Why does trump deserve a chance when Obama wasn't given one?

[Iti oj]

Because we are rational civilized adults.

We have to end this cycle of stupidity and understand any relationships with extreme differences can only exist with compromises.

Giving Trump a chance is not the same as accepting everything he does with blind faith. We still have the right to criticize him in a civil logical manner. If he fails, which is subjective in itself, then go after him. If he succeeds then at least give him some props.

Well said. I'll respond more latter.

 

[BSM1]

It was brought by an aid, and Hillary never supported his accusation. If my memory is correct, he was dismissed from the staff.

Beside the point. Of course Hillary would deny knowledge of this (seems to be her forte), but the damage was done; or at least the Clinton camp was hoping if was done.

 

[metis]

Beside the point. Of course Hillary would deny knowledge of this (seems to be her forte),...

That's a rather bizarre response, and you should know why.

 

[Mister Emu]

Obama wasn't given a chance

The American people gave Obama even more of a chance than Trump, Obama started office with a super majority in congress. There is no one but Obama to blame that he took that chance and drove the Democratic party into the ground.

 

[esmith]

Simple answer to a simple question
Because President-elect Trump at least knows what he is doing

 

[metis]

The American people gave Obama even more of a chance than Trump, Obama started office with a super majority in congress. There is no one but Obama to blame that he took that chance and drove the Democratic party into the ground.

The reality is quite different if one studies the facts.

What we have been seeing here is much the same kind of societal temper-tantrum that we see happening in Europe, and it is more caused by job insecurity than any other factor, which has been a gradual occurrence over the last four decades. However, as compared to the Europeans, the U.S. has made a good recovery, and even the average American wage has now gone up over the last two years, and we have not suffered a decline in growth since coming out of the Great Recession. Our u.e. rate is now under 5% versus the 10% it was when Obama took office, and the stock market has almost tripled since he took office.

 

[Mister Emu]

The reality is quite different if one studies the facts.

Oh, do tell how the facts show a reality where the Democratic party isn't on the mat.

What we have been seeing here is much the same kind of societal temper-tantrum that we see happening in Europe, and it is more caused by job insecurity than any other factor, which has been a gradual occurrence over the last four decades. However, as compared to the Europeans, the U.S. has made a good recovery, and even the average American wage has now gone up over the last two years, and we have not suffered a decline in growth since coming out of the Great Recession. Our u.e. rate is now under 5% versus the 10% it was when Obama took office, and the stock market has almost tripled since he took office.

None of that, even if accurate, is relevant to the state of the Democratic party.

 

[tytlyf]

Obama wasn't working with the leaders of Russia and hiring hackers to win an election. Don't even need to get into all the russian coincidences throughout his entire campaign.

 

[esmith]

Obama wasn't working with the leaders of Russia and hiring hackers to win an election. Don't even need to get into all the russian coincidences throughout his entire campaign.

Got proof that he was or wasn't? Obviously you are making a reference to President-elect Trump so I will ask the same question. Do you have proof of that charge?
Therefore suggest you refrain from making statements that you have no proof. I have no problem with you preceding or following up your statement with "In my opinion".
Get over it your side has lost and your progressive ideals are just about to be flushed into the sewer where they belong ......IMO

 

[buddhist]

Perhaps when two wrongs make a right, he won't deserve better -- but until then, democracy can only survive if those living under it behave according to democratic principles. It wouldn't take a lot, actually, to throttle the life out of it. Don't let that happen. For better or worse, Trump was duly elected according to the rules. And that's that!

If it was a Democracy, Hillary would be in office; but this is a Republic, and yes, Trump was elected under that system.

0bama was given 8 years; Trump hasn't had one day in office yet - we have yet to see what he accomplishes.

 

[metis]

Oh, do tell how the facts show a reality where the Democratic party isn't on the mat.

I didn't say it wasn't.

None of that, even if accurate, is relevant to the state of the Democratic party.

To a large extent, the party lost it's way by taking the labor vote for granted. If they had gone with Bernie, the surveys indicate that he would have won very handily.

