Why Does Public Tolerate Illegal Cop Behavior?

[Revoltingest]

I've noticed on this forum that when a civilian does something wrong,
eg, commit a crime, insult a cop, behave suspiciously, some posters
(no names) condoned cops over-reacting & violating the victim's civil
rights.
The attitude is that if you do wrong, you deserve any consequences.
It's a license for angry cops to do as they please...& what pleases
them is often brutal assault, even death.

In this video, the interesting thing is in the posts below. A woman
suspected of shoplifting & hiding in bushes has her scalp ripped
away by a K9. Viewers post blame for her, & justify the attack.
As long as the masses tolerate bad cops (& bad dogs) it will continue.

 

[Orbit]

If you've ever wondered about the effects of a steady stream of cop shows on TV since its inception you might have one piece of the answer--the American public is conditioned, like Pavlov's dog, to see things from the cop POV.

 

[Nakosis]

I've noticed on this forum that when a civilian does something wrong,
eg, commit a crime, insult a cop, behave suspiciously, some posters
(no names) condoned cops over-reacting & violating the victim's civil
rights.
The attitude is that if you do wrong, you deserve any consequences.
It's a license for angry cops to do as they please...& what pleases
them is often brutal assault, even death.

In this video, the interesting thing is in the posts below. A woman
suspected of shoplifting & hiding in bushes has her scalp ripped
away by a K9. Viewers blame her, & justify the attack. As long
as the masses tolerate bad cops (& bad dogs) it will continue.

You don't think her shoplifting, running from the police and hiding in the bushes had any effect on the outcome?

 

[Father Heathen]

You already know the answer; the uncritical hero worship of those in uniform is ingrained in our culture, hence the defensive knee-jerk reactions.

 

[The Hammer]

You don't think her shoplifting, running from the police and hiding in the bushes had any effect on the outcome?

Does it justify the reax?

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you've ever wondered about the effects of a steady stream of cop shows on TV since its inception you might have one piece of the answer--the American public is conditioned, like Pavlov's dog, to see things from the cop POV.

It's bloodlust.

Like the Roman coliseum, people are immensely entertained watching others misery unfold in the arena.

Only now it's put to a variety of orchestrated musical scores to enhance the drama and suspense.

 

[SomeRandom]

If you've ever wondered about the effects of a steady stream of cop shows on TV since its inception you might have one piece of the answer--the American public is conditioned, like Pavlov's dog, to see things from the cop POV.

I’ve heard the term “copoganda” more than once. Seems fitting to many crime procedurals.
Though in fairness there are shows that take a more nuanced approach. The Wire was praised for its brutal honesty, just for example.
But I do agree with you

 

[Nakosis]

Does it justify the reax?

The point is not to justify how the police react.
The police should have training/legal codes/policy that justifies their response.

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't think her shoplifting, running from the police and hiding in the bushes had any effect on the outcome?

Of course.
But your post illustrates the problem I'm pointing out,
ie, that when someone behaves in a manner leading
to a wrongful assault, many people focus upon the
victim's misbehavior instead of the cop's misbehavior.
This leads to tacit acceptance of violating civil rights
to any extent if the victim is perceived as deserving.

Even if she is guilty, & you believe she did deserve
this injury, K9s & cops have often dispensed summary
justice on the wrong person by mistake. And we don't
know yet if she was guilty, or just scared of cops.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you've ever wondered about the effects of a steady stream of cop shows on TV since its inception you might have one piece of the answer--the American public is conditioned, like Pavlov's dog, to see things from the cop POV.

And this POV is one of extremely dangerous work,
with raging gun battles daily. In actuality, police work
is #25 on the list of the 25 most dangerous jobs.

 

[Revoltingest]

The point is not to justify how the police react.
The police should have training/legal codes/policy that justifies their response.

