this thread. The way God is talked about in the Hebrew Scriptures has him doing and ordering some nasty things. In the Christian Bible he wants to save everybody, and he, through his Son, does all the suffering.

The poor Christians accepts both those writings as the Word of God so they have to come up with a good explanation of what was going on. There is no good explanation. Allowing suffering, killing woman and children, sending disasters, it doesn't look like God is in control, but somehow they have to take the blame off of him and put it on us. But all we are is part of the natural world, that world seems to have its own way of doing things. It doesn't seem to have an all-knowing, all-good God is at the helm. Things just happen. Who can explain them?

 

[Nakosis]

Things just happen. Who can explain them?

Yes, but damned if we don't try.

 

[The Bullfrog]

This was brought out many times by Atheists and agnostics, I would like to discuss it with you in a rational and respectful manner. My disclaimer is I am a true 5 point Calvinist and If that is offensive to you,You are free to close the thread now. If I may suggest , we leave out all slander against My God in the process of this discussion, slander being pre-defined as name calling as If he were real and present.Questioning scriptures depiction of God however you interpret is allowed. Example: Is God evil? Fair enough?

Here is my premise,
this is my belief based upon my scriptures.
God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die. Hard for us to fathom, granted, but True nevertheless in Scripture. If we say he did not cause it and only allowed it to happen then God would be reacting to free will of man to accomplish their own destruction, thus putting too much power in men and essentially tying God's hands. God ordained for this latest tragedy for his own purposes, we cannot know them, we are not our creator, so The bible tells us we must accept that their is a divine plan and God is in control completely.

So you have asked, where is the comfort in that? Why do religious peoples comfort families of these tragedies with this premise of a God in control? Well let me ask you Atheists would you attempt to comfort these mothers with your precept that there is no God? No heaven and no hell? That their children are reduced to dust as they came? That the man who murdered them who took his life is also Dust and there is no justice for them either? Both parties cease to exist, one guilty, one innocent, both have the same fate in the end.

Or could it be more comforting that a God in control is with their babies now, that they know no suffering,feel no pain have no more tears and the man that took their life will be punished by a Just and perfect God. Where is the evil in my premise and the lack of evil in yours? I find evil in evildoing going unpunished.I find evil in a life given for no purpose but to die and cease to exist.
What say you?

You contradict yourself. You say, "pre-ordained them to die", and than you say, "free will of man to accomplish their own destruction". Unless of course you do not consider babies part of mankind. You also say that free will remove things out of God's control, but you end with saying, "God is in control completely."

 

[CG Didymus]

You contradict yourself. You say, "pre-ordained them to die", and than you say, "free will of man to accomplish their own destruction". Unless of course you do not consider babies part of mankind. You also say that free will remove things out of God's control, but you end with saying, "God is in control completely."

No, it only seems like a contradiction. God made the world perfect, but allowed an imperfect evil being into his perfect garden with the perfect humans. The perfect humans listened to the devil instead of God, so out of his need for justice, he had to curse them. But he knew that he would thousands of years later send his Son to redeem mankind. So all is well in the end. So where is the contradiction? Wait? Let me see? Perfect world. Perfect humans. Imperfect evil being? Wait, who let him in there? And who created him? Hey, and how could perfect humans make wrong choices? Unless they weren't perfect? Hold on, I'll get back to you. Something don't add up here.

 

[idav]

No, it only seems like a contradiction. God made the world perfect, but allowed an imperfect evil being into his perfect garden with the perfect humans. The perfect humans listened to the devil instead of God, so out of his need for justice, he had to curse them. But he knew that he would thousands of years later send his Son to redeem mankind. So all is well in the end. So where is the contradiction? Wait? Let me see? Perfect world. Perfect humans. Imperfect evil being? Wait, who let him in there? And who created him? Hey, and how could perfect humans make wrong choices? Unless they weren't perfect? Hold on, I'll get back to you. Something don't add up here.

Why is it that god could or would only create one being of light that had the ability to defy the creator. Seems to me all creations would have that ability and the ability to defy isnt imperfection it is power thats granted.

 

[1robin]

To everyone: I have been unable to post for quite a while. I will just pick up again at this point but if there were any posts where I left anyone hanging let me know.

 

[CG Didymus]

To everyone: I have been unable to post for quite a while. I will just pick up again at this point but if there were any posts where I left anyone hanging let me know.

It's good to have you back. Now I wonder where Lady Blue is? But besides that, just the usual things have been happening, if the Hebrew Scriptures are taken literally God isn't very nice. More seemly innocent kids have died, but I'm sure God knows what he's doing.

But I was wondering, do Christians believe that through faith in Jesus they can heal the sick? I know some Pentecostals seem to claim that. If so, then God isn't to blame. He gave the power to his people but they haven't exercised their power and healed the sick. No one should die until they reach the age to where they can choose on their own to accept or reject God, after that, for sure, it's their own darn fault.

