Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[Ingledsva]

*

The church doctrine - that we are born sinners - is false.


It doesn't say that.



*

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nope, you can't find a single sentence I have made in 10,000 posts where I blamed kids. I don't think a single word you attributed to me reflects anything I have ever said. As I have said a hundred times they act immorally but are not held ultimately accountable. Christ did not say the kids were good. Read the bible your trashing sometime. He said the kingdom belonged to them because of their simple faith and wonder not because of their moral upstanding nature. They are like Christians, forgiven, not innocent. Jewish law (of which Christ is the chief priest) said to stone a seriously disobedient child once approval of the parents and priests was secured. Your living in a fantasy world, in the real one children pull each others hair out, steal food, lie, cheat, and form rival factions. You ever seen "Lord of the flies"? Why do mothers constantly have to discipline these paradigms of virtue?

Save for pulling someone's hair without realizing it, babies can do none of those things.

 

[1robin]

My example regards a one month old infant. The early sinaiticus New Testament DOES tell us to “be as infants, with no wickedness”….”for all infants are glorious in Gods’ sight and stand foremost with him”. I've also shown forum readers that early Christians did not share your interpretation of biblical meaning. They read similar textual witnesses to you, but they did not come away with your theory that babies/infants "sin constantly". Robin1,[/B][/U] Concerning your theory that "babies sin constantly", What sins would a one-month old baby in my question have been committing?

I am not debating your claim directly but only commenting on your almost obsessiveness with earliest. I disagree with many of your earliest claims but have no idea why it matters anyway. In many cases earlier is not best. It certainly does not guarantee truth in any way so why insist on it with every statement? I keep thinking I will show it is not the earliest but then I wonder why bother with doing that.

I do not understand the same texts as me qualification. Did you mean the bible? If so it certainly does not include anything about a child being free from wickedness as is painfully and obviously the truth. I will make you an offer to save time. If you can agree to the obvious fact that children violate moral commands as we all know they do, we will leave it up to God if he technically considers it sin and which specific day a child commits his first immoral act. If not then you must deny reality, and so doing defeat any reason to debate the technicalities. Children with out any question act in ways that are considered evil in and of themselves.

Robin1, Concerning your theory that "babies sin constantly", What sins would a one-month old baby in my question have been committing?

My original claim was general, it concerned pre-adults and did not draw any distinctions about any tiny subgroups. I think I already pointed that out as well as suggesting it can't be known what a one month old is doing because it can't communicate. I'm am sure anyone would agree a 13 year old acts immorally, so exactly what is the cutoff if you go back from that point? Going back at what age does the self centered child go back into the cocoon which separate's the sometimes monster from the angel? Is it not far more consistent and simplistic to consider a child at any age as potentially as mistaken as any other but just not responsible for it before a certain age.

2) Robin1 said : This has almost always been interpreted as a Child's being sinful but standing in a state of grace anyway…

Do you deny that kids from a very early age, kick, scratch, bite, hit, threaten, cheat, and even wish the death of others? If you do not then where does this free from wickedness idea come from? If so then you have no connection to reality and I do not know on what basis resolution sis possible. Long before we get into earliest, best, most authoritative you must get past the obvious fact that children do wrong.

You are simply re-stating your personal theory, which is different than early Christian worldviews concerning infants. Early Christians believed in the sacred texts just as you do, but they did not interpret them the same as your theory does.

No I am stating observable reality which has no exception known to man. Billy Graham, Martin Luther, Paul not any mortal Christian I have ever heard of claimed to be sin free. That is not a belief it is a fact.

 

[1robin]

Science says no such thing. YOU do. Hence my question.

No, it posits a world that does not contain it's own explanation but requires one in accordance with every observation made about anything at any time. It is also a fact that this type of universe is very consistent with God and the fact that you only have problems with science of this kind is evidence for my conclusions.

 

[1robin]

*

The church doctrine - that we are born sinners - is false.

Even if true this is claim number 176 that you could not possible know anyway. The evidence is 100% against you for every mortal who has ever lived.

It doesn't say that.

I think it does but it does not matter whether it does or not children constantly act with the intent to harm. Thank God they are not so capable or we would have baby Armageddon's every other week. There would be armies of babies with Gerber flags forcing everyone to eat pure sugar and burning every vegetable crop in the land. It would be an infantapocolyps.

 

[1robin]

Save for pulling someone's hair without realizing it, babies can do none of those things.

My claims were never restricted to infants. If you start at 13 years old I don't think any sane human would deny the evil they do, if you start back from there where is this magic line where they become sinless angels? and how do you know it? It is ironic that calling someone a big baby is to assert they are being selfish, is it not? You ever seen Lord of the flies or have the liberals banned that from classrooms along with Mark Twain, Uncle Remus, and the bible?

 

[Ingledsva]

Even if true this is claim number 176 that you could not possible know anyway. The evidence is 100% against you for every mortal who has ever lived.