We'll see how her suit goes. A court might decide
whether the K9 caused injury was an appropriate
level of response in the Use-Of-Force-Continuum
for hiding in bushes.
Force Continuum for Police | Police Test Prep

In this case, the woman was a shoplifter, but the needlessly
violent arrest resulted in the city paying her $3,000,000.
One cop was convicted of assault. He & the 2 others
involved resigned.
Ex-officer reaches plea deal in violent arrest of 73-year-old woman in Colorado

It's abundantly clear that there are constitutional limits
on what cops are allowed to do, no matter how offended
they are by a civilians actions or speech. We need the
public & cops to all recognize this, & demand better
cops on the job, with full accountability.

 

[Nakosis]

We'll see how her suit goes. A court might decide
whether the K9 caused injury was an appropriate
level of response in the Use-Of-Force-Continuum
for hiding in bushes.
Force Continuum for Police | Police Test Prep

IMO, the idea of a K9 is to put the dog at risk instead of the handler.
Someone hiding in the bushes could be armed, lying in wait, etc.
The risk is high because what is waiting for them is unknown.
Maybe policy should be to shout a warning before releasing the dog.
So policy can be fixed if needed and the police should be accountable to that policy.

However I see this as a separate issue. The first issue is self-preservation.
First "act" of self-preservation is to let the police know you are no threat to them.
I understand this doesn't always work however your chances of surviving unscathed are higher.
I can worry about holding the police accountable for their actions later.

 

[Revoltingest]

IMO, the idea of a K9 is to put the dog at risk instead of the handler.
Someone hiding in the bushes could be armed, lying in wait, etc.
The risk is high because what is waiting for them is unknown.
Maybe policy should be to shout a warning before releasing the dog.
So policy can be fixed if needed and the police should be accountable to that policy.

I dispute that there is high risk from a shoplifter.
We're not talking armed robber or terrorist here.
So having a K9 that immediately inflicts serious
injury on a person of interest (not yet known to
even be the person sought) is severe over-reaction

However I see this as a separate issue. The first issue is self-preservation.
First "act" of self-preservation is to let the police know you are no threat to them.
I understand this doesn't always work however your chances of surviving unscathed are higher.
I can worry about holding the police accountable for their actions later.

This illustrates the problem I addressed in another
thread, ie, that cops are so frightened of civilians
that they're too quick to escalate violence to deadly
levels.

A cop orders a man to get his license. He reaches
for his license, & cop fires several shots at him,
hitting him in the hip.
Cop Asks for Man's License, Shoots Him When He Reaches for It
The cop was later convicted of assault & battery.
Ex-South Carolina Trooper Pleads Guilty After Shooting Unarmed Man

You could blame the victim for not being sufficiently
cautious, & asking for specific permission to get his
license. But the populace is not trained to deal with
trigger happy frightened cops. The cops should be
the ones who are properly trained.

 

[Nakosis]

We'll see how her suit goes. A court might decide
whether the K9 caused injury was an appropriate
level of response in the Use-Of-Force-Continuum
for hiding in bushes.
Force Continuum for Police | Police Test Prep

In this case, the woman was a shoplifter, but the needlessly
violent arrest resulted in the city paying her $3,000,000.
One cop was convicted of assault. He & the 2 others
involved resigned.
Ex-officer reaches plea deal in violent arrest of 73-year-old woman in Colorado

It's abundantly clear that there are constitutional limits
on what cops are allowed to do, no matter how offended
they are by a civilians actions or speech. We need the
public & cops to all recognize this, & demand better
cops on the job, with full accountability.

Not fair to drop in a different case to support your argument.
Look, I'm in terrible shape but I suspect I could handle a 73 yo woman with dementia without dislocating her arm.
This seems like it was on purpose and unnecessary.

 

[Nakosis]

I dispute that there is high risk from a shoplifter.
We're not talking armed robber or terrorist here.
So having a K9 that immediately inflicts serious
injury on a person of interest (not yet known to
even be the person sought) is severe over-reaction

How would the police know she was only an unarmed shoplifter?

This illustrates the problem I addressed in another
thread, ie, that cops are so frightened of civilians
that they're too quick to escalate violence to deadly
levels.