 

[1robin]

It's good to have you back. Now I wonder where Lady Blue is? But besides that, just the usual things have been happening, if the Hebrew Scriptures are taken literally God isn't very nice. More seemly innocent kids have died, but I'm sure God knows what he's doing.

Hello CG. I'm back but not on a regular basis yet. It is easy top have sympathy with the man who has a cursory familiarity with the OT thinking God is rather harsh. However with study of purpose, methodology, and what he was working through things start to make much more sense. These things must be allowed as the background context to understand the OT properly.

But I was wondering, do Christians believe that through faith in Jesus they can heal the sick? I know some Pentecostals seem to claim that. If so, then God isn't to blame. He gave the power to his people but they haven't exercised their power and healed the sick. No one should die until they reach the age to where they can choose on their own to accept or reject God, after that, for sure, it's their own darn fault.

The only thing guaranteed by true faith in Christ is our eventual salvation and perfection in heaven. Other things come under the class of gifts or merited empowerment and depend on more things that I can explain well. Some may be given the gift of healing, some of prophecy, some of speaking in tongues. I have none of these but I have been slain by the Holy Spirit before - which means to be so over whelmed by the spirit you lose any will or strength to stand. I laid in the floor for 30 minutes in perfect contentment. I have heard someone speak in tongues but am so skeptical of all miracle claims thought she may have only been speaking Hebrew. To have the power to heal does not mean they can at will heal anyone of anything. It only means that if that if it be God's will he will heal someone through the person with the gift which may also involve the sick man's faiith. However it is not God's desire to make the world Eden. That's why Adam was kicked out. So rebellions price would be obvious. This needs much more explanation but it at least sets the tone. Please re-ask your question in light of what I have began to point out. Selah,

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

This was brought out many times by Atheists and agnostics, I would like to discuss it with you in a rational and respectful manner. My disclaimer is I am a true 5 point Calvinist and If that is offensive to you,You are free to close the thread now. If I may suggest , we leave out all slander against My God in the process of this discussion, slander being pre-defined as name calling as If he were real and present.Questioning scriptures depiction of God however you interpret is allowed. Example: Is God evil? Fair enough?

Here is my premise,
this is my belief based upon my scriptures.
God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die. Hard for us to fathom, granted, but True nevertheless in Scripture. If we say he did not cause it and only allowed it to happen then God would be reacting to free will of man to accomplish their own destruction, thus putting too much power in men and essentially tying God's hands. God ordained for this latest tragedy for his own purposes, we cannot know them, we are not our creator, so The bible tells us we must accept that their is a divine plan and God is in control completely.

So you have asked, where is the comfort in that? Why do religious peoples comfort families of these tragedies with this premise of a God in control? Well let me ask you Atheists would you attempt to comfort these mothers with your precept that there is no God? No heaven and no hell? That their children are reduced to dust as they came? That the man who murdered them who took his life is also Dust and there is no justice for them either? Both parties cease to exist, one guilty, one innocent, both have the same fate in the end.

Or could it be more comforting that a God in control is with their babies now, that they know no suffering,feel no pain have no more tears and the man that took their life will be punished by a Just and perfect God. Where is the evil in my premise and the lack of evil in yours? I find evil in evildoing going unpunished.I find evil in a life given for no purpose but to die and cease to exist.
What say you?

I am sorry, but I can't even get past the title of the post...

"Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil" First of all, children are not immune to death, in general. I mean hell, we are all going to die eventually, with the four main questions surrounding our death is when, where, why, and how. Second, according to Christian theology, no one really "dies"...yeah, the body dies, but your body is not "you", and there are reasons, both biblically and philosophically, to conclude that "you" will continue to exist even after your body dies. Third, are you asking is God evil for allowing children to die, or is God evil for allowing children to die in gruesome manners? Either way, according to Christian theism, we should have faith that no matter what happens, God is in sovereign control of everything, whether good or bad.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Basically the wearetoosmalltounderstandGod'sgreatplan argument. Of the many arguments for why God allows so much evil to happen in the world, this one gets five stars for doing the best job of avoiding the question.

 

[Ingledsva]

Basically the wearetoosmalltounderstandGod'sgreatplan argument. Of the many arguments for why God allows so much evil to happen in the world, this one gets five stars for doing the best job of avoiding the question.

LOL! I was thinking the same thing. :yes:



*

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Basically the wearetoosmalltounderstandGod'sgreatplan argument. Of the many arguments for why God allows so much evil to happen in the world, this one gets five stars for doing the best job of avoiding the question.

Yeah, and the "becauseittakessolongtohappen" also gets five stars when skeptics of evolution (myself) asks the question of "why can't we observe macroevolution?"

 

[adi2d]

Yeah, and the "becauseittakessolongtohappen" also gets five stars when skeptics of evolution (myself) asks the question of "why can't we observe macroevolution?"

Again you are avoiding the question on this thread
If you have a question on evolution there are many threads where people will answer your questions(backed by evidence)

Do you have an answer for the OP?

 

[Lyndale]

"Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?"

I'd ask God why does He allow evil to live, when it's always denying Him?