Secondly, remember that even though Hillary lost, she won the popular vote by almost 3 million, plus she was without a doubt a "flawed" candidate.

To put it is short terms, the death of the Democratic Party is premature.

 

[Mister Emu]

I didn't say it wasn't.

You said the reality was quite different than a party taken from complete control to the dirt under Obama's leadership if one studies the facts.

To a large extent, the party lost it's way by taking the labor vote for granted.

They never thought that a pro-worker Republican would come to challenge them, that all they had to do was be marginally better than Reagan republicans. Well a Republican that ran on a worker's platform came and socked em.

If they had gone with Bernie, the surveys indicate that he would have won very handily.

I doubt Bernie would have fared all that much better (surveys were clearly in many states unreliable). The American worker doesn't want socialized aid, they want jobs that provide gainful employment and that they can be proud of.

To put it is short terms, the death of the Democratic Party is premature.

Of course, they aren't dead. They do need to figure out where to go from here. Whether they pull hard left and abandon the workers' party image for progressivism or come back to the working class base will be an interesting fight.

 

[Revoltingest]

T . Our u.e. rate is now under 5% versus the 10% it was when Obama took office, and the stock market has almost tripled since he took office.

Consider how the cited unemployment rate is calculated.
The long term unemployed aren't included.
The underemployed aren't counted either.
What’s the ‘Real’ Jobless Rate?
Any claims about improvement should examine all measures of unemployment.

Know why stock prices are so high?
It's because competing investments, eg, bonds, CDs have record low interest rates.
This lowers the expected rate of return, which for a given cash flow, increases the price.
It's not a good measure of economic health at all.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Beside the point. Of course Hillary would deny knowledge of this (seems to be her forte), but the damage was done; or at least the Clinton camp was hoping if was done.

Clinton didn't perpetuate the lie for the following 5 years. Trump did.

 

[Wu Wei]

Obama wasn't given a chance, why does Trump deserve one? Republican representatives said making him a 1 term President was there number 1 job. Nothing but obstructionism during his 8 years. Rw media calling him a secret Muslim, the birther movement and dozens of other fake attacks.

Why does Trump deserve better?

Because 2 wrongs do not make a right and obstructionism may be good for a political party but it is damn awful for a country and the real live people in it.

It should not have happened then and it should not happen now

 

[BSM1]

Clinton didn't perpetuate the lie for the following 5 years. Trump did.

DUH! Clinton started the lie (or at least had one of her minions start it).

 

[metis]

You said the reality was quite different than a party taken from complete control to the dirt under Obama's leadership if one studies the facts.

If you check back to what I commented on, it was your response that it was Obama who basically killed the party whereas it's quite clear that it was not him but a series of other factors. Obama's approval rating would have made him president for the 3rd term had he been able to run.

I doubt Bernie would have fared all that much better (surveys were clearly in many states unreliable). The American worker doesn't want socialized aid, they want jobs that provide gainful employment and that they can be proud of.

You are incorrect on a couple of different counts here. One is that every single poll taken had Bernie being much more popular that Trump, so even if one ignores one or two polls, there are others. The polls taken just prior to the election failed in large part because of a sudden shift that took place, and there's ample reason to believe that Comey's announcement at the least fed into that. A mere shift of around 150,000 votes over three states would have given Hillary the election.

As far as "socialized aid" is concerned, overwhelmingly the American public supports Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and the United States Armed Services, all of which are "socialized aid" programs of various types. Here in the States we have what is called a "mixed economy", which is a blending of capitalistic and socialistic programs.

 

[metis]

DUH! Clinton started the lie (or at least had one of her minions start it).

If you are so worried about lying, then why did you and do you support Trump?

 

[BSM1]

If you are so worried about lying, then why did you and do you support Trump?

Knowing who you seem to support were you able to keep a straight face when you posted this deflection?

 

[metis]

Knowing who you seem to support were you able to keep a straight face when you posted this deflection?

And who did I supposedly support, or did you forget?