I think it does but it does not matter whether it does or not children constantly act with the intent to harm. Thank God they are not so capable or we would have baby Armageddon's every other week. There would be armies of babies with Gerber flags forcing everyone to eat pure sugar and burning every vegetable crop in the land. It would be an infantapocolyps.

LOL! Where does it say it?



*

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, it posits a world that does not contain it's own explanation but requires one in accordance with every observation made about anything at any time. It is also a fact that this type of universe is very consistent with God and the fact that you only have problems with science of this kind is evidence for my conclusions.

Consistent with which god? I see people from all different religions claiming it's evidence of their god. I see no evidence of any of the gods any of you have asserted must exist. As far as I can tell there's no science of any kind that says any god must exist.

Anyway, how do you get from, the universe had a beginning to ... it was created by the god you personally believe in, along with all the anthropomorphic characteristics you attribute to him/them/it? That's a huge leap.

 

[SkepticThinker]

My claims were never restricted to infants. If you start at 13 years old I don't think any sane human would deny the evil they do, if you start back from there where is this magic line where they become sinless angels? and how do you know it? It is ironic that calling someone a big baby is to assert they are being selfish, is it not? You ever seen Lord of the flies or have the liberals banned that from classrooms along with Mark Twain, Uncle Remus, and the bible?

The conversation was about BABIES and for some reason you started talking about older children and teenagers. Yes, I would say a baby that's a few months old is a sinless angel, especially since they can't do much of anything, never mind form alliances and come up with diabolical schemes to hurt others, as you assert older children do.

Lord of the Flies is a great fictional story about kids in a highly unusual situation. It wasn't about babies.

 

[Clear]

Robin1,


I have asked you this very, very simple question multiple times now, and we do not care about irrelevant “Lord of the Flies” quotes in relation to this question about babies or infants.


You claim that "babies sin constantly". The question is :


WHAT SINS WOULD A ONE MONTH-OLD BABY IN MY QUESTION HAVE BEEN COMMITTING?


I am obviously, NOT the only one who wants you to answer this point.


Clear
σεδρτωακφιω

 

[CG Didymus]

LOL! Where does it say it?*

Wow, I was gone for the weekend and come back to this? Unbelievable. I swear I've heard Christians quote something about we must become as little Children. I guess those Christians were wrong. It's just darn lucky that God has killed off enough of them. Could you imagine what the world would be like if we had more children in it?

 

[adi2d]

Wow, I was gone for the weekend and come back to this? Unbelievable. I swear I've heard Christians quote something about we must become as little Children. I guess those Christians were wrong. It's just darn lucky that God has killed off enough of them. Could you imagine what the world would be like if we had more children in it?

So does that mean abortion clinics are doing Gods work?





I never knew typing could leave a bad taste in my mouth. Excuse me for a few. A Jack and coke is calling my name

 

[Ingledsva]

Wow, I was gone for the weekend and come back to this? Unbelievable. I swear I've heard Christians quote something about we must become as little Children. I guess those Christians were wrong. It's just darn lucky that God has killed off enough of them. Could you imagine what the world would be like if we had more children in it?

Yep, I don't know from where they are coming up with this crap.


Evil sinning babies, geeeesssss!



*

 

[JM2C]

You claim that "babies sin constantly". The question is :
WHAT SINS WOULD A ONE MONTH-OLD BABY IN MY QUESTION HAVE BEEN COMMITTING?
I am obviously, NOT the only one who wants you to answer this point.
Clear
σεδρτωακφιω

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

No one is “INNOCENT”, all are born depraved.

 

[JM2C]

For all those who think they are “INNOCENT”, here is another one.

Ps 51:5 KJV Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Ps 51:5 NLT For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yep, I don't know from where they are coming up with this crap.


Evil sinning babies, geeeesssss!



*

I'm sorry I have to bounce this off of your post, but I don't even want to answer directly to those guys anymore. Sure, we are all depraved. We are all apostates for turning away from their God and their interpretation of the Bible. Thank God.

 

[JM2C]

Sure, we are all depraved.

We, as in all humanity including all Christians before we became Christians were all born depraved.

 

[JM2C]

We are all apostates for turning away from their God and their interpretation of the Bible. Thank God.

How can one apostate if one never knew, as in, peace with God -Read Romans 5:1- in the first place?

Ro 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

When a Christian turns away from the God of the bible, s/he becomes an apostate.

Don’t be shy we are just debating.

learning is for our academic and intellectual advancement

 

[Draupadi]

But I thought Christ's sacrifice washed away their sins? Still they deserve to die for the sins of their very first ancestors? Was I present at the moment Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, when I was a baby?

 

[JM2C]

Still they deserve to die for the sins of their very first ancestors?
Was I present at the moment Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, when I was a baby?

Ro 5:12 KJV Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. -NLT