A cop orders a man to get his license. He reaches
for his license, & cop fires several shots at him,
hitting him in the hip.
Cop Asks for Man's License, Shoots Him When He Reaches for It
The cop was later convicted of assault & battery.
Ex-South Carolina Trooper Pleads Guilty After Shooting Unarmed Man

You could blame the victim for not being sufficiently
cautious, & asking for specific permission to get his
license. But the populace is not trained to deal with
trigger happy frightened cops. The cops should be
the ones who are properly trained.

I put myself in the position of a civilian dealing with the police how best for me to act, my kids to act, anyone that would listen. For their own sake. My son was permanently maimed by a K9. I wish I had told him this prior.

Unfortunately no video. His word against theirs.
You have no idea who you are dealing with police, trained, not trained, civil or ********.
Train them all you want, hold them all accountable, still no guarantee. This person can cause you harm.
Better to assume the worst and rely on your own actions to survive.
Hold the police accountable in circumstances to your advantage.

 

[Audie]

I've noticed on this forum that when a civilian does something wrong,
eg, commit a crime, insult a cop, behave suspiciously, some posters
(no names) condoned cops over-reacting & violating the victim's civil
rights.
The attitude is that if you do wrong, you deserve any consequences.
It's a license for angry cops to do as they please...& what pleases
them is often brutal assault, even death.

In this video, the interesting thing is in the posts below. A woman
suspected of shoplifting & hiding in bushes has her scalp ripped
away by a K9. Viewers blame her, & justify the attack. As long
as the masses tolerate bad cops (& bad dogs) it will continue.

Mostly i cheer for the dogs to bite them more.

Maybe others feel the same

 

[Audie]

How would the police know she was only an unarmed shoplifter?



I put myself in the position of a civilian dealing with the police how best for me to act, my kids to act, anyone that would listen. For their own sake. My son was permanently maimed by a K9. I wish I had told him this prior.

Unfortunately no video. His word against theirs.
You have no idea who you are dealing with police, trained, not trained, civil or ********.
Train them all you want, hold them all accountable, still no guarantee. This person can cause you harm.
Better to assume the worst and rely on your own actions to survive.
Hold the police accountable in circumstances to your advantage.

Very sorry about your son.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not fair to drop in a different case to support your argument.

There are so very many.
The volume is what makes the problem severe.

Look, I'm in terrible shape but I suspect I could handle a 73 yo woman with dementia without dislocating her arm.
This seems like it was on purpose and unnecessary.

That was the general consensus of
the more responsible adults involved.
But it seems we've some detente regarding
limiting force to an appropriate level.

 

[Revoltingest]

How would the police know she was only an unarmed shoplifter?

Because shoplifters are typically far less violent than
armed robbers.
We shouldn't give cops license to treat the risk of every
encounter as the worst possible. Any cop with that view
is unsuited for the job. After all, they're supposed to be
serving the public....not believing they're at war with us.

I put myself in the position of a civilian dealing with the police how best for me to act, my kids to act, anyone that would listen. For their own sake. My son was permanently maimed by a K9. I wish I had told him this prior.

Unfortunately no video. His word against theirs.
You have no idea who you are dealing with police, trained, not trained, civil or ********.

I agree that every encounter with a cop is possibly
with a bad one. We should be very careful. But
civilians are diverse, & not all know this, or are
even capable of handling cops deftly.

Train them all you want, hold them all accountable, still no guarantee. This person can cause you harm.
Better to assume the worst and rely on your own actions to survive.
Hold the police accountable in circumstances to your advantage.

I don't expect perfection...it's the enemy of good.
But I do demand improvement. And we're seeing
some because of the ubiquity of cameras & youtube.

I recently saw a video (can't find right now) of a cop
who didn't know he was being recorded say that
20 years ago he'd have killed a man for being rude
& doing a 1st Amendment audit recording.
He lamented that he can't do that anymore. The
other cops agreed. So we've some progress.

 

[Revoltingest]

My son was permanently maimed by a K9. I wish I had told him this prior.

Dang.
I've had "the talk" with my kids.
We've been lucky....